bogwarrior

I dont disagree with you , i didnt mean to confer status of freedom fighters on Hezbollah. What i meant is that its easy to see the bigger picture here and that is that Isreal is keeping going because its fighting a proxy war for the US as much as for itself. The much talked about "peace enforcer " [ peace keeping force with teeth ] force ... I doubt very much Spain , Ireland or any " neutral " country will be sending in troops .. no I would wager much it will be US troops who will go in there again. Atznar , Spains president learned his lesson when uncerimounisly dumped out of office in the election after getting too pally with Bush over Iraq. His party suffered the worst defeat in its history and it was obvious this was a backlash for Spanish troops becoming embroiled in the US agenda. The EU today said it wouldnt be sending troops unless the dispute over lands was resolved. But at the same time the failure to differentiate between civilian and military targets is a war crime. Telling civilians to leave then hammering them on the road is a moral crime if not a war crime. Using cluster munitions in a civilian area is a war crime. Period. I tend to take the word of the likes of Jan Egerland the UN dude who spent some time walking around Beiruit. Even if this is Hezbollahs strategy all Isreal is doing is playing into their hands and two wrongs do not make a right. Responding to a terrorist organisation by behaving like terrorists [ inflicting terror on a civilian population ] is not the way forward. Put another way, the Israelis must have been desperate over the last three weeks to show that what they were doing was worth it and they havent been able to do that. They presumably used aerial intel to figure out there was a rocket lauch from the area of that "civilian bomb shelter" in Qana.. lets see the footage. Those same drones ( i believe ) that are flown by remote control carry small missiles .. why not fire on the rocket launcher live as the video is beamed back to the operator. A rocket launcher is the size of an ice cream truck yet requires thousand pound bombs over an area the size of a football pitch to destroy. That or cluster munitions which are turnng up in Beiruit. They are going in on the ground now having seen what was what was obvious from the beginning. So now Israe, weeks later , finally quits foaming at the mouth and having vented its anger on a largely civilian grouping / countries infrastructure is thinking logically and trying to root out the cancer instead of killing the body. Lets wait and see how much of South Lebanon is left when they have finished. There are few structures left and to terrorize a populace you dont have to destroy everything , just leave them stranded in their homes and wonder if todays the day a message from Israel will come crashing through their roof. I am not in favour of the eradication of the jewish state and do not condone rocket attacks. They are a dispicable act. I think Hezbollah under estimated the response in going for the soldiers but previously the strategy did work for them and its still working for Hamass in south Lebanon. There aim , in my view was to get some of their own men released in an exchange. However the abduction of troops in Gaza in particular in my view is fair game. Especially when they have a habit of bulldozing homes when they arrive in "refugee" camps. As for the countries calling for a ceasefire, they have the savvy to know this isnt achieving anything. The core issue is not being resolved and a war of attrition will follow. The US recognised this and left Lebanon once already. So here we are , at the beginning of the cycle again. "Blairy" is on the right path with his idea of renaissance of " policy in the middle east "..lets see if he has some balls.. I also doubt very much that will happen , they today denied Danish Aid flights safe passage into Beiruit airport even though there is no military reason for doing so. They have aerial supremacy so could very easily stop any unwanted traffic in Beirut international. What is a sustainable cease fire ?

So what do petrol station , ambulances, many 1000´s of homes well out of the Katyushas firing range , fleeing civilians, beiruit and other cities have to do with it. The Isrealies are NOT bombing Hezbollah they are bombing a nation and a people. You are to an extent correct in your analysis of the Launch strategy from what this guy would label a " terrorist organisation " but only an idiot could mistake what Isreal are doing as a response to Hezbollah attacks. Isreal are intent on a lot more than destroying Hezbollah.. And Israel didnt stop its bombardment, it tricked more civilians out onto the impassible streets and then they changed their mind and bombed moving cars some more. Isreal is defending what is not morally defensible. Given the territory a blanket bombing of a target area wont work they need to go in and "fight"..only then do they have the possibility of achieving their aim there. Any general without a bias would know that. On the brink of a humanitarian crisis later, a country bombed back to the stone ages , millions displaced, tens of thousands of lives destroyed , nearly a thousand mostly women and children " cleansed " later do they recognise this..come off it. They must have known their first three weeks in an " air battle " would have been about as useful to their aim as a chocolate teapot. As for telling the people to leave... hah ! What a joke , no roads , no fuel , go where .. Beiruit ?? go on the roads .. get bombed some more... And soon they will wonder why Hezbollah is bigger than ever with more home grown applicants and stronger support and well get to watch it all again in a few years... right ? The failure of Israel to differentiate between civilian and military targets is a war crime.. but there will be no trial.

