pirana

Must be my lucky day. Another topic I'm passionate about. When you screw up, you lose certain rights. End of story. The ACLU has got this one all wrong. You simply make it known that if you get a DUI you will lose all privacy rights when it comes to operating a vehicle. You should be visibly identifiable, you will be subject to search at all times, and you will be watched like a hawk Consider yourself lucky to be allowed to drive at all. On this one I am fairly Draconian. If you have had 5 DUI's, you should never be allowed behind the wheel again for the rest of your life, because to get that many you must be driving drunk on a very regular basis. If caught violating - straight to jail. I don't care if they rot there until they die. Too fucking bad. Should have thought about it more, and/or gotten help sometime before the 5th DUI. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

So what process would you suggest to prevent the criminal and the unbalanced from getting guns and thereby giving gun owners a bad name? My concern exactly. I'm not purely anti-gun, but we have a real problem with access. We need systems that keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people. Strictly personal opinion, but I don't think making access easier is a viable solution. My leaning would be to make it difficult, fault on the side of conservative issuance, to get a permit or buy a gun (and even to own one). I'm strongly in favor of extensive background checks, relatively low threshholds for denial, relatively long waiting periods, and very stiff penalties for violations. Any crime over a petty misdemeanor - no permit. Got a history of DWI, slapping your wife around, getting in barfights, etc - no gun for you. Such standards would not have allowed that Hmong maniac to murder the folks in the woods here in Wisconsin. There were several calls to his house for domestic violence - why the hell was that asshole allowed to own a gun. He was quite demonstrably not capable of controlling himself. I had a cousin that served in Vietnam. Flew an EVAC chopper. Shot down 7 times, came home decorated to the hilt. A true hero. Working hard to get his H&C business off the ground, on his way home one day, stops in a bar for a 6-pak (Illinois) and some drunken bar-brawling idiot misread a situation and shoots him dead. He basically executed my cousin in cold blood because in his drunken stupor he thought he heard an insult. Pathetic. I'm not Draconian about it, but something has got to change. Too many of the wrong people have access, and they find it too easy to kill. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Oh, that's good, very good. I would chime in that the US has behaved the same way as every other major power once we ascended to the throne. Historically, it does not seem to matter what particular individual was holding the reins. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but it does indicate that it isn't just Bush, and may not be him at all. It appears the problem is endemic throughout society. Also, it does beg a whole boatload of other questions. 1st for me is: What the heck is wrong with the human species that we can not coexist without constant major conflict? Maybe it is the nature of the beast, kind of a Darwinian approach. Don't have the answers (working on it) but an objective look at recorded history indicates no state has figured it out yet. We should keep trying, but I believe our turn will be over soon. No way enough of the world will ever trust us to give us a fighting chance at establishing a sucessful (peaceful) world order. A good guessing game would be: Who gets to try next. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Why bother with torture? It's so messy, and unreliable, and there's this whole ethics arguement. Two words: Truth serum. Works like magic. Unless people consider that torture too. Anybody who has been put out SLOWLY with sodium pentathol knows that a person has absolutely no will power while under a certain level of it's influence. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

But he only purjured himself because they were asking questions about stuff that was none of their business. He should have just said "It's none of your business." I do not lie, but I have no qualms about saying "I'm not going to tell you" to nosy people. Dilemma is, they were going to find him at fault either way. Guilty of purjury, or guilty of sin (in their eyes). " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

