tdog

That I agree with... Thus, at at least the DZ I frequent, your statement is wrong: Every DZ has slight variations and that is ok... At least for people I teach, the circle of awareness hand signal means do a full circle of awareness with 4 steps (horizon, alti, instructor, instructor). Tapping an altimeter (or even the opposite wrist) means look at your alti. The students are trained this in a video, in the FJC, and by the instructors. The full circle of awareness is phased out in the first few jumps with a student, and by the time they are on a coach jump, "horizon, alti, instructor, instructor" is not a useful thing for most diveflows. Further, we tell students "do only two circles of awareness on a level 1, after that just keep checking your alti and the horizon/heading in short circles every few seconds." And we tell them, "we will only give you hand signals for practice touches or COA if you forget to do them on your own." After a student does two great COAs, to conflict with what we trained them and to ask them to do a whole new 3rd COA just because we feel it has been a tad long since they checked their alti, does not make sense to me. The student might think, "I just did a full COA, why again?" I get postive feedback from the students in the debrief understanding the COA vs tap on wrist, "you tapped my wrist, I checked my alti, and I realized I was slacking. I saw it was close to pull time so I checked it again and pulled." Everyone has their own technique. And that is alright. So the moral to the story is - if you are a coach, instructor, etc - ask your student what signals they know before the jump and use those, or train new ones. Hopefully matching ones others at the DZ use. It is like my friends dog who knew to pee every time his owner said "john lennon", it does not matter as long as both creatures are on the same page. That being said, the pull signal (both pointing one finger, and waving and pulling) is the pull signal and that is pretty darn universal and should be given a lot of respect.

You don't need to point at your alti. Tap it with all four fingers or the palm of your hand. I also like putting my alti in my face until the student gets the hint. Both work. You don't need to point down with one finger to indicate a bad spot. You can put two fingers to your eyeballs then wave both of those fingers to the place you want them to look. They understand, "look over there". Both of these sign language clues seem to work with many students with zero training because they just make sense. If you want someone to track or go some direction, point with all four fingers stuck out and thumb at the palm of your hand. Wave in the direction you want them to go starting with elbow bent, fingers to the sky eventually arm extended the direction you want them to go. This one makes so much sense most dogs understand it when you want to play fetch, so humans should too. Don Yarling taught me this when I was getting my coach rating. We were in the middle of an eval, and he said something. I gestured "good point", on the ground, and my hand resembled a "pull" signal. He yelled, "arch, reach, throw!" loud enough everyone within a mile could hear. Then said to me, "why would you tell me to pull on the ground?" It was his dramatic show that taught me a lesson such that I remember this to this day.

As far as I am concerned, the pull signal works for any skydiver from 1 to 10,000 jumps. On the 3rd jump I teach the skydiver that if I am waving, it means I am waving to pull and they should do the same. I explain the reason is they may be too far away to see the pull signal. So both hand signals mean the same thing to me - pull... If I want the student to track away and pull, I wave them off with a "move over there" hand signal or a waive that looks like a "good bye" instead of both hands waving over the head like "I am going to pull". Why should the hand signals stay universal? Say your best friend had a horseshoe malfunction where they need to pull their PC right away to solve the problem. What would you do? Say your friend is acting very weird and you suspect they are having a medical emergency where they need to be reminded to pull. What would you do? The pull signal is useful. Both of these stories are stolen from incident reports. My philosophy... A coach should not feel obligated to pull for a student, and a student should not expect their coach to pull for them. Nor should they expect to give the "pull signal". The coach instead should aggressively track away at the planned break off time and glance over their shoulder to see if their student is doing the same. That being said, if a student is injured, unconscious, medically impaired, or something like that - all bets are off I would do my best to help a friend in need, if they were an AFF student, coach student, or another instructor. The fear is that a coach will try to be a hero for a coach student that does not need their help - and cause the situation to be worse. AFF instructors are theoretically tested for their flying skills and trained for various EPs. Coaches are not tested for these things. So my advice, if your student needs to do something - communicate it via hand signals until break off, at which time track like you would with any other jumper... Unless they are unable to help themselves for a real emergency, and then do what you can to help them ignoring the rules as all rules are off when a friend is in serious need. But even then, you have a hard deck and you eventually need to leave letting the AAD do it's job.