Would it not be more fair to say that the US went into Iraq to ensure " stability " [ read : make sure our oil supply is good ] in the region . Of course the tons and tons of weapons of mass destruction discovered did away with that theory .. what am i talking about.

Well I cant say i really understand what they are doing now. The minister for defence just got his ass kicked on a BBC live interview: He said that today they were " only bombing " rocket launch sites and " only bombing " likely Hezbollah targets... So the BBC anchor asked the obvious question what were you doing yesterday and the day before... He said in regards to civilian movements they would be free to move for a 24 hour period but Isreal still reserved the right to bomb anything it felt was involved with Hezbollah ( again i think isnt that what they have been " claiming " to do all along ? ) The anchor said that he was " sure the UN and his viewers would make up their own mind on what he had just said ". In a round about way i read it as , ok now were really doing what we said we were doing ... but now we really mean it . I think the fact that the US is supporting this is almost irrelevant , the Isreali governement told the US yesterday it would stop to allow civilians to leave and today rolled back on its word pretty much as soon as the US state dept had finished answering questions in the press conference. They have also been bombing Lebanon again which has no direct link to the rocket launches.

yes kill them all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm Where is the pictures of militants being dug out of the rubble , or secondary explosions from the onboard video from israeli jets , where are the reports showing rockets being lauched from inside these villages ? Any i have seen have come from the country side.. tell them [ civilians ] to leave.. bomb them in their cars [as they try to leave ]... they stay.. well then they must be terrorists. Yes the women are a breeding hezbollah babies and well the babies,, they are really baby bombers.. as soon as they can walk .. you watch .. their coming across the borders with bombs in their nappies.. Isreal and the US are scoring own goal after own goal and periodically wonder why they lose the game.. If you want to get rid of Hezbollah go in and get your hands dirty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_battle_for_south_lebanon/html/1.stm

Isreal doesnt want to stop, i dont think they care that this has made it much more difficult to send in a peacekeeping force. It does go to show that they are in a frenzied state.. hit anything that moves. According to Israeli Army radio this morning everything in South Lebanon is fair game now including civilians. In other countries George Bush would be calling it ethnic cleansing.. ( assuming there was an American interest in the region ) Anyway back on track I watched a BBC report of a cement truck getting smashed.. the reporter said that perhaps it looked like a missile launcher from the air. I dont know the weaponry .. but it seems odd that you can drop a bomb accurately but not actually see what it is your bombing very clearly from the air..

Sorry how arrogant of me to speak for europeans, its just me , my opinion. You are correct though i dont know the ins and outs of the Dan Rather case , only what my American friends tell me here and only that a couple of European / Russian politicians poked fun at Bush for it ( so George if your watching im sorry your a stand up guy ). Anyhow , i think we can agree .. that its harder to have an objective debate in the American media as the networks are galvanised along party lines, which was my point really. And that in the likes of the UK people are fortunate to have a media organisations that are visbily more seperate from the "Agenda".. this has led to a completley different tone / flavour of reporting on middle eastern events.

Hi Rush, I dont know you or your politics ..so .. CNN / NBC / ABC ..whatever your "flavour" is. When i was in florida I listened a lot to local radio. More often than not the opposition was described as "they", " they want to do this to you ".. balanced journalism right ?? . I mean you have a belief and you will find a station / paper / radio that "pumps" it out without question. Subtly this could be the major networks no ?? I do not believe this is so here in many EU states. Particularily in times of crisis media are less likely to fall into line with " stereotypical views ".. RTE in Ireland , the BBC in the UK , TV1 in Spain look at for / against etc. Dan Rather it seems to "us in Europe" questioned the " official line " and eventually his station fired him under heavy pressure from the Bush Administration. If anything in Ireland / Spain / UK its a bit of a " sport " questioning politics.. Two films i think youll enjoy are " V is for Vendetta " and "Good night and good luck "

Yup, Cheneys tactic was great " politics", dont get me wrong ... but many American friends here in Madrid didnt have their postal votes counted and dont know why, many " African Americans " were not allowed to vote because they had a criminal record. In Europe when the system is geared towards allowing people who would vote for you vote and discounting the vote against you .. well we call that rigging .. which i call fraud.. but in any case.. your right, just keep watching CNN and ask no questions.

