Gravitymaster

Well there's still that pesky little question about what happened to all that VX nerve gas, all that Anthrax and all those "misplaced missiles". Once Hussein answers those questions and gives them up, the Big Dog can lie back down on the porch. Until then, Hussein risks getting bit.

I start giggling everytime I think about: "Dude you're gettin a CELL" ha ha -----Too funny----- ha ha

[ Oh, please Bill. To make that kind of a comparison is just ludicrous. We were attacked by the Japanese. Up until that point, we hadn't entered WW2. Using nukes saved millions of lives including mine and probably your grandfather. You compare that to Saddam Hussein aggressivelythreatening Kuwait, Isreal and other countries in the Middle East? Wheres that VX nerva gas, Bill? Why won't he tell us what he did with all the Anthrax? No, Bill. We were responding to Japan attacking Pearl Harbor and killing 3000 Americans. I don't have a problem painting him evil. He attacked Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We came to their defense. I don't remember the Saudis' of Kuwaitis' having a problem with us saving their butts. Nor do I remember the French having a problem with us saving them from the Germans. We weren't evil when it was their country on the line.

The U.N. is placing them against Iraq. All Saddam has to do is comply with the U.N. resolutions by disarming and the sanctions will be lifted. The question is why does Saddam Hussein continue to punish his own people instead of complying with the U.N. resolution. Remember why the resolutions were put in place to begin with. He invaded Kuwait, raped and pillaged that country, set the oil wells on fire creating the largest ecological disaster in history and was allowed to stay in power ONLY because he agreed to disarm. He hasn't proven he's done that. The U.N. Inspectors are not supposed to be detectives trying to find WMD. They are there to verify Iraq has disarmed. It is up to Iraq to provide that evidence. He hasn't done so. Where is all the Anthrax and VX nerve gas he admitted to the U.N. Inspectors in the past he possesed? Do you think he just dumped it down the kitchen sink? Where is it? Thats the question Saddam has to answer. Saddam is the one hurting his own people. Why won't the Iraqi scientists talk to the U.N. Inspectors? What are they afraid of?

I liked them the first 20 freakin times I saw the commercial too. After that, I changed the channel or turned the sound off. G.M.

I'm sure you are right. Sad isn't it?

Did you finish that entire bottle of Jim Beam while working on it?

Or that Geico Gecko. I mean would anybody buy insurance because of an annoying little lizard? I figure companies like that have figured out the mentality of their customers and are appealing to them on that level.

Actually it didn't work. I may have remembered the DiTech guy, but I'm shopping for a new house and won't consider them because the commercial is so annoying. I also avoided Dell Computers and bought an HP instead. I won't do business with those who annoy me even if I remember their commercials. Can you imagine calling Dell for service and having to speak to the Dell Dude? AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won't miss him. Annoying little prick wasn't he?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/delldude1.html

Queen Mum

It's more about oil to the countries like France and Germany than it is to the U.S. If I recall, the U.S. doesn't get any oil from Iraq. It's going to be very interesting when the truth about the French, German and Chinese involvement with helping Saddam Hussein develop longer range missiles and some of the other technology than he's not allowed to have under the U.N. sanctions, starts to come out. Oh, I almost forgot, what U.S. President transferred authority to the Department of Commerce to decide we should help the Chinese with their long range missle program. You remember don't you?? So why is everyone so surprised that N. Korea and Iraq now posses this technology? The Chinese are our "friends", remember? We would rather engage them than isolate them. That includes sharing our technology. Isn't it interesting that we hear about Saddam violating U.N. sanctions buy purchasing banned technology but we never hear what countries supplied him other that N. Korea. damn pesky little details. Who do you think supplies N. Korea? Ummm I'm thinking maybe ....China and Russia and maybe France and Germany??? And wouldn't those be the same countries who would be embarrassed if we start finding shipping orders that originated in those countries? Oh, I forgot.... China and Russia have been our friends for so long. They have America's best interest at heart. We can trust them can't we? So yes it's all about oil..... to the French, and Germans. Iraq owes Russia and China billions of $$$$$. So yep, its all about oil and money.