So it failed once? We all know parachutes are not perfect, but I bet most skydivers expect a better than 99% success rate.

I disagree about touching. DRings need a bit of force to come out, and then they need a good pull to activate the reserve. Touching your handles is a good way to learn you can do it. The worst thing that happens - you actually fire your reserve. This practice should be happening on a solo jump anyway - so even if the one in a million chance you somehow put 10+ pounds of force on your D ring to fire your reserve, nothing "too bad" will happen anyway. I know more than one person who has had to pull their reserve at terminal - why not get used to flying in the body position required to pull that handle.

There is a certain risk of two outs. I think the manufactures of AADs could build a data collection terminal - even if it is a 2nd AAD who's cutter does not cut anything, and "try" the new altitude settings on 500 jumpers to see if everyday skydivers scare their AADs to the point that the possible two-out risks outweigh the safety added by increasing the AAD altitude. Honestly - I see the big way skydivers taking it lower than freefliers and other smaller groups, so perhaps this should be looked at too.

Here is some interesting reading on Hicks Law - and the time it takes to make multiple decisions: http://www.hockscqc.com/articles/hickslaw.htm Any way you interpret the data - having multiple "if this, then this" type reactions take additional time - some might argue as much time as it would take just to cut away and pull your reserve instead of deciding if you should cut away first, then reacting... Therefore - I like for both students and experienced skydivers alike: "If you moved your hand towards your main, and it did not work - cutaway and pull your reserve. If you decided to go straight to your reserve, that is just fine." This simplifies the process into one yes/no solution. But you say: I agree with the low pull - it fits my rule. Hard pull - nope, I still cutaway. It is too time consuming for me to ask myself, "why is it a hard pull? Did I pull it too far such that it might dislodge on reserve activation?" But I would not worry if someone else said, "hard pulls - I just go to my reserve"... But one comment of yours that caught my eye - the PC in tow -- I have always had the school of thought I rather cut away first and then deploy my reserve in a PC in tow situation as the reserve opening might dislodge the pin and allow the main to try to open. This is further justified as I don't know if I will always have the wherewithal and ability to see/differentiate between a PC in tow and a baglock, and if I have a baglock I want all that crap to leave before I put my reserve into the airspace. And, I could tow that PC for a while before it opens, and if I should happen to be on landing, I don't want it to open then. I also don't want to be trying to grab it behind me after my reserve opens when I should be trying to pick a safe landing spot. So what are your reasons for wanting the PC in tow to stay connected? I honestly wonder - are there stories of PC in tows that have been cut away - and the timing sucked so bad that the cutaway PC in tow cleared in a way to foul the reserve as the reserve was opening - such that keeping it connected for the same scenario would have been preferred???

Conclusions I have made (opinions, not facts): 1) It appears riggers, such as yourself, have known about this wear point for years. Either you and others have reported them to UPT and UPT has failed to identify the risk - or - riggers such as yourself have been quietly repairing these points and UPT legitimately did not know how widespread this issue has been. 2) In talking to a few senior and master riggers - most agree this stitching is hidden just enough behind fabric that it has gone unnoticed until now. One rigger said, "who would have thought it could have killed someone?" The other said, "I honestly have never inspected that point on my checklist because I did not understand the structural significance. I look all over the entire rig, but I could have missed that before." So therefore solutions are: When riggers do repair work on structural items, other than items like linesets or other items that are documented to wear and need periodic replacement, they need to contact the manufacture. "Hey friends at XXX company. I just had to restitch this component - photos attached. I have had to do this three times thus far on these rigs SN 1, SN 2, SN 3". The manufacture hopefully will then track these and if they notice trends take actions in testing, service bulletins, education.

Instead of tipping - hang around the DZ, and at the end of the day... Learn what the community does after hours (stay around and drink, go to a bar, etc) You probably will be invited to dinner with your instructors and their friends... As after all - skydivers like to do fun stuff with skydivers... If they don't invite you, invite the entire DZ to dinner instead and they likely will say yes. At dinner you can buy a drink for your instructor - or even just toast their efforts in a big sincere thank you.