Hi, Somebody mentioned in an earlier posting about news channels catering for " segments ". This gave me the impression that the american tv stations in particular wouldnt like to be unpopular e.g. making a case for Gay Marraige ( I use that as this is how Bush managed to steal the election if we ignore the fraud ). Certainly the BBC world which i watch here in Spain cant be described as " way more neutral " in its potrayal " of Middle eastern events but it does question the American stance a lot more with many anchors suggesting that America must surely be " embarressed in private " at Israels actions. American press ( CNN and new york times online for me ) seem more pro their government positions with less awkward questions being asked. The biggest thing that struck me is the way American people seem to be " fed " the news. I started to feel uncormfortable watching CNN after a while as it felt a bit like watching an American football game. " CNN live from everywhere " ..lots of graphics , plenty of use of sentances like .. " live to the action in Beirut " .. The " gloss " on " live news " was even coreographed with music playing in the background .things like the soundtrack to a " few good men " playing to images of Israelis shelling a hillside on the border etc. Its like a video game or something , if youve seen it you know what i mean.. CNN were great for showing images of a destoyed Beiruit but not showing images that the BBC routinely show outlining the real and " civilian " cost.. Might have been a different story if America was against the war ? This being seperate to the amount of coverage. Maybe its because politics in America owns / controls the networks which become their puppets ( e.g why Dan Rather got fired ) but their appears to be a lot less opinion against political and government decisions and policies. Its only in hindsight that the policy is clearly examined.. I mean did the US not envisage the civil war unfolding in Iraq ....nope too busy to have debate in the media swallowing / being fed the WMD crap ?? Many didnt know where it was , what the regional issues were but felt in the end we should " squash em " cos their " bad guys ". If Blair cant answer a question or looks lost a BBC reporter is not afraid to say " he looks lost as to how to answer that question. Not so with Bush, theres nice editing and a token gesture to "critics".. The BBC like the american networks reports the positions of government and relays the speech some spokesperson gives but goes much further...and questions the validity of whats being said. Its not from a belief that the government are wrong in the UK , just that in the media a much more open " debate " exists.. a reflection perhaps of a much more healthy democracy the health of which is affected / reflected in the nature and imparitiality of its media.

Hi , Yes in Europe its pretty straight forward with left , right wing and people in the middle ground. But ive seen people in the US refer to NEO conservatives and dont really know what the politics of this " grouping " is.

Who are the powerful ones in the US, sorry for my ignorance .. i probably have them pigeonholed but just not under the right " label "

Quote>We are losing fine men there on almost a daily basis, fighting your >war. We haven't forgotten who the true culprits of 9/11 were. That being the US who trained, sponsored , at one point armed and supported Bin Laden for quite a number of years and then when it was no longer convenient...

Well thank God bush is in charge... hes not that extreme.

I think the US would rather see Isreal and some of the more moderate states do its dirty work. Many middle eastern countries themselves are becoming alarmed at the growing regional power of Iran and themselves dont wish to see Iran develop a nuclear capability. So at a government/ " Regime " level in the middle east it would be acceptable to some countries . However the general population of those same states such as Suadi / Egypt wouldnt stomach it. While on one hand many Middle eastern governements might fear a " regime change " so would look to collaborate in some way ( as they are doing now with their " silence " ref Lebanon ) they would not risk civil unrest/ backlash and not do anything. Shia and Sunni would unite against the US. Its better for the US for Shia / Sunni to be killing each other as opposed to fighting the US together.. So who will attack Iran ? Funnily enough Bush might have scored an own goal imposing a regime change ....sorry i do mean "democracy" in Iraq. Hes managed not only to increase the daily death tool in Iraq hugely but now has nobody but the Israelis to fight a proxy war.. (that and he has not knowing the region created a Sunni super middle east ) . Will Israel go after Iran , sponsor of Hezbolah ?? They might send a few cruise missiles into Iranian nuclear installations but i doubt they would get away with much more without a Sunni/ Shia backlash across the middle east. Then of course youd also be pissing of the chineese who might take a more proactive role in weapons supply like the russians in the 80s.. Putin is also the only guy talking to the Iranians,, would he support them .. hes winding the clock back re freedom of press / speech at home ,, would he help the Iranians with arms ?? The US would be very stupid to attack Iran.