So much depends on how you define miracle. If you mean that something highly improbable happened to you, such as beating 14 million to 1 odds and winning the lottery - that's just a matter of probablilities working themselves out over a large population. That's a pretty liberal criteria for being a miracle, especially since it had to happen. If you think it is a miracle because it happened to you, then you concede that everytime the lottery is won, it is a miracle (at least for somebody). This kind of event is luck, but not a miracle. Just a matter of odds. The person that had the stroke, and lived near the hospital with the experimental treatment - hardly a miracle. Someone near that hospital was eventually going to have a stroke and be saved - just a matter of probabilities that it would happen - and a matter of luck as to who the specific individual would be. Just a matter of odds. When you are dealing with billions of people, and thousands of years (of recorded history), some seemingly unlikely things are going to happen at least occassionally. Just a matter of odds. Like the grilled cheese with Mary on it. After the human species has cooked up billions and billions of grilled cheese sandwiches, somewhere there's gonna be one that will carry a fascimile of Mary. Just a matter of odds. Just because something happens with low frequency doesn't make each occurence a miracle. If you believe the laws of physics are immutable, miracles - by definition - do not occur. Believing in miracles is believing that the laws of physics are occassionally suspended. By what method and for what intentions gets into a whole different debate. I'll leave it at that. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

We celebrate Christmas because it is fun to give and receive, because we love the way the kids light up, and primarily because it is a time when we get together with family from far away. We are not religious (follow no organized religion anyway), but I abhor political correctness and refuse to call it Winter Holiday. I know of no other culture outside the US that works so hard to sanitize their heritage and deny their traditions for the sake of being PC. I also feel justified, and not a hypocrite, because all the Christian holidays are borrowed from pagan rituals that were in existence long before Christ. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That's a good point about there being so many gloom & doom stories (earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, diseases, etc.). Struck me as I was reading it that the fact that those things WILL happen eventually, but are impossible to pin down, is what makes them scary, and at the same time leads to complacency. We've had 3 of the 4 very recently. And we'll have them again. But those 3 are geological & meteorological in nature, and are a part of the Earth's physycal systems. Tough to predict and impossible to stop. With this flu thing though, we know how they evolve, we know how to dramatically reduce risk, we know the consequences of ignoring the risk, we know what has to be done if/when the outbreak occurs. So how does the President become a bad guy for asking Congress to pony up the cash and get busy on reducing the risk and planning for recovery? Well, as you might have guessed, I have an opinion: It's the Rush effect of finding words of praise for your party no matter what they do, and for finding words of denigration for the other party no matter what they do. I'm not a fan of this administration, but feel for them a bit in that 50% of the populace is going to find fault with everything he does just because of who he is. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Get a history lesson. The threat to us starterd when we took sides between the Arabs and Jews after WWII. When you take sides in a fight, you earn enemies. I won't debate why we took a side or why we took the one we did - that's for another debate. But the seeds for today's problem were sowed when we decided to play a significant role in the region, and decided to support the State of Israel. (Israel would never haved survived to this day without our backing. It has essentially served the role of US military outpost. Without our support they would have been crushed out of existrence). We took an interest in the region (for obvious reasons), and we chose our allies. We prop up puppet regimes, and just as readily take them out when the situation changes. We practice situational ethics of the worst sort. We supplied the arms and funds for the Turks to carry out genocide on the Kurds, then embrace the Kurds when it looks like they could help us. This conflict is about oil & money and the desire of our leaders to maintain as much influence in the region as possible. If it was because Saddam is a bad man, well then we need to invade a whole lot more places - with Saudi Arabia near the top of the list. Talk about Middle Age barbarians. The Roman Empire fell because they were bullies. Basically they insisted on imposing their culture on everyone. A fine example of what can happen when a group of egotistical, arrogant, bullies thinks they have all the answers and that everyone should be just like them. They were crushed by the people they abused. They were not some kind benevolent group of did not deserve what they got. As far as why they don't like us - see all of the above. We come up with excuses to stick our nose in other people's business. So now we attacked Iraq over human rights issues? What a joke. It's a good thing some other nation did not take it upon themselves to invade & conquer us before we evolved out of slavery, apartheid, our treatment of Native Americans, women as 2nd class citizens, etc. Bottom line, we take what we want, impose our will and culture without regard for others, and change alliances at the drop of a coin. To somehow paint what we have done as honorable and noble is a crock of shit. And again, get a history lesson that goes back farther than what is just convenient for you. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