I think you also need to take into consideration the AAD batteries. Most likely the heat will not cause damage, but it couldn't hurt to inspect them if you are concerned about other parts of the rig. When you say the car was covered, do you mean by a roof/carport, etc? Or by a fabric cover? Or the rig was covered by the trunk lid? You say the heat got to 71F/22C while you were gone. If the car was covered by a carport roof and the sun rarely shined on it directly, then the car never got over the ambient air temp, and you have no issues. If the cover was only a fabric car cover, or the trunk lid - then the car got hotter than air temp, and you might have a concern.

Thanks for posting this. My personal rig (used as my 2nd backup rig for back to backs, etc) needed immediate grounding as I found 1/3 of the stiching torn on the RSL side and I was able to do additional damage with my fingers. DOM 2005, +- 700 jumps. I inspected one other vector on the DZ and found it was pulling, but not yet torn. Much newer and smaller rig. The owner is going to have it repaired on the next repack.

In one of your first posts you said: In the last post you said: The eye witness posted he was at 1100 feet when he saw your reserve fire a few hundred feet below him. So, I am confused why it fired. Even in student mode with a -150 offet, pulling at 3000 feet and flying a normal uneventful canopy should not cause a fire, otherwise a lot of AFF students will have two outs too unless there is one more fact filling in the missing link. What is the missing link Vigil says caused the unit in student mode to fire? Are they saying your canopy (presumably being small and fast) descended faster than the limits for student mode?

At what altitude was the reserve packed? What altitude is the landing area of your DZ?

Besides for the warning about your skills, I have over 1,000 jumps on a Katana, both a 170 and a 120. I never have had closed end cells with any regularity, so I think something is a bit fishy with your canopy as it seems a bit abnormal. I have not jumped a 135, so that size may have a bit more end cell closure than others??? The 170 - the opening feels a bit more "two staged" where the first "pull" is the canopy out of the bag where the slider hangs at the top for a second or two, then the second "pull" is when the slider quickly comes down. The 120 - the slider typically comes down much sooner and with a bit more smoothness... But both canopies open wonderfully and I like them both. Being it is a HP canopy, check absolutely everything on the lines and risers... Any twists in the lines? Hooked up symmetrically? Risers same length? Lines same length? Yes, a very small difference in length changes everything. If everything is good - then maybe send the canopy to PD to do a few test jumps. Or order a demo of a canopy of the same size to determine if it is "you" or "the canopy". A Katana pays attention to you on opening. If you are telling it to open weird, by body position (even just a shoulder dropped a hair) - it will pay attention and do what you tell it to do. Once you learn the canopy, you can correct any misbehavior on opening by counteracting...

... then have to pay a lawyer to show the jury in the family's wrongful death lawsuit claiming you packed an expired AAD the same log book and convince them that it was not you...

I learned the hard way that ink from rubber stamps can wash off. A world champion swooper called me from a competition yelling at me, "dude, you did not sign my card!" When he got home I found out that the card got very wet in a pond swoop and the ink washed off. I have a brand name rubber stamp with premium ink. It still washed off. It does have a added positive side effect. The second my reserve packjob gets soaked in a pond, it is immediately invalid when the packing datacard goes suddenly blank. So now for swoopers I use a sharpie magic marker instead. Perhaps someone with a tad more time than I can play with different inks found at office supply stores and post here what ink works well so I can reink my stamp with ink that won't wash off??? FYI, I use red because I like the color to be a 'color'...

I AGREE... If you pencil pack, make up a rigger's name and seal. Don't take me down with you when something happens...

Hey painter, What are you doing tomorrow? It is the weekend and that means jumpn'! Don't worry about the pull thing on your last jump... It won't be a problem again. When my dad purchased a boat, the dealer said, "everyone forgets the drainplug once, just so you know, the boat will still float when it is full of water." We promissed him that we would never forget. Two winters later I had to jump into ice cold water to install the drainplug in the middle of the lake. We never forgot it again. This transfers over to skydiving a bit... But it is a little different in that the first jump is where this stuff is worked out and it never happens again. Some students pull and it never is an issue. Some need one jump to work out the details... So go jump and have fun and stop stressing out about it because next time you will pull... It is one of those things that happens only once.

Then your guess is 100% wrong. I was mentioning tap your alti on your WRIST as I find most students know, without being taught, tapping the device means look at it. People commonly use the tapping the watch handsignal on the street to ask someone they don't even know, "what time is it?" Of course we teach it in the class too, it is in our training videos too, but when the student is stressed out and forgetting everything they learned in the FJC, using a handsignal stolen from common every day society works well... That being said, if you have had great luck pulling on a student's arm, continue to do so. I tried it a lot because that is what I was taught to do. I still do it if I think it will help, but I find other tricks work better for me...

