dgw

I thought I'd post this in the civilised forum. I was wondering, with the benefit of hindsight, what the general view is on during which period of time it was 'most safe' to be a skydiver. I ask this question because the fatality trends have changed over the years, and because equipment and skydiving / parachuting has changed over the years. Currently, I see a lot of debate about swooping, but little about no-pull type fatalities. Go back 30 years (way before my time), and I suspect that the rhetoric was reversed. I also think that, at any point in time, gear was 'the state of the art', and accepted as such until it was found lacking in some way. So, when, up to the present day, was a skydiver least likely to get killed? My thoughts are that it was probably in the very late 1980s and early 1990s, with the following 'logic'. Parachutes were still fairly big, gear problems were largely elimininated, AADs were becoming common. Static-line trained skydivers were 'the norm' (I hold the view that static line trained skydivers are more determined individuals, and therefore more likely to be better at following training - I might be wrong.. :-) ) I'm just interested as to what those with a proper long perspective think. I'm equally open to the idea that people find a way to funk up, no matter what.. Darren

Danke schone

Our normal jumps are "HALO". I presume you mean high-alititude. The dividing line should be between things that any skydiver can experience at some time in the normal course of events, versus specialized things that would only happen if you chose to make it happen. Sunset loads can become night jumps, water landings can happen from bad spots, and accuracy can become necessary if you're blown off-airport by winds. So to be an expert, you should know how to deal with those things. On the other hand, no one accidentally ends up in a wingsuit or at 20,000 feet - they had to plan for that to happen in advance, so there are different paths to take to become versed in those subjects. True but since when does a jump that is just barely after sunset have the same darkness level that a "night jump" has. They are not even close. I never understood the argument really? You cannot take off and suddenly find yourself doing a night jump classified by the SIM. I enjoy doing a night jump but it is not even close to doing a jump that is just as the sun is setting or right after. A true night jump is a choice just like the other jumps mentioned. I do not think it should be required. JMHO Well, I read earlier that the USPA requirements for a night jump are that it is carried out between the hours of sunset and sunrise. I don't know if this is correct. If it is, then at my position on the Earth (about 50 miles north of London), you have about 30 minutes between sunset and the end of civil twighlight, where it is still plenty bright for most of that time. The street lights come on at the end of civil twighlight. I'm not overly keen on lobs in the inky blackness of a New Moon, but I'd have no problem going for a 'night jump' 10 minutes after sunset. I've done that many times, without having to blindly grope my way back to the packing hangar...

It breaks the white looking loop Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 'flipped down riser'? How does it arise? Thanks...

Many thanks - that is very interesting. The difference in pack volume, compared to a sleeve, is huge (as I am sure that you know...

It is not my view - I have a small collection of older gear. It interests me. But, my real desire to use the PC, and all manliness aside, I think that best way (for me) is use systems that I am familiar with. If the harness of the system I have fitted (and it is *way* too small) , I'd probably use the equipment as it is, but I need to get something that fits, and it might as well be gear that I am trained to use.

Thanks Winsor, I gave a heads-up rigger a good listening to at the weekend, and that was his firm view, which I think is entirely sensible. He basically said, eliminate as much as the 'old crap gear' as possible, and just use the PC. So, that is the plan. Mr Hilton has kindly offered to help me out, and I will take all of his advice. I will update the thread to let you all know how it goes. Many thanks to all, Darren

Hi Andrew, Many thanks for the photo link - it has really helped me see the possibilities. I am based in the UK, and I will gladly take up your kind offer of packing instruction. I can go most anywhere, most weekends. I bought the system from Keith Mace (who suggested that I speak to you), and he was clear about the degree of shortlining: 60 inches - I don't have any metric to compare the line length with, but he is a light gentleman, and he seemed confident in his information. I might be able to borrow a bigger container from Fordy that is sized for a 280 main canopy - he gave me a hand packing the PC (easier than the manual.. :-) ) and intimated that this was a possibility. As for deployment devices, I have not much of a clue, to be frank. My only observation was that the sleeve system is really bulky... I have had a read of The Manual by Mr Lewis, and I have a copy (per Stratostar's demand..) of Mr Poynter's Vol 1 on order so I can get up to speed. But, yes, educate me please :-) Many thanks, Darren

Many thanks for the comments and help folks. It is much appreciated.