QuoteI really don't understand how people can deny the existence of God, there has to be a higher being for the universe to exist... the whole basis of Christianity is that we're all sinners but if you turn to Jesus then you have a way out... *** Why does there HAVE TO be? Because you wish it that way, or because you have evidence, or because someone told you so? In my world, the only things that HAVE TO be are when I see solid unequivocal evidence; not a single-source, 2000 year old tautology. And that whole sinner and salvation bit. What a scam. Convince everyone they are sinners, then offer your chosen belief as the salvation. Almost as farcical as the immaculate conception. What a joke to take that one literally. I'm sure every 16 year old pregnant girl wishes they could get away with that line. "Honestly, I didn't have sex, it was an immaculate conception." Claptrap. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

There are a boatload of other countries and dictators that fit that bill. Should we just start invading them all? How exactly are all the people with those ribbon-shaped magnets supporting our troops? How do you support them - other than the taxes you pay - for which you have no choice but to pay? Maybe just knowing they are there dying, and feeling it is OK for them to do so just for the sake of a little cheaper prices per barrel is a form of support. "I giveth thee permission to die for the sake of cheaper gasoline." There, now I support the troops too. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

And now you've exposed the incompetence of this administration. Of course they didn't think it would be like this. However, most of the top brass at the pentagon WARNED them it would be like this, but they ignored them. No idea that doesn't come from themselves is ever considered by them to have any validity. Personally, I don't see that as a good leadership quality. All the experts did warn them, including Colin Powell. His sense of loyalty and being a team player kept him from fighting with all he had; and he eventually aquiesced. But he and most other military experts had this pegged perfectly. Which is why the Bush inner circle tightened and cut them out of the discussions and decision-making process. They did not want to hear it. Concieted egotistical bastards. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Quite the quandry. There was no significant terrorist activity in Iraq that was a threat to the US under Hussein. But he was an easy target, like stepping on a bug. And now that we have exterminated the big bad bug, all the little bugs have come out of the woodwork and are a threat to us. Now there is terrorist activity in Iraq that is a threat to us. We started a war that created a problem that causes us to not be able to have not started the war to begin with. It's just a step to the right And do the Bush-warp twist And put your hands on your hips To do the pelvic thrust I would think that after the 3rd or 4th revision of their explanation of why we needed to attack Iraq most would no longer buy into their BS. But there is no logic to blind loyalty. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Good points. My take on our justice system is that it is almost always about telling stories. There are situations that are open and shut cases where there are so many corroborating witnesses or so much clear evidence that there is absolutely no doubt. But usually it is 2 sides telling their story and the judge and/or a jury has to decide which story they believe. Our legal system is pretty good, though from what I've read the Brit's is better. In ours, everyone is not commited to tell the truth - regardless of the words in the oath. Bottom line - whoever can do the better job of convincing the judge and/or jury their story is true, wins. The fact that more money buys better storytellers is another issue, and just the way the world works. I've never liked the idea that the odds are he seems to have gotten away with murder, but the whole thing unfolded in a perfectly predictable manner given the workings of our system. And it appears the only people who will ever truly KNOW what happened are OJ and anyone with whom he may have fully confided. There is the possibility he has fully confided in no one. We may never KNOW for sure what happened, but we know how our system resolved the situation - and that should not be a surprise to anyone. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I do believe George is being euphemistic in saying God speaks to him. I believe it is revealed in the statement where he said he "feels" God's words coming. (I hope he doesn't feel God, . . . coming). If he really thinks he hears God's words, with his ears, then he is off his rocker. The supernatural power insinuated by saying he actually hears God is just as wacky as someone who says they are God. What the hell, . . . I'm God. Now do I get the job as antichrist? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Check out www.tomcruiseisnuts.com He has fallen down in the fuzzy world of psuedo-science and can't get up. Scientology is a total scam. The simple answer to the posted question is YES. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Good post, and yes it is the sign of a largely whiny populace that there is so much complaining but so little real effort to change. Stop electing the same genre of people over and ovewr again. Bottom line though is that humans, like all animals, resist change at a very deep level. It's part of survival. Better the evil you know (as well as the comforts they provide) than the evil you don't know. It's why genetics, and not freedom of will, works as a change agent for the natural world, because genes have no mind and blindly allow adaptation without any kind of sentience that could resist change. But I digress. I really just wanted to nominate myself for a cabinet post. I want the one that gives me Wednesday nights off for skydiving. Perjaps the Minister of Silly Walks. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That whole born again thing is such a joke. My stanrd reply is: "Excuse me for getting it right the first time!" And the robotic, lockstep level of buy-in to dogma that would result in locking out family is more evidence that convinces me it is actually a mild form of mental illness. The ironic thing is that a lot of the same people, for the same reasons, buy into the pagan-like garbage of astrology too. But then again, who said the slightly tilted should ever be expected to be consistent. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