Best date I ever had was with a quadreplegic............Oh, never mind.

Back at ya

I don't understand why you are getting so over-amped about this. Lets review the discussion. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I originally said to Jerm:"Turn that closing pin over, it's upside down" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which Cornholio said: According to some people, if you freefly, you want it pointed straight up like that, so it does not snag on anything. Ask B^2, she'll tell you about that method. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which I responded: "No thanks, I'd rather not risk the closing pin becoming locked in the closing loop than the more remote possibility of the closing pin snagging on something". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- GM-Notice how I say REMOTE POSSIBILITY and then compare it to the odds of snagging? Thats the only point I originally started out to make that the odds of a container lock were greater than snagging the pin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To which Phreezone said: "Accourding to others (and in the student manual at my DZ) it should be pointed up incase your flap is open and you sit down in the plane it can not push your pin out. What can it snag on freeflying that it can't on your belly? Thats the direction its going to get pulled anyways. If its pointing down then it has to be rotated to be pulled and that rotation might be enough to lock it in place. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And then Jerm said "When i think about WHY would you want to do it that way more than another, i come up with: with all of the bumping/brushing etc that we doing moving aroud the plane, sitting on the floor/seat/etc, you're more likely to, especially if the flap has come open, but even through your flap, create some sort of pressure on that part of the rig from below you -- and if the pin is facing down, it can work its way out. With the pin facing up, the loop will just but up against the wide part of the pin. That scenerio, i believe, is plenty more likely than snagging, and not something i'd like to have happen. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which I agreed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We then had a discussion about how owners manuals depict the pin orientation to which Jerm replied: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Even if that is the "proper" way according to the manufacturer, I'll keep doing it how i do for the reasons stated in previous posts". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerm then went on to say: The Manual SHOWs it one way, however never states anywhere that this is the proper/best/etc way to do it. It may have just been good for illustration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At this point I tried to explain: "My experience is that most manufacturers spend a lot of time making sure everything in their manuals is precise. " See, here I am still just trying to say you should follow the owners manual. I also said"Install "your pin" any way you choose for whatever reason you choose to believe is the best. I would caution you however about ignoring what manufacturers consider "proper" for whatever anecdotal reasoning you may choose to believe. See here I'm telling you it isn't that important. At least not as important as you seem to think defending yourself is. Then KellyF said: While this was a problem with some pins made in the mid-late '80's it really isn't much of a concern with the pins that all (to the best of my knowledge) manufactuers use today. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which i agreed again: "Agreed. The odds of this happening on modern closing pins is much less "probable" than they were in the past. I would say however the pull force required to extract a pin in this position would be slightly higher than one where the pin was in the position recommended by the manufacturer. My main point is the probability of this causing a container-lock as opposed to an exposed pin snagging on something while freeflying is greater, however remote the possibility. See here again I am restating what I originally said to Cornholio at the beginning. That the odds of a pin locking in the closing loop was greater than a snag. I am also admitting again it is a remote possibility. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At this point, Hookit made a few coments about pulling the pin out of your rig a few times. He ignored the fact I said it "could happen under certain conditions" Quote by GM:I should also point out to you that installing the pin in the fashion you have chosen does have the potential to create a container lock if the locking loop slips up towards the islet of the closing pin. Take your rig out and experiment with it simulating deployment on your right side, slightly heads down. Admittedly the odds are rare but it is still a possibility. Probably more of a possibility that snagging the pin on something while freeflying. See Jerm? How many times have I said it "could happen" but was unlikely? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which Jerm replied:"Even if it is SLIGHTLY higher (which you have yet to give compelling evidence of), the pull-force of a PC is SEVERAL TIMES the necessary force to extract the closing pin. So even if it IS "slightly higher", the pin is still coming out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See Jerm, you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. I NEVER said there was a compelling reason. I only said it was "possible. I also never tried to convince you to change. If fact I told you to insert the pin however you wished. If you will try what I suggested and the imagine an old pilot chute, you will see it is "possible" albeit remotely. Jerm then became upset and said to me about Kelly: Umm.. KellyF IS the bloody manufacturer, and he just said it wasn't an issue. I now consider how i do it to be within the manufacturer's instructions. Is that good enough for you? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To which Kelly replied:"FWIW, having the pin point straight up is probably the best way. Which contradicts what Jerm just said. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerm also said: no, he's telling me my way is inherently dangerous because the diagram in the manual shows it a different way. Show me where I said this Jerm. Jerm also said: THAT is my point... i don't care which way he points it, i'm saying my way is just as valid/safe/proper/etc as what he considers 'right' ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I simply pointed out to you what the owners manual by almost every manufacturer shows. You choose not to follow it for whatever reasons, fine. As I said before install the pin whatever way you want. I prefer to follow the manual. I have snipped and editorialized some of this thread for brevity. If I left out some part of our conversation you felt was important, it was not intentional and you may correct me. Jerm, you really need to chill, you are getting way too worked up about this.

