totalwreck

I love this question because it fits in exactly with what I've been thinking about. I am NOT a goal-oriented jumper -- I jump for the pure relaxation of it. There is nothing better than getting out that door to clear your head. For me, it's pure therapy. Sure, I had the goal of getting licensed and I do want to improve some basic skills, but I'm not interested in learning something new on every jump (or even most jumps). I say this with the knowledge that I may get flamed for being unsafe because I'm not constantly pushing to "get better." I consider myself very safe and certainly know my limitations and believe I jump within those. I have enough goal-oriented aspects to my life that I don't want another. (This certainly does not mean that I'm unable to understand folks that are very goal-oriented in their jumping philosophy.) My perspective does cause some confusion at the DZ because I am very happy jumping solo a lot of the time. This, of course, may change because I do only have ~100 jumps, but I cannot foresee becoming hyper-goal-oriented about jumping. But, I know, never say never ...

Here's something else to consider. Determining the risk to your children by your skydiving includes more than just the chances of you bouncing. Parenting is necessarily a time-intensive activity; skydiving can be as well. Being there for your child means being hands-on and actively involved in his/her life. You will have to struggle throughout your child's childhood with finding the right level of time to devote to your jumping, and you may at times be frustrated by the fact that you cannot get to the DZ as often as before. Being a parent is a full-time job, but it will be the best and most important job you'll ever have. (I am not preaching here, nor suggesting that you would sacrifice quality time with your child. I'm just kind of thinking out loud.)

Hey hero -- First, congrats on the soon-to-be tax deduction. Second, I started jumping a couple of years ago when my only child was 7. I thought long and hard about whether I was being irresponsible by jumping when I have a young child. I finally concluded that, yes, I was, but because I convinced myself the risk could be managed somewhat, I talked myself into continuing. So, I am the most cautious skydiver you have ever seen (larger canopy than recommended to me, obsessive packer, land way out in the student field, etc.) and approach the sport with a safety first attitude (as do most jumpers, I think). You can kid yourself into thinking that lots of other parents have risky jobs (cops, firemen, convenience store clerks), but for many (most) of us, this isn't our livelihood, it's just how we have fun. And therefore, it is a discretionary activity, and so must be a personal decision. My wife doesn't like that I jump (even though she bought me my AFF 1 jump), but she knows it makes me happy and she understands that's important. She did, however, make me bump up my life insurance. (She I be worried when she now suggests I go jump?)

The point of this exit is (as I recall) to exit unstable and then regain stability. (The point of AFF is, after all, to make sure you know how to save your life.) For my bomb out, my instructor had me start out all the way at the front of the plane (Otter) and run screaming (he said it was my choice what to scream ... I chose "Oh, SH**************T") to the door and just jump out head first. As mentioned already, it's way fun and you will be surprised how quickly you're on your belly and stable. Have fun.

Great post -- very useful information for someone considering their first rig. Even though the cautionary advice on wing loading to those buying their first rig is very common on this site, I just want to re-emphasize the need to fly a canopy that you can safely land in ALL conditions. My first main was larger than what had been recommended to me (I'm at 1:1 instead of about 1.2:1 as recommended) and boy was I ever glad the first time I had to land in heavy traffic and the first time I landed crosswind . I'm still learning a lot about this canopy and am in no hurry to downsize. That should be the approach for every new jumper .

Hey folks -- The BBC has just posted on their web site results from a poll entitled "50 Things To Do Before You Die" (at http://www.bbc.co.uk/50/destinations/things/). Our favorite activity/passion/obsession/life style/money sink showed up as #6. So, we do on a regular basis what most view as an amazing once-in-a-lifetime experience -- we must be doing something right, eh!?!

hey andy2 & surf4life11 -- wow, this was a good weekend, eh? i finally finished off my A license too! Congrats to you both.