If you want a discussion on this, perhaps you should post a brief paragraph on what this "Dover" case is all about, to pique interest. Personally, I don't care to go chasing down a blog site to find out. Didn't want to post a summary, since it wll be added to everyday. Just wanted to let folks know where they could go for a daily update. Yeah, the title could have been more descriptive, and I could have at least gotten the case name right. Thanx. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as far as thoughtful words, but this is basically quoting scripture and using the Bible to prove itself. The Bible is nothing more than a tautology when used in this manner. It is using assumptions as evidence and only proves that believing is a matter of faith. Believing is not proof of anything other than what you believe. Having faith is what some people need, and if they need it and have it, that is a good thing. However, it does not translate to supporting the level of ignorance that some display in using literal interpretation of the Bible to declare truthful what are obvious falsehoods about the natural world. That is where my angst comes from regarding those that wish to insert Biblical writings about the natural world into a science curriculum. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

As there are women that would still vote against a female candidate, as they feel that a woman's place is in the home So now we are back to anyone would vote for anybody else for whatever reason. The point is disproportionate bias as a result of a novelty (or at least new) condition. I hope the percentage of unreasoning nuts is small and the opposing nuts will tend to cancel each other out. But the more I know people the more I find that these polarized groups of activist nuts are a much bigger proportion of the populace than I originally thought. Not to hijack a thread, but these are the best examples off the top of my head. The fact that greater than 50% of adult citizens think evolution is false, and that roughly 1/3 think astrology is accurate enough to put stock in, tells me that there is a high proportion of people that can not critical think their way out of a wet paper bag (even the new thin versions that can't be filled more than half way). Every reason you can think of to vote for or against somebody, no matter how ridiculous we may think it is, will come into play on election day. It's why most people making a serious run at high public office MUST come out as so wishy-washy. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I do not agree with her political leanings, but respected her as a person, until the aforementioned carpetbagger antics. Not to mention blatantly whorish attempts to get votes; one day she's a Mets fan, next day she's wearing a skullcap, whatever it takes to get a photo op and some votes. But what I'm really disappointed in is a poll on DZ.com about a woman for Prez that did not have an option or follow up comments that mentioned boobies. People are slipping. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Didn't know which thread to post to, so will just do this. Here's a link to the ALCU's weblog on the Dover case. Good summary each day. http://aclupa.blogspot.com/ " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

The world is not sinking, but the oceans are on a rise, albeit quite slow. There are bits of the world here and there that are submergence zones, like NO. There are also bits that are emergent zones; I think FL is one of them. It does seem foolish to rebuild a metroplois in a submergence zone, unless you're going to get really really serious about it like the Dutch. If I recall correctly, they have recently wrapped up some major work and have a few experts available. Perhaps a partial rebuilding, using the best engineers and technologies available, of only the areas that are salvageable long-term (i.e. - not expected to go below sea level for at least 2 centuries) and that also have historical and cultural significance. Course then you run the risk of turning it into another Disney. That's a tough call between sauerkraut and cajun. How about gumbo for breakfast, spaetzel for lunch, and a little kraut and jambalaya buffet for dinner? That'll make for some fabulous windage on load number 1 the next day! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

We've noticed the aversion to shoes. We'll get him some mucklucks before the 1st snow (should be any day now). " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley