DARK

You're going to have a hard time convincing USPA or any current, experienced skydiver that the recommendation should be less than 200 jumps. In a practical sense, the only people advocating lowering the number are those that don't have the experience. You're right; experienced people also get distracted with a camera. However, their experience affords them the muscle memory and thought process that allows them to deal with problems, much moreso than someone with virtually no experience. Sure...there are people that can manage a camera early on. In my own case, I began training for the camera on my 27th jump. I spent a lot of time in the tunnel with Ed Dickenson, a lot of air time with people like Jay Stokes, Jack Guthrie, Norman Kent, and a few others that really helped me along the way. I didn't fart around with trying to learn to freefly or anthing else. I did relative work and worked on proximity. Even then, I wasn't ready, not really. My second camera jump I ended up in a bad place. S*t happens, no doubt. It can happen at 10, 200, 10,000 jumps. But the guy with 200 jumps is twice as equipped to deal with problems than the guy at 100 jumps, who is twice as equipped to deal with it than the guy who has 50 jumps. All you have to do is look at the list compiled of "stupid" that we've already collected in just a few months, and they don't represent 25% of what has likely gone on. It's not the "I've been doing this for a while and getting away with it" that matters. It's that one time you find yourself in a spot and can't figure out how to deal with it fast enough. You put yourself and others at risk. Only day before yesterday I watched a guy with 150 jumps wearing a camera practicing his sit. "I was just filming my own jump, trying to hold a heading and film my heading." He lost altitude and positional awareness and tracked into another person's airspace. They deployed about 50' apart. The relative worker who was nearly hit had no idea another person was that close until he heard a canopy opening just below and to his side. IMO, that is unconscionable. first of all im not saying i dont agree with you(accept about the only people advocating lowering the number is inexperienced people because i know that not to be true for a fact) im just saying that a jump number is not necessarily the best way to gauge things and if that is the general consensus or if the general consensus is it should be a rating(even one your not eligible for until 200 jumps) then we as uspa members should be able to enact that change and just saying 'the uspa wont do that' is not a good enough answer also as someone who is in the bracket you guys are talking about and i guess as someone you are trying to reach to see 'good sense' i can tell you that the way you guys are doing it right now has no affect i dont care that dse has a list of people who have done stupid stuff and i wont care until there is a proper official comparison of idiots with cameras and without, and i can tell you that if your not having an affect on me(as a pretty conservative jumper who likes to take things fairly slow) then there is no way in hell your gonna reach the actual gung ho people you really gotta worry about the reason i like the rating idea given by a respected appointed local is because people are far far more likely to listen to their peers who they know and respect and who knows them then to an 'official recomendation' in a book most will never read. making it a rating gives the idea that camera is a special discipline that deserves respect more weight imo

nope im from ireland cause i lucky enough to be born there i live in your country for some of the year cause i choose to and im a member of the uspa because i skydive here and its still making a mountain out of a mole hill

just to play devils advocate - a set limit for everyone is easy to enforce but dosnt really make anything all that much safer, if its a distraction its a distraction no matter how many jumps you have and there are people who can deal with that and people who cant no matter how many jumps they have. i know skydivers with hundreds of jumps and days in the tunnel who still cant deal with any extra distractions - you cant look at people who wear go pros and look at the stupid shit they do and blame it on the go pros unless you have a way to compare it with stupid shit people do without go pros. the stupidest thing iv done in skydiving was done with no camera on my head (i have never jumped with any type of camera) - i will more than likely wait until i have 200 jumps to jump with a camera as even though thats what iv always wanted to do since starting im not in any particular rush to do it this season BUT if i were to talk to my instructors who have known me from day one and who i live and work with on a day to day basis and they happen to think i would be safe to fly one i dont know what makes anyone on here think they know better - thats why i think there should be a course that you can take if you choose from your s+ta or something after say 100 jumps if you have your coach rating or something like that(i think the being able to coach at 100 but not fly camera at 100 is a pretty strong argument) that will teach you good procedure and awareness for flying any camera not to mind a small format one when someone gives a good suggestion that is thought out and reasonable simply saying 'but thats not the way it is and it wont change' isnt really a good enough answer, in theory we are in control of the organisation who makes these ratings after all

having a problem with even that is retarded its a total non issue that they have made an issue out of by polling people on their in house decisions you guys give way too much thought to weather something is or isnt patriotic or is or isnt american enough

posting on the internet is one thing but if your really 'done being silent' the place for your complaints is your dzo / s+ta / dz manager i dont keep my profile up to date cause i never think about it i dont really care what people on here know or dont know about me

i hope we get some crw going on here this summer was easily the best part of last summer anyway carry on :p

i think the guy second from the left is keith tivedge(sorry for destroying the second name) who is on the us crw team and gave me my introduction to crw id pretty much take his advice on gear over most other peoples

skydive new engalnd has alot of dogs around, there is a leash law but you say your happy keeping the dog leashed so thats not an issue they charge for camping if your a tandem and maybe for fun jumpers but i doubt it and i reckon if you ring and say you want to do aff or up to a licence im sure they wont charge for camping all the dogs that are here are pretty friendly with the visiting dogs too but only come if your cool :p