i dont think its so much invaded them as sent troops in to support them from an Extremist Militia.. As for what the US does.. didnt it try to sort out Mogadishu and eventually realise that short of carpet bombing the " problem " it wasnt going to win.. Id not be surprised if US supplied weapons end up in Ethiopia ?

Hello, Well one assumes that its up to me to set the record straight then... 1200am We were informed that potentially our proposed course of action was not the correct way of dealing with things. We decided to inform our client that we should explore alternative courses of action which included flying Andy and one other staff permanent staff member to the UK ( today or tommorrow ) with all the the documentation to have his membership of the BPA renewed and to sort this out within a reasonable time scale. We again offerred a day ( this time ) of skydiving to our client in the UK at a dropzone of his choice as an alternate means amongst others of solving the single mistake already discussed . We have been in touch constantly with our client throught the last number of days on this matter and regret now due to continued posting that we chose to be clear whilst awaiting / seeking clarification on what we had been told. We told our client that we were continuing to work on his behalf to resolve the matter promptly. 1215am When working directly with a senior figure within the BPA head office , the clarification was that we were in fact doing things correctly that our client would be in posession of the BPA license.In the intervening moments even though we told our client that we were still working on the matter we recieved emails in various languages from our client. This after asking for some leeway to see what was the difficulty. 1220am client is informed of same. Client is informed of a positive result, that he may relax. That our interpretation of the manual was correct that form was being couriered at our expense direct to the Memberhship services office of the BPA and that he would have his license within days. 1800pm No update made original post of client not edited therefore we set the record straight. Since we were informed of the problem we worked towards a resoloution which has come about very quickly given the geographic distance involved. We do regret this but ultimatley our client must respect the fact that we / I personally made a cock up which we worked very hard to resolve. We are not superhuman but worked hard to get this sorted. We are a company comitted to the highest of training standards and it is for this reason that 98% ( if we look statistically at the last year ) of our clients are now happily in posession of their A license assuming they applied for one. We hope in a few days this record will be 100% . All of our team to include Andy Gregory ( the instructor i incorrectly had complete the documentation ) will be in a position to sign the form correctly within the processing time of the BPA. The instructors here should not have their name tarnished for what was my error. On a more positive note , if you wish to see us in action we suggest you tune into the ITV1/2 series of Ozbournes: Adrenalin Junkies on the last Saturday in September. The anticipated audience is 17 million and We were selected for the training for the Finale of the series which is being shot right now with the Ozbornes and friends completing our AFF training and Canopy handling course ( CH1 and beyond ) . They will depart Spain to jump directly from the same flight that tranpsports them to the UK on friday into London Parachute School. We will post the diary when allowed do so and have invited Jack to post in the forum.. Pics should be on our website tonight. We once again wish to apologize to our client and as discussed will work with him untill he has recieved the A license from the BPA, which is according toa senior full time figure in the Authority a matter of a few days. Ultimatley the CH1 qualification is a basic one and we see no reason why a student should not be able to fly their canopy safely to land within a reasonable distance of a target therefore we work in this manner with them on their AFF and solo jumps. This being beyond that required by the ops manual. Regards David Cowman FFU Client Care http://www.freefalluniversity.co.uk http://forum.freefallu.com

Hi Wayne, Nobody said that this was the only soloution we could offer and . I was merely adding to the record that we did offer / this was the soloution we offered you before you told us you didnt want to hear from us again ( which was a bit of a surprise as you two days earlier booked an FS course with me ) . All of this late on friday evening. Regrettably the one you were "pressing" for was not one we could legally do. ...In no uncertain terms. My apology for my goof was a matter of private record and here i added it to the public record. I think you are misinformed or misintrepreted a number of items/ regs. I will check with colleagues / BPA directly tommorrow ( today being Sunday and a day off ) .. Now would not as you imagine be a good time to make another mistake ..so as I said I will be in touch ( by 5pm tommorrow ). I am as I said certain we can resolve this quickly for you and without you being caused further distress. David Cowman Client Care Freefall Uni.