No thanks, I have better things to do. Please re-read my comments regarding how important I think this is. What I do think is important is to follow the manufacturers instructions. That was my point.

Agreed. The odds of this happening on modern closing pins is much less "probable" than they were in the past. I would say however the pull force required to extract a pin in this position would be slightly higher than one where the pin was in the position recommended by the manufacturer. My main point is the probability of this causing a container-lock as opposed to an exposed pin snagging on something while freeflying is greater, however remote the possibility. I would liken this discussion to one where we were arguing whether the side flap (3 and 4)closing sequence on the main pack tray of a Javelin container was much of an issue. Probably not, but why not just follow the manufactureres instructions? Just to be different isn't a very good reason Bob

Hopefully, you don't honestly believe this. What if you are wrong? My experience is that most manufacturers spend a lot of time making sure everything in their manuals is precise. Have you had a diffent experience? If so could you share it with us? Install "your pin" any way you choose for whatever reason you choose to believe is the best. I would caution you however about ignoring what manufacturers consider "proper" for whatever anecdotal reasoning you may choose to believe. I should also point out to you that installing the pin in the fashion you have chosen does have the potential to create a container lock if the locking loop slips up towards the islet of the closing pin. Take your rig out and experiment with it simulating deployment on your right side, slightly heads down. Admittedly the odds are rare but it is still a possibility. Probably more of a possibility that snagging the pin on something while freeflying. Bob

When i think about WHY would you want to do it that way more than another, i come up with: with all of the bumping/brushing etc that we doing moving aroud the plane, sitting on the floor/seat/etc, you're more likely to, especially if the flap has come open, but even through your flap, create some sort of pressure on that part of the rig from below you -- and if the pin is facing down, it can work its way out. With the pin facing up, the loop will just but up against the wide part of the pin. That scenerio, i believe, is plenty more likely than snagging, and not something i'd like to have happen. *** ???? Then we are apparently, if I reading your answer correctly, in complete agreement.Quote

No thanks, I'd rather not risk the closing pin becoming locked in the closing loop than the more remote possibility of the closing pin snagging on something.

Turn that closing pin over it's upside down.

Dave only holds one course per year. It is usually around the second week in January. You are correct, it is a very good course and Dave is probably the foremost authority on rigging.

A woman was shopping at her local supermarket where she selected quart of milk, a carton of eggs, juice, and a package of bacon. As she was unloading her items on the conveyor belt to check out, a drunk standing behind her watched as she placed the items one by one on the conveyor in front of the cashier. He said, "You must be single." The woman, a bit startled but intrigued, looked at her four items on the belt. Seeing nothing particularly unusual about her selections she said, "Well, you know what, you're absolutely right. But how on earth did you know that?" The drunk said, "'Cause you're uglier'n shit."