PiLFy

"Got a link to this story? Understood that there are unscrupulous people in all businesses; but this sounds a bit over the top. Did they really prove (or have solid evidence) that a number of employees were in a conspiracy to fabricate denial reasons; or is that the accusation generated by you based on one anecdotal occurence?" Hi Pirana, I'm pretty wasted from work tonight, but I'll try to find it for you. I assure you this story, despite being quite over the top, is completely true. The carrier was allowed to deny any wrong doing. While simultaneously agreeing to pay about 42 mill, plus instituting policy measures to blah, blah, blah. There is nothing anecdotal about it. They were caught. They were fined. I think it was about seven years ago. I hope I find it tonight for you. Edit: Here's other evidence of those policies: http://attorneypages.com/hot/health-net-insurance-cancellation.htm http://attorneypages.com/hot/la-city-attorney-sues-blue-cross.htm http://attorneypages.com/hot/blue-cross-pays-fine-offers-new-coverage.htm http://attorneypages.com/hot/health-net-lawsuit.htm I'm still looking for that specific case. I'm finding all sorts of other carnage along the way. I'm running out of gas, fast. Do we have any paralegals here? I'm having a hard time trying to find that specific case.

"Then man up and accept the potential consequences of your actions." This is a Smart_Butt comment that doesn't deserve a decent reply. As a student jumper who is keenly aware of his lack of knowledge/experience. Not to mention the fact that I started skydiving being VERY afraid of heights. I "Man Up" every time I pop out @14K'. You don't know me, sir. You've no idea how responsibly I live my life. Not too many people in this country wouldn't fear being hit w/$100K in debt. I pay my insurance premiums on time, every time. If I break a leg or two one day skydiving, or bicycling/jogging/doing the laundry @home/WHATEVER...? They can honor their part of the deal, & pay my medical bills (@their ridiculously discounted insurance company rates. Not the much higher rates for the Uninsured). I've got a story for you, billy. There's an instructor @my home DZ. He's a nasty, surly pr*ck. He saunters around like he's a true Sky_God. He has >30 years of experience. He's been nasty to me from day one. It's a large DZ, & we don't have two words for each other. It was pointed out to me that he has a wealth of experience. It doesn't matter. W/his 'tude? I don't want a thing from him. There are other equally experienced instructors there who have the right motivations for teaching. That jackwagon does not. This begs the question, billy. What are your motivations in posting an inflammatory quip like that? Are you trying to give back to the sport by teaching the newer jumpers? Is your concern to try your darnedest to help keep us from getting hurt? Or, do you enjoy posting surly comments while thumping your Sky_God chest?