I agree with you. My wife does not jump (and is very unlikely to at any point in the future) so that there would be a parent left if something were to happen to me. So, as you say, the situation is different. If I were a single parent I would probably not jump if I had dependent children for the reasons you discuss. I think you are right -- and remember everyone these are just our personal opinions -- that if you are the sole parent/guardian of young children, you do have an obligation to make damn sure you are around to care for those kids. This is what's known as a risk averse strategy where what you want to insure is that the worst case scenario (i.e., loss of that one parent) does not happen because the result would be so catastrophic to the dependents. And yes, skydiving is different from driving a car, having a dangerous job (although, what if your job IS skydiving?), or crossing the street. For most of us, skydiving is pure recreation and is therefore much more along the lines of discretionary behavior than are the other activities listed above.

You make several good points, and as I've said previously, these are in fact issues I continue to struggle with. Do I consider myself selfish because I, father and husband, jump and plan to continue to do so? Yes, I certainly do agree that I am acting selfishly if the measure of selfishness is that I am increasing the risk of dying or being injured when I don't really need to. But as I've said before, I do believe that the risk can be managed (I know , I know, not eliminated) and I also feel that I am a happier person now that I have started jumping (even my wife says so, albeit quite grudgingly). We all make personal choices that affect other people’s lives, that is impossible to avoid. The right balance between self-fulfillment and responsibility to family is a personal decision, but given recent advances in technology and training in this sport, I do not agree that just because someone jumps they are necessarily imposing an unreasonable burden on their family. But, of course, I am biased. The particular situation you described is somewhat different. I agree that this woman was behaving to the detriment of her children. Let's face it, not only is skydiving risky, it is also expensive and time-consuming. If I had six kids, I don't think I would be able to jump and I make a reasonable salary and a flexible work schedule. (Note: I’m not saying someone with six kids couldn’t jump, I’m just saying that I couldn’t.) We certainly don't know the details of the financial situation of this woman, but you have probably guessed correctly that the money spent on training and jumps could have been used more wisely elsewhere. And here's a personal gripe : I have a hard time with folks who bring their kids to the DZ when they are planning to jump and there is no one else around responsible for those kids. Children should be welcome at DZs (most of the time), but the parent should make sure that the kids remain safe and that that responsibility is not by default placed on whoever is not currently jumping.

Wendy, you make a very good point. The temptation (and sometimes outside pressure) to be at the DZ more than one should is something I am keenly aware of. (Did I mention it's taken me two jump seasons to get to 65 jumps -- OK, let the discussion of the relationship among currency, experience, and safety begin.) My family is first and foremost in my life, and so I limit my jumping to at most a single afternoon per week (when many dads may be out playing golf or fishing with their pals). I'm more than happy to forego time at the DZ to keep the balance in my life even if it means that I'm forever the dorky middle-aged skydiver that's never asked on 8-ways. (Well, I guess I CAN'T remain middle-aged, although I do seem to think I can remain an adolescent forever.)

I'm a new jumper (65 jumps) so I still get some pressure from my wife -- she doesn't exactly ask me to quit, but she makes it clear she doesn't like it. But, that said, she understands that it is my decision and it is something I am going to do. (She did, however, make me increase my life insurance coverage!) Not that long ago I thought long and hard about whether I was being unfair to my son (nine years old) by increasing the risk of him losing his father while he is still young. I can't say that I really came to the conclusion that I am being fair, but I do believe that continuing to participate in an activity that I enjoy so much has got to be good for the overall level of happiness in the entire family. (As I write this, I am struck by how that simply sounds like a rationalization for continuing to jump just because I want to.) I really can't imagine giving it up, but if it caused a significant level of distress to my family, I suppose I would. Here’s another reason (rationalization) why “skydiving is good for my family”: it’s OK to set an example for a child demonstrating that it is reasonable to accept some risks in life to do something you really love, especially if those risks can be managed to some extent. I can tell you that I do think about my responsibilities to my family as I pack and when I was picking out a rig (i.e., larger main than was recommended to me, large reserve, etc.); it also influences what I imagine doing in the future (e.g., no interest in ever doing a hook turn).