Personal opinion starts here: I find that a student that is not responding to a pull signal gets even more confused when I yank on their hand back to the pilot chute... I have tried it many times and I don't think it ever has worked. Thus, I believe the pull signal and/or hitting their altimeter is the best technique. I rather keep doing that for 5 seconds and hope it "sinks in" than doing it for 2.5 seconds then suddenly switching gears to pulling on their arm... If information overload is already causing them to forget to save their own life, giving them more information in a 5 second window is not going to help... Personal opinion. Now - if they have started the pull sequence and simply cannot find the PC, then helping them find the PC is well received and I will continue to help them until I am at my absolute lowest comfortable hard deck as most of the time they need just an extra second to find it.

Speaking as an AFF-I who has done many level 1s. Don't worry, go jump again, have fun. Those who have this common problem on level 1 rarely have it on level 2 or their next 10,000 jumps.

Pat was my first coach in the tunnel in 2005 when I had 30 jumps. Then I came back and did 4 way camps with him and Dan BC a few times in 2005 and 2006. I am sad. He was the best coach I ever had in our funny little sport. He was a role model. Speechless.

I have a digital. I have an analog. I don't have one of the hybrids. It was the analog that, when above 10,000 feet, would keep climbing to about 20,000 feet. FYI to all. I was just riding my motorcycle down a busy highway and tested the how quickly I could glance at the digital spedo and the analog tach. For me, the digital was quicker every time. Everyone's brain works differently, so I like Ron's advice of test it.

To me there are two types of issues. Issues that you know in freefall or in the aircraft, such as a battery warning or a device that turned off due to bad batteries versus issues that give false readings with no warning. I have had more "issues" with digital. But each time I knew my alti was not working and did not trust it. When my analog broke the 2nd time, it would give a reading 2,500 feet too high, thus causing low pulls for a person who does not identify it in time. It would always read OK on the ground once adjusted. It would read OK in the aircraft to about 10,000 feet. But after 10,000 feet it would continue to artificially climb in addition to the real aircraft climb. So it would read higher based on the time the aircraft was at altitude. To make things more complex, the model would "max out" at about 16,000 above sea level under normal use, but our jumprun is closer to 18K, so it always read 1,500 feet or so lower on jumprun and would "catch back up" once in freefall. It was only when I watched it continue to climb to a reading of about 20,000 feet when we were doing a few go arounds, when I realized how the alti was always off when I landed. I have seen analogs get stuck and give confusing readings. I have seen digitalis "reset" or give a screen with a serial number. I 100% of the time have known the digital failed. I did not know the analog failed until I landed and it was off and wondered why my friends tracked off early and everything "felt low". Thus I will accept the digital issues over the analog issues as my more favored device. That is a bad battery, I can confirm because I had the same thing - except mine would show a serial number on opening. Batteries lose voltage and ability to deliver current when they are cold (think of your car starting in the winter). The neptune seems to need additional power on opening to switch modes from freefall to canopy, as I went thru 10 jumps where I knew the battery was low and I pushed the limits to see what would happen. I have had both the most recent software versions, and with both software versions, it never showed a false altitude. (I did not push any buttons). Instead it showed a screen I knew was not trustworthy. All that being said, the battery replacement was not the device's fault, mine. AND most importantly, the altitude/error message/screen message was a clear indication of failure, where an analog has absolutely no method of telling the user "I am dead" in freefall as it ONLY and ALWAYS gives an altitude reading. All that being said, I still believe the digital altimeter is more reliable for a skydiver, not because it will always work, but because most of the time when it fails it tells the user it failed, where an analog may or may not be more "reliable", but the mode of failure gives a false reading that requires the end user to think "this just does not make sense, could this thing be broken, maybe I should tap it to see what it says when I do." P.S. I know my opinions are strong on this - not trying to hurt anyone else's feelings. Just expressing what I believe.

It came from personal experience with my gear and all my friends gear and seeing the statistical fail rates in the real world. I guess you have had different experiences. I am wondering if the digital, in freefall, failed that catastrophically, or if it showed warning signs in the aircraft or on the ground before failing....