So, say you have a car you want to rent out to people. If they want to drive it around town, you charge them $20 a day. If they want to drive it out of town, you charge them $30 a day. If they want to drive it out of state, you charge them $40 a day. If they want to drive to Mexico, you tell them, no deal, you can't rent my car. Because if something goes wrong with the car in town, it's easier to deal with. Out of town, a little harder. Out of state, a little harder still. Out of the country, a nightmare. So you want to be compensated extra for the extra risks, or in some cases, don't want to incur the risk at all. That okay? ___________________________________________________ **That's a poor analogy. I can go to several places in just about any town around here, & rent a car. If I don't like one rental place's pricing structures for whatever reason? I can simply walk down the street a bit. The reputable rental places are all closely matched in pricing. In a pinch. The cheaper ( = older cars) rentals are always there, as well. If I don't like any of their prices? I can simply lease a car by the month. It'll be cheaper, & I can do whatever I please within the mileage restriction. When working for companies. One is typically offered two to three choices for health coverage. You pick your best fit. The freedom to simply buy elsewhere is far more restricted. Simply walking down the street to another health insurer will increase my premiums about 10X. That's substantially more than a 10-20% difference. ___________________________________________________ If so, why are you restricting your renters' perfectly legal activities? Some company has a health insurance plan. They make you a deal: pay us $100 a month, and if you get hurt doing anything except for X, Y, and Z, we'll pay for your medical bills up to $100,000. You can say, that's ridiculous, I refuse to give you $100 if you won't let me do X, Y, and Z. In which case maybe they say, okay, give me $250 a month, and you can do X, Y, and Z. Or maybe they say, okay, well, thanks for looking, but looks like we don't agree on terms, so don't pay me, and I won't cover you. But why is it right to say okay, I agree to your terms, and then lie about doing X, Y, or Z? "...your renters' perfectly legal activities?" **Perfectly legal activities? There is much that can be said about the law. A good part of which is neither ethical, nor just. Just because their buddies in the capital passed a law for them. That doesn't make it right. I remember a time around twenty five years ago. A lot of big companies were starting to exclude any employees who rode a motorcycle from their health plans. The trend was beginning to take hold. The backlash from the tens of thousands of riders in each state forced the powers that be to back down. Today, that type of discrimination is virtually unheard of in motorcycling. USPA only has about 32K members. Insurers are guilty of doing far worse to people than discriminating against 32K out of 300+ million Americans. The arguments could go on ad-nauseum from both sides of this. Over forty thousand people die every year on American roads. How many thousands of ER visits occur each year from weekend warrior' injuries (softball/volleyball/frisbee/etc...)? The insurers can't discriminate against those claims, but they are trying to do that against our infinitely smaller minority. The legal dept.s for the insurers would argue all day, hiding behind such convenient legalities. Like the man said: "I know it when I see it." You can be seriously injured or killed any number of ways w/o even leaving your home. The playing field is far from level on this. The insurers have too great of a financial advantage. Just because some dweebs in a board room are ignorant of, &/or afraid of skydiving. That doesn't give them the right to discriminate. I could have brought this exchange into the political realm. However, I learned a long time ago to never discuss politics or religion w/strangers. They're far too polarizing. We all want to be friends here, right? I'm suuure you wouldn't want to argue about it...

How are you going to explain a ladder in the middle of a DZ landing area, while wearing an inflated parachute that the EMTs have to cut off of you? "Obviously in the case of needing ambulance, and something that extreme, lying wouldn't be the way to go. I was more thinking out loud for cases such as broken and sprained ankles, minor injuries, etc."

No one's telling you that you can't participate. They're being very up-front about what the consequences are if you do choose to participate and get hurt. Listen, I get the "insurance companies are evil" mentality. Insurance companies have done some shitty stuff to people. But trying to say that they're infringing on your personal liberties ... nope. No one's telling you what to do. It's like when Dr. Laura said she quit her radio show so she could "take her First Amendment rights back." News flash, sweetie, just because advertisers didn't like your particular exercise of your first amendment rights and chose not to do business with your network doesn't mean you lost those rights. It just means you didn't like the consequences of exercising those rights. Big difference. A simple femur fracture can easily run about $60K w/o any major complications. Throw in a nosocomial infection, & it will go north of $100K real quick. By your logic. You're saying that holding a $100K anvil over someone's head isn't a form of coercion. You have extra bundles of $100K sitting around the attic, do you? Most of us don't. Someone else already mentioned the motorcycling lobby regarding similar discrimination. I've been riding for almost thirty years. I remember employers/insurers who discriminated against people who legally chose to ride a motorcycle. USPA doesn't have as much clout, but it's the exact same principle. Do we not agree on that much? I can't even tell you who Dr.Laura is. I don't watch TV.

Hi Inigo, Let me tell you a couple of stories, OK? A fellow student I met in the ground class had been hurt the prior year. He panicked on landing in windy conditions, & flared too early. Result? He went up to about 35', & stalled right over a runway... Ouch. It could have been worse. He only broke a bone in his foot, plus a few toes. Treatment only involved X-rays & taping his toes together. He drove himself to the ER. The bill was for over $7K, & his insurer denied coverage for skydiving injuries. The next time he gets hurt? He's falling off the roof while cleaning gutters... There was a lawsuit lost by a California BC/BS. They were structuring their bonuses on how many people their employees managed to throw into the abyss. Briefly, insured people would get a catastrophic diagnosis, such as cancer. The BC/BS employees would trump up some bogus excuse, & revoke coverage. They would then do everything in their power to NOT straighten it out. Stress will kill someone much faster when fighting such a disease. The Insurers know this. When the patients die while still trying to get their coverage reinstated? The carrier saves money. It's all they care about. The woman who won that suit was in the vast minority. She had been diagnosed w/breast cancer. After two rounds of chemo, they cut her off. She was lucky enough to survive the stresses of the illness & the rest of her treatments. She lost her marriage, her house...everything. She had also accrued something like $300K in medical debts. I'm not making this up, or embellishing it in any way. It's a matter of public record. That's just one example. The insurance industry is a dirty industry, make no mistake. I believe the amount awarded was around $42 million. I'll not have anyone tell me what perfectly legal recreational activities I can & cannot participate in. They've absolutely no right to even attempt to circumvent my liberties. You can't defraud a bunch of amoral & repugnant thieves. Some here have told the truth about their skydiving injuries w/o any problems? I'm glad. Their skydiving is now a matter of record. Should their providers one day decide to try what other providers across the street are already doing? They'll have a problem next time. You decide what you're comfortable with, my friend.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3931063;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Hallo IBX, Danke für diese Frage. I'm a student. I'll be interested to read the replies on this. I was about to buy an Audible after my last jump. I'm usually always altitude aware. Recently, I found myself struggling w/a coach jump. Then, I missed the break-off altitude. After break-off? I learned for myself just what a little distraction can do. I lost altitude awareness again during the track. Unbelievable to me, but it happened. I was barely current when I jumped. So, I didn't recognize how low I was by sight. The best part? It turned out that my altimeter had malfunctioned. It had gotten stuck, & was reading about 1,000 feet too high... Yes, we had checked it on the ride up. I asked the coach about which Audible to buy. He said none until I have 100 jumps. I'm holding off on buying an Optima2 for now. I don't want that to ever happen again. The thing is. I didn't want it to happen the first time, either. To me, $200 is cheap insurance, & peace of mind. I haven't asked the instructors about it yet. Is there a SIM recommendation on this? I can fully understand the guide lines for cameras & wingsuits. This one doesn't make a very good argument for me. Is it possible I'll develop slack habits w/my regular altimeter? Yes, it's possible. Slack beats dead in my book, though. I have faith that I'll always pull unless disabled in free fall. I don't trust that I'll throw soon enough to avoid the AAD firing the reserve into my still-opening main. How many jumps before your eyes are calibrated to recognize 4K from 3K?

Hi Wendy, I must beg to differ w/your analogy, my dear. I didn't get to start college until I was 26. I graduated @32. The reasons were purely monetary. I can't believe how long this thread has gone on for. The SIM guide lines are there for a reason. They were put there by instructors w/decades of experience. A couple of my instructors have over thirty years of jump experience a piece. I may be able to teach them a few tricks off the DZ. However, regarding anything skydive-related? Their word is gospel. I would be an absolute fool if I thought I knew better than them. There's always some young pups who don't want to listen. Who think they know better. The Internet makes it very easy to find out what usually happens under those circumstances. Are some of the last thoughts you want to go through you heads "I'm an *sshole. They were all right"??? Lotsa Luck, boys.

R_E_A_L_I_T_Y

??? my 'Gunner' has more 'surface area' than my motorcycle helmet. I have a few hunderd jumps with an open face Bell helmet, never had a problem seeing the handles... There are a couple of reasons motorcycle helmets aren't the 'best' choice these days, but as far as an open faced model, surface area and restricted vision aren't it....and in fact a DOT Snell helmet IS safer regarding hard impacts than a flexible flyer beeper holder. Hi Ed(?), I don't come to this forum to argue. It looks like some here, do. I'm here to learn from those w/much more experience than I. That being said. You may find this old article to be of interest regarding those "Flexible Flyers." For most of my years riding. My helmets had to be Snell certified. Not anymore. Like riding, & jumping out of planes, call it a personal choice.