Hey Spider - Great minds must think alike -- this is exactly what my Wings rig looks like! What color is your main? Choice 5 is the coolest. (Say, will you buy me one too to go with my rig?)

Hey Chris -- I seem to recall that there is a diagram like you are describing in Dan Poynter's book "Parachuting: The Skydiver's Handbook." I'm at work (oops ... hope the boss ain't online too!) so I can't check, but I think there's one there.

The degree of competition for the student rigs is something that needs to be taken into account. If there are tend to be a lot of students at your DZ on a regular basis, then you may find it difficult to get a hold of a rig some days. One thing that can help is if you know how to pack. I remember when I had just finished AFF but wasn't up to speed on packing, I would see lots of student rigs available but not yet packed. Of course, you could always pay someone to pack one for you, but that adds to the overall expense. Better yet (and not just because it's cheaper) is to learn to pack early on. Good luck, and whatever you decide, have fun!

Hey Casch -- As I'm preparing for the A license quiz too , I put together a little online practice quiz that contains all 158 questions and answers from the eight AFF level A - H quizzes. The quiz is at: http://genbiol.cbs.umn.edu/alicense/ (Note: you will need to have the Shockwave plugin installed for your browser; the plugin is available for free from http://sdc.shockwave.com/shockwave/download/alternates/) Right now the quiz keeps randomly selecting single questions from the pool of 158 until you've grown tired of it. At some point in the future I plan on also having it select random sets of 20 questions to simulate a real quiz. Good luck!

Yep, the slider on my Hornet (new last year) looked huge to me too when I first saw it. But I do think the large size has cleared up issues of hard openings that had been reported on Hornets. My 170 opens up nice and soft. Have fun.

I agree about not needing to psycho pack a Hornet. My Hornet 170 (purchased new) was the first ZP canopy I packed and I was able to handle it just fine from the start. And like the above posts, I've found that it opens sweet simply by folding in the four cells on either side. Good luck -- Hornets are great canopies!

Hey nightcrew -- I ordered the wings/hornet/tempo (+ Cypres) package from Rigs & Things last year as my first rig and LOVE IT! The container looks and fits great (lots of compliments at the DZ) and the hornet is a great canopy to fly (OK, I don't have all that much experience, but I have fun with it and it seems comparable to the Sabres I have flown). AND (and this is important for a newbie like me), the hornet is very easy to pack: apparently the fabric used in the hornet is somewhat different from other ZP fabrics. I was afraid of tackling a ZP canopy after packing Mantas as a student, but in short order I got the hang of it and can easily corral it into the bag. There is some talk about PISA (and therefore the hornet) being no more, so you may want to make a decision soon. Finally, Roy at Rigs and Things takes great care of you and makes sure you are completely satisfied with your order. I wholeheartedly recommend purchasing from Rigs and Things. Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

Hey elatom -- I think everyone can empathize with your position. Being pretty new to the sport myself, I too asked myself the same questions not that long ago: why do I really want to do this? am I being unfair to my family (if an accident occurs)? The bottom line is that there is nothing -- NOTHING - like skydiving (but you already know that!). And that relates not only to the time from exit to landing; I can’t think of any other sport where absolute beginners are generally welcomed and treated just like the folks at the DZ with 10,000+ jumps. It’s almost like picking up a baseball bat for the first time and getting to shag flies with Yankees as if you were just one of the team. As for risk, you know it’s there, but as others have said, it can be managed (although it cannot be eliminated). Comparison to driving a car has become cliche, but it really is a good comparison: how often do you think about how much you’re risking your life every time you operate an automobile? And a large part of that risk is out of your control due to the behavior of the hundreds or thousands of other drivers you encounter each trip. In large measure, how much risk you accept in skydiving is up to you. For example, when I recently bought my first rig, I chose a larger main than what I was advised to get, and selected a large reserve canopy as well. I am also an obsessive packer and always ask for gear checks. I may look like a dork, but I’m planning on skydiving for quite a while. My point is that there certainly are extremely valid reasons for jumping out of airplanes. Whether the risks associated with doing so are acceptable to you is a question only you can answer.