Hi Wayne, Just to reiterate the soloution offered you during the course of several conversations on the topic. Go to our London associated dropzone as we had originally agreed at the same time as we helped you prepare your application and have the CH1 documentation signed. As I had said we were happy to cover all your fuel costs for this trip . To make sure that you did not find the trip completeley pointless we did also offer to have a jump ticket in the manifest for you so that you would skydive at least once that day for free ( on us ). Sometimes Wayne people make mistakes and I made one... had you given me the opportunity to work on your behalf the way I knew would have been very smooth.. We would have worked in the background as we have done for numerous other clients who are now BPA A,B,C and D license holders. Myself and the rest of the team wish you enjoyment with your skydives, as I said to you , your in air skills are well above average for the jumps. and yes, you once again have my apology for my mistake. David Cowman Client Care FFU

Is part of the problem the compression ( or lack of it ) people use when uploading their video ?

Hi Wayne, We look forward to meeting you at the Freefall University. Firstly it is concievable that we can get you to your A license. I have sent you onwards references to read for the USPA A license you are looking for. That being said , you do not need to have achieved the license but passed the AFF course at the Freefall Uni to be allowed to skydive solo in the US. Your logbook will have all the contact details for the admin office on the DZ so the DZ in Vegas can contact us to verify the information in the logbook ( alhough its rare that they would consider the need to do so ). In regards to your DVD / VHS we use PAL and the US is NTSC . We will look at a way of encoding the DVD in NTSC for you also so that it can easily be played there. Thirdly we will establish communications proactivley with the DZ you intend to jump at and have your personal trainer here , talk with the head honcho over there. Ultimatley as our dropzone in Ocana is affiliated to the United States Parachute Association , i dont see that there is any problem to jump there based on our qualification and think we may being a touch overkill on the issue of jumping in the US. my advise is to sit back , relax and look forward to the ride of your life ! Best wishes and Blue skies, David , Sam and Paula Freefall University Ocana http://www.freefalluniversity.co.uk tel 0207 0600 174

I was doing my first DRP from a dangle exit of the 182 at the IPC. I was so concentrated on getting everything right.... There was my jm and one of his friends in the plane , they were going to watch me and then go on to altitude. I climed out as normal , looked in the door at everybody looking at me , got the go.. took a look around and witout letting go of the strut started counting..1 thousand 2 thousand, as i was about to do the dummy pull i realised i was still hanging onto to the strut.. looked back in the door and the jm and his buddies and the pilot are looking at me in stitches of laughter... Started again and managed to get the DRP so i passed the jump..

Toni, I think that may be harsh to anybody offering a BASE course commercially or otherwise, i refer to the sentiment expressed that its only potential jumpers that people like you " are not willing to take " who end up on commerical course. For example we could get an AFF student here who was turned away elsewhere , this could happen.. perhaps though we too would identify them as a person best suited to golf.. I have also seen people " ejected " of their BASE course. Im surprised that anybody stays on their course to be honest as they , go , outwardly it seems, to lenghts to discourage people before they even get here... talking about the dangers etc. etc. As soon as they get here , its horror video after horror video,, im sure this will over time weed out non suitable candidates aswell.. Thus lets set aside the aspertion that poeple who would do commercial courses take anybody, especially so with BASE Euphoria. After hundreds of jumps i see Paula as being as enthusistic and cautious about the sport. Ill leave it to former customers to spread the good word about their courses. As an outsider to BASE i dont claim to know much about it and the bond that you refer to , but i do know this. There are increasing numbers wanting to try it , and in my time in Skydiving i have seen many people do really stupid things in BASE .. Such as travel to sites they know on their own and jump ..thier first jump ?? I recall getting a text at 7am from France saying " im at the top of ****** , about to do my first BASE if i dont text you in fifteen minutes call an ambulance " ,, this guy made it despute not even having a Buddy. I think it better that people do the course with seasoned jumpers ( rather than another guy I saw do one with somebody who had 20 BASE , a low bridge pilot chute assist ). Speaking very generally , i think these courses are good for your sport , i am assuming that the BASE community wants to expand of course. This may not be your point of view.

That was quick! Ok cool , misunderstood your post.