The helmet pic isn't of a full face, is it? No Sh*T, wise guy...

All I know. Is what they told me when I tried to order. No more than -6.5 correction is possible. You need to see perfectly to hit those lil buggers on the open range. So, I took a pass. You rolled the dice, & it "hmm" worked out for you? I'm happy for you, Dave.

There's another company who offers prescription polycarbonate sunglasses. They offer various styles. I was going to get a pair from them for shooting sporting clays. The wrap around designed eye wear can only correct up to about 6.5 diopters, though. My eyes are worse than that. I'm glad I wear contacts every time I gear up. The thought of cramming $450 worth of glasses under goggles & a helmet isn't pleasant. Good Luck. http://www.opticsplanet.net/wileyx-rx-sunglasses.html

He's talking about full face helmets.

LOL Hey, what he does in the bedroom is none of our business...

Hi, A coupe of things on this. A motorcycle helmet flat will not work in free fall. They're too big, & will catch serious air on the underside. Further, the face shields aren't designed to stay locked w/air forcing them open from inside. I've been riding MCs for almost thirty years, now. As someone else here already said. Don't fool yourself into thinking a more expensive helmet will save you if you face-plant @80MPH. Motorcycle helmets actually need to be more than twice as thick as they are to adequately protect you in severe impacts. It's not how thick/strong the shell is. It's how effectively the padding will decelerate your brain w/o transferring too much energy in the process. A shell that's too hard will actually impede this. It's these factors that make the difference between having a disabling TBI or not. Protecs don't fit my shape head very well. I bought a Benny, & love it. It fits my oval-shaped head perfectly. There's a lot of padding. Plus, I don't have to worry about dinging it up. It's not painted. If you must have some bling. There are deals to be had on factory seconds. You'll find many of them on Ebay. Chuting Star also has used helmets available. Either way, you can score a $200 helmet for about a hundred. Good Luck.

Good Luck w/the move to California, Gators. Just don't drink the tap water. Look what happened to Arnold...

I wish my DZO would read this. OMG, are the RW suits @my DZ obscenely smelly. They remind me of a high school locker room...

Fair warning, TSISK. I made the mistake of wearing tight jeans on my first jump. It was a tandem. When the chute opened. The instructor thought I was screaming in agony because of my hurt back (crashed racing the night before). Not quite...

Hi Absane, Look around this site. You'll find a number of very unhappy former customers. One guy I remember because his suit starting falling apart almost immediately. He had to send it back after only 25-50 jumps. Sure, they took it back, & "Repaired" it. It was worthless inside of another 25 jumps... He didn't bother to send it back again. Once a company treats customers like that? I look elsewhere. Carlos seems like a nice guy, & you trust him? Carlos is the one who did prior customers like that. Not Cool. His suits are only advertised on Ebay, & @half the cost of a real suit, for a reason. On the other hand, Bev suits has a solid rep. Get a basic suit from them for about a hundred dollars more, & be done w/it. Suits come up cheaper here regularly. Why the hurry to get a suit? It's going to be too cold to jump in a couple months anyway. If it was me? I wouldn't give them the business. If only out of principle for how they treated others. If you want to overlook that, & probably throw away $120. I wish you luck. P.S.: Oops, I just took another look @them on Ebay. I thought they only went for about $120. $220 for a suit from someone w/that track record? No Way.

Hi, My $0.02? If they made inferior products, & didn't take care of complaints properly then? Why would you want to do business w/them now? There are plenty of reputable suppliers around.

"Is it that there are more women alive than men at that age?" Bingo.

+1... His terminology needs refinement.

Wait a minute, Catfish. You told us you fell off the roof while cleaning the gutters(?)...