Hey Skylark -- As with many of the folks that have replied, I can completely understand your perspective and know what you're talking about with regard to the pendulum swings of your moods. I think this is pretty common. There was a very similar thread last year and when I responded then I stated that I too get scared and specifically said that I hated when the door opened and it was time to go. Once out, everything was fine, but the minute or so before exiting, I hated it and had the EXACT same thoughts you're talking about. Well, a year or so has passed and I can tell you that now I LOVE it when the door opens. The point? With some experience (and not necessarily all that much, I'm very much a newbie) you gain confidence and you know that you can get the job done (the “job” being not to hurt yourself or others). I am not at all implying that I'm over confident -- to the contrary, I think I am way conservative (as has also been told to me by those I've jumped with). Being respectful and mindful of what this sport can do to you is the only mindset to have. With the constant thoughts of skydiving you're having, it seems pretty obvious you are a skydiver and you're going to stick with it. You're just in that "lack of confidence" phase that will pass with a relatively small number of additional jumps. Good luck!

Hey folks -- In the spirit of trying to get something for nothing, I'm throwing this poll out to you: For my first rig I am seriously considering these two alternatives: 1. A slightly used (~ 50 jumps) Reflex system with a Sabre 170 Raven reserve. Price = $2000. Adding an AAD would increase this by ~ $900. This rig is available from a rigger at my DZ. 2. A new Wings system with a Hornet 170 and Tempo reserve. This would be purchased as the "Affordable Rig" package through Rigs & Things (www.para-service.com). With AAD this would come to about $3200. So, whatcha think? Thanks for your input. (I continue to lean on you folks for advice and I very much appreciate it!)

I am just learning to pack and am faced with having to reconcile the different packing styles and advice given by the experienced jumpers at my DZ. One feature that seems to differ among these folks is whether they roll the nose of their canopy: some feel that it doesn’t really matter (i.e., the force of the windstream makes the effects of such subtleties in packing nonexistent), while others swear by it. So, my question is twofold: 1) How do you folks weigh in on this topic? and 2) does rolling the nose matter more for a ZP canopy than for an F-111 canopy? Thanks.

Dorky newbie question #3456: What are B-12 snaps? Thanks.

Rigs & Things Paraservice (http://www.para-service.com/) has the Genera container either separately or as part of the "Affordable Rig" they sell. I am very seriously considering this container for my first new rig as I have heard nothing but praise for it and would like to have some money to jump with after the rig is purchased.

OK, so here's one more newbie trying to parasitize the collective knowledge of the skydiving community ... I am very much looking forward to purchasing my first rig, but am somewhat perplexed by the tradeoffs in terms of buying new vs. used. As I see it, there are three options for buying a rig: 1. Buy a complete new rig. Pros: will have a rig (especially container) built to your needs; appeal and perceived security of having new equipment during the early jumps of a skydiving career. Cons: cost; wait time; may need to downsize relatively soon. 2. Buy a complete used rig. Pros: cost; wait time. Cons: jumping a rig built for someone else's body; chance of buying lower than expected quality equipment. 3. Mix new and used components. Specifically, I am asking about the strategy of buying a new container, reserve, and AAD, but purchasing a used main to be used for 100+ jumps or so and then replaced with a smaller main. The pros and cons here seem to be a potential tradeoff between those listed for options 1 and 2 above. In particular, you would have a container built for you, a reserve of your choosing (i.e., I like the strategy of having a big reserve: even though I'm 175 out the door, I would like to have a 200+ reserve), a new AAD, all components that could be used with a smaller (i.e., from a 190 to a 170) main when the time comes to downsize. More relevant data: I jump in the midwest, have about 25 jumps, plan on jumping about 100 times a year, and (ideally) want to spend less than $3500 now and not have to spend another big chunk in one or two years. (I would also like world peace and free beer.) Thanks for your input. Ignore as necessary.