Thanks Dude

Folks, I am hoping to tax a little information from the old school about Paracommanders. I've done a search, and scanned the FAA rigger manual, but I am no better informed... :-) I have had the great good fortune to pick up a PC, complete with H/C and reserve. However, the H/C is far too small, and the advice I have had is to put the PC in a modern(ish) piggy-back rig, to minimise the 'old crap gear problems (quote)'. I like this advice, as it keeps things relatively simple for me. I have not jumped front / back gear, although I do have a H/C that fits and would take the PC. I'd prefer to avoid using it if I can. Here is the first question: The PC is HUGE, and the deployment device is a heavy cotton sleeve, which was very interesting to figure out how it works. The sleeve seems to be about 30% - 40% of the bulk (I guess). Are there any ways (that work) to deploy a PC other than with a sleeve? I have a Dolphin student container sized for a 260 SQ ft main, but there is no hope of getting the PC in there in a sleeve. I thought about about getting a nylon sleeve made up? Second question: What size containers were used for the orginal piggy-back systems with PCs, and what deployment system was used? Third question: I am informed by the former owner that it has been shortlined by 60 inches. This seems like a quite a lot of shortlining... Any comments on likely effects? The gear is in (to my non - rigger eye) good nick, and was last jumped in 2008. Thanks in advance for any comments. Darren

Well, Thank you one and all. I am picking up a fairly unequivocal trend here, which is giving me pause for thought (about legs and ankles and other fragile bones, and all the things that I need those bits for). I have watched Mike Swain's DVD that accompanies his book 'The Endless Fall', which is my entire experience of hard landings (aside from the occasional mild stoof). Water landings are not, to my knowledge, do-able, in the UK so that is a bust. I would really like to give this canopy a day out, and I'm thinking maybe with a cutaway rig. I know a chap who might let me use one. Jerry, the chap who passed on the advice about the free-stowing of Strato Flyers is, coincidentally, experiencing his 30th anniversary of his first lob tomorrow. He has (I think) about 10,000 lobs. The fullness of his comment was, in fairness, that 'Everybody went through the 'system'. Buy a Strato Flyer, free pack it (with description), have a mal, guaranteed, within three lobs, and then use a different packing method.' His counterpart (the other co-owner of the DZ) added that they used to be called Strato Splats. Anyway, I have picked up the lesson, and it is appreciated. Thanks and kind regards, Darren

Folks, I thought this a better thread for the old school pioneers rather than Gear and Rigging. I am the current owner of a Strato Flyer (160 sq ft) in good condition, and I am currently planning on jumping it in a few weeks. I'm after any views on the canopy, flying / flaring / packing techniques, and the benefit of any other adive you might be able to offer (I have had the advice about not jumping it, booking the ambulance in advance, etc :-) ) I am planning on using a D-bag, which I am advised wasn't the norm, back in the day. Wing loading on the Strato Flyer = about 1.15. I have about 720 lobs, currently flying a Safire 2 169 and a Stiletto 170. Thanks, Darren

The Irish Parachute Club - 1956 http://www.skydive.ie/about/

Thank you

Nice video, both content and quality

The Silhouette is a great canopy. I've jumped a Sabre 2, a Safire 2, a Stilleto, and the usual student type canopies. It's not quite as good, performance-wise, as the Sabre 2 or the Safire 2, but it is not far off (in my view), and it is a cinch to pack. I am surprised I don't see more of them about. I think that they are great canopies :-)

It is, undoubtedly, a shit situation. All I say is this. Gary sorted me back in the day (4 years ago), and it was all good / above and beyond etc. I am disappointed for him and his customers. I have never doubted that he has tried to make it easier for people to get gear.

That's really interesting. I don't know davelepka, chuckakers or diablopilot (who seem to be on the ASSHOLES list), I've never even jumped in their country. But having been jumping for a few years, and been on dropzone.com quite a lot longer than I've been jumping, I have a very short list of people whose posts deserve attention and (your word) respect because they have a strong tendency towards good advice, and an obvious, long-term commitment to keeping other jumpers alive. All three of those ASSHOLES are on that very short list. Just something for you to think about, whoever you are. [edit: It's entirely possible I Have Been Trolled. But unlikely as it is, it's also entirely possible you're serious. If you are, think harder. Also, skydive more, it'll make people's tone on forums seem pretty irrelevant.] Same here. I post little, but these three gents consistently offer sound advice, which I greatly appreciate.

I have a V348 with a Sabre 2 170 and a PD 160. Not a problem to pack.

I use Adidas Climacool Elevation sunglasses (with a very light tint), with a prescription insert. (I'm about -7 in each eye) They work pretty well, although the inserts do fog a little, although not so much as to be a problem. I also use them with the 'arms' they come with and a strap I bought seperately. I wasn't keen on the elastic strap they come with.

Here it is. Link at the bottom of the page: http://www.pointzero.co.uk/workshop.htm

Excellent. I could not agree more.

Ireland would have been a lot better off today if the Nation had not been oppressed by english for a millenium. I am glad you are gone. Slan.

I was chatting with a guy this evening who had his Tony sent back for an alteration. He got it from the UK to the States and back in 10 days.