I have photos, but they're for an upcoming magazine article. Skydive Elsinore is being featured in both DVMagazine and EVENTDV magazine because of their ridiculously fast output of videos and handing them off to customers on a DVD. Ric, Angie, Lob have done an incredible job. BTW, Jumptown is also being featured in those magazine articles, but their editing space isn't nearly as sexy as the one at S'nore. S'nore painted the room with broadcast grey for color balance and to reduce stress on the editor's eyes, they put in properly tinted lighting, nice desks, and OMG FASST! editing machines with regular DVD and Blu-ray DVD burners. Plus they're delivering video to YouTube and other sources as additional revenue streams. And...they have a couple other sweet tricks up their sleeve for the near future. so whats the time from the editor getting the footage to it being given to the customer on dvd?

www.skydivenewengland.com

while it made me get sick a little in my mouth(it wasnt the 10/15 beers it was the pics) i am still impressed by some people having the balls to post their unfortunately i plan on being famous some day so i dont ahve the balls to post them publicly but fair play lads, if it helps you get laid let us all know

what has the video got to do with liberals or progressives or are you just ranting away?

well while it is a idf released and edited video, you can see a paintball gun being used right at the end of it also all the videos form both sides are heavily heavily edited two irish politicians were denied boarding onto this ship in cyprus one is a td(congressman basically) and the other a senator, it would be interesting to find out why they were refused boarding onto the ship and by who

it should be whatever the journalist wrote not whatever you choose to change his words if you want to call it murder do so in your own name not someone elses

the ap reuters? that reporter is blatantly biased, if there was a similarly biased reporter on the otherside that even briefly mentioned these 'facts' it would help its credibility again there were no pirates involved in what happened

if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back

an independant link? i dont listen to propoganda from the anti israel side im not going to listen to it from the israelis either there was reuters reporter on one of the israeli ships i think i look forward to his full unedited report

Quote The initial force was equiped mostly with paint guns (anti riot gear) and wes attacked with knives, crow bars and some live ammo (possibly from a gun taken from a wounded soldier). only after an Israeli soldier was thrown off deck (30 feet) and another stabbed, they started using more force. [/reply have you alink to reports of them going in with riot gear first? iv seent eh video the idf released but there dosnt seem to be any reports of them going in with riot gear on ly in the press iv seen in europe

videos have surfaced from both sides now and the more i hear the more i think that while no1 deserved to die here i cant really fault the soldiers for anything as far as israel is concerned this ship was breaking the law by trying to go threw the blockade maybe it was doing this to ship arms to hamas, they needed to check it out they told the ship this repeatedly and it refused to stop so they decided to board the ship so far i have no problem with israeli actions and it appears the ship knew exactly what it was getting itself into there are reports that shots were fired before any boarding if this is the case this is wrong and unacceptable when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences

Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. also The Protective Principle The protective principle recognizes that a sovereign can adopt a statute that criminalizes conduct that occurs outside of its borders when that conduct affects the sovereign itself. Under that principle a nation can adopt laws that make it a crime to engage in an act that obstructs the function of government or threatens its security as a state without regard to where or by whom the act is committed.

Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. iirc there is no such thing as gaza waters? every piece of water around gaza is irsraeli waters also israel allows no aid to gaza that has not been inspected and this is well known and was repeated to the ship numerous times at the very least these ships knew what they were doing and knew the probable reaction from israel, that dosnt excuse the actions it just means they were deliberately provoking a response which is not the same thing as innocently sailing around the world and being attacked completely randomly

there is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters im undecided on this incident reading this thread is the first i have heard of injured israeli soldiers on one hand up to 19 dead sounds very excessive on the other hand the ship was repeatedly told that there is no aid allowed into gaza without being inspected and they still kept going it sounds to me that they wanted a confrontation and i find it suspicious that twitter was updated almost during the attack but it also seems like israel played right into their handsand went totally over the top

no it dosnt it means going to a garage or two with the owners of the car to get a few competeing quotes and then paying them the average one, or asking for photographs of damage(which insurance inspectors take and bringing them to a garage for a quote. but no, you do the irresponsible thing and make it as difficult as possible for them, thus driving up insurance costs for everyone and perpetuating the cycle of never accepting fault for anything and creating the litigation state you live in its one of the worst features of american society

you guys are funny this is one of the rare threads were almost every poster is making at least one valid point the problem is you are so blinded by either your 'love for your country and its system' or your 'love for your country and its potential' that you refuse to acknowledge the universal parts of eachothers arguments america has a decent health care system for people who can afford to be fully insured it is a very very good health care system for everyone else im yet to be convinced obesity and laziness are first world global problems which come hand in hand with the technological progress. america appears to be particularly affected by obesity. this will affect its ranking as far as liffe expectancy goes etc. what the people who say 'oh well we would be number one if we didnt have fat people' wont accept is that obesity or lack of obesity is part of your healthcare system. your healthcare dosnt start at the gp or when you arrive in the emergency room it statrts at home and in school when you are being educated by the people most important to you what the people who say 'obesity is a world wide problem' wont accept is that it is in fact not as much as a problem in other countries as in yours. at a certain point personal choice comes into it and at the moment more people in your country are choosing to be unhealthy and obese than in other countries, this will affect you figures this does not excuse your figures

and thats the problem with your country right there folks, take personaly responsibility for something ffs