GeorgiaDon

Oops, my bad. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Do conservatives have no sense of context? WTF? Think about it. The president gives a talk about setting personal goals in education, and working hard to meet those goals. Nothing more. Immediately afterward, the kids are asked "to engage in a discussion about what the president wants us to do". Rational people would recognize that there is a connection between the speach and the question. Why would anyone conclude that the "correct answer" would have anything to do with matters that were not specifically discussed in the speach? How can people who think like that even function? Teacher: How much is 2 plus 2? Student: Australia! Teacher: 2 plus 2 is 4. How did you get "Australia"? Student: Well last week you were talking about where kangaroos live. Only if you think "Australia" was a good answer. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

A while ago you posted a link to a paper that showed that premiums tend to be higher in states that regulate minimum standards of care that must be covered by an insurance plan (what you call mandates). I pointed out that the paper did not examine the quality of the coverage (is the plan any good if you get sick?) in states with and without mandates. Sure, premiums can be low if the insurer can drop you, or deny necessary procedures and you are left with no avenue to appeal in time to save your life, but that coverage is worth nothing. So what if it covers homeopathy or colonotherapy if it won't cover oncology, and they don't tell you that until you need treatment. Mandates were brought in because of questionable business practices on the part of some (not saying all) insurers. What specific mandates would you like to see dropped, and why? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Directly from the article Ryoder posted: Several other examples of specific instances of patients being denied life-saving care are given in the article. Perhaps you just prefer to not see them because they conflict with your ideal that private industry can do no wrong? I think telling a 57-year-old that his cancer is not worth treating because he is "too old" is the epitome of the "death panel" scenario. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I could not be more in agreement. Again agree completely. Unfortunately sometimes people do do things that hurt others, and I think it's one of the major responsibilities of government (acting according to the wishes of the people) to deal with them. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

What is your alternative? Lynch mobs? Family feuds? Duels? Just curious. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

100% in agreement. Somehow though your tone comes across as much more reasonable than "In all seriousness. If I had a kid is school today, I would either be there or pull my kid unless I knew before hand what the topic was." There is a difference between wanting to know what your child has heard, so that you can discuss with them whether you agree or disagree, and implying that listening to the POTUS is so dangerous that his speach has to be censored. I probably agreed with about 5% of Bush's policies. I'd never deny my kids the chance to see the president speak because of that. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

You also don't need to skydive or engage in other activities that have a significant risk of resulting in costly injuries, if you can't ensure that you can pay for it in a timely manner (timely being within the bounds of what the hospital will be willing to negotiate of course). Of course not, nobody said they were. Look, I'm fine with the idea of "I don't expect anyone to pay for it other than myself", if a person can really do that. For a broken tib/fib or wrist, certainly that's doable. If we're talking about a major injury (multiple broken bones, maybe brain injury) resulting in multiple surgeries, months in the hospital, and a year of PT, then we're talking about bills in the hundreds of thousands or even $1,000,000+ (look up Dead Mike some time). Lets say we're talking about $100,000 in bills; paying that off at $20/month for the "rest of my life" would take 417 YEARS at NO interest. I guess that's why I took that comment to be flip and possibly even intentionally disparaging to medical professionals. If I misinterpreted I'm sorry, but to me that's much like getting excellent service and a first-class meal in a restaurant, and then tipping 2 cents and getting in a Lexus to drive home. Somehow that's more insulting than "forgetting" to tip altogether. $20 a month isn't even one skydive; if you can afford to jump you can afford more than that. Realistically you should be thinking along the lines of $800/month for a long time (10 yrs or more). If you can afford to "self-insure" it's a safe bet that you can afford a high-deductible insurance policy that will knock your share of that $100,000 down to maybe $10,000 and not screw over the doctors as a bonus. No-one likes to think about it, but what happens in the case where a jumper is seriously injured, racks up big bills, then eventually dies. If they don't have medical insurance it's a pretty sure bet they don't have life insurance either, in which case all those doctors and nurses who worked to try to save the jumper are left with nothing. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Well OK. I don't personally know anyone who supports the idea that people who are not citizens, or who haven't gone through the process to come here legally, should be able to work or collect government benefits. I am aware that people that believe that do exist, for example many of the church groups that work with such "immigrants" advocate for an open door policy. I think they are 1) few in number, 2) not living in the real world, and 3) out of their minds. Really, are there Congressmen who advocate throwing the doors completely open and not exercising any control on who comes into the country? I mean American politicians; I know there's a lot on the Mexican side of the border who'd love that. $$ sent home from America takes a lot of pressure off them to deal with their own problems. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Yeah, like rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright! I actually don't know any "liberals" who would object to that. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Don't forget to get a good night's sleep so you look fresh for your public when you do report it. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Thanks for the link Marc, it was an interesting read. There is no doubt that regulatory mandates increase the cost (premiums) of insurance, and the article does show that. What I wonder about is if mandates increase the value to the customer (benefits recieved/premium cost) more than they increase the cost. If an insurer only covers you when you are healthy, and they can kick you off the plan if you get seriously sick, premiums can be low because they get to keep the premiums they collect when you are healthy and hardly pay out anything. Sure the premiums are low, but the coverage is worthless. Similarly if the plan covers lots of flashy but useless things like homeopathy and colonotherapy and toad licking or whatever, but buried deep in the 500 page book of "explainations" that you only get to see after you have purchased the plan is a notice that mental health benefits are not covered, the plan may not be as much of a bargain as it looks at first. Unfortunately many insurance companies engaged in such practices, which is what led to the mandates in the first place. I'm not saying that all insurers would behave in such a manner if they were unregulated, but it used to be common practice. Even today you have to be an exceptionally savy consumer who has a good grasp of medical risk, which involves the probablility of incurring a disease factored by the cost of treatment, in order to effectively compare plans and shop wisely. I'm just saying there is more to value, which is protection from catastrophic expenses in the event of a serious injury/disease, than just low premiums. The paper you linked discussed only cost (premiums), it said nothing about value. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

+1 This thread has drifted so much it's now gone completely off the bridge and is upside down in Chappaquiddick bay. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Perhaps, if only those people who are legally entitled to work here could be hired, the market for labor would tighten up and employers would find they need to offer decent wages to find employees willing to work for them. The only "forcing" would be by market forces, with no need for governmental intervention. Hey, it's worth a try. Heh, how's that for a "liberal plot". Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Virtually every conservative who has posted on this topic advocates summary execution. What's up with you guys? Are you really such a bloodthirsty bunch? Is that the limit of your imagination, just kill kill kill? Is that how you would deal with a problem neighbour? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Well, thanks for that constructive suggestion. Aren't you a minister or preacher or something like that? Nice reflection of Christian values there. Is that how you spread the Word by example? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Since you are one of the few people who post here who actually experience our health care system every day, I'd really appreciate it you would comment on: 1) is there a problem with how health care is delivered or paid for in the US? 2) if there is a problem in your opinion, do you have any ideas about what to do about it? I know you're busy but I'd really like to hear your opinion. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Or a frog. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

OK, try this. Get a bottle and put a couple of cm depth of water in it, then add some liquid detergent and swish it around to mix it but don't make too many bubbles. Then put a piece of banana in there. The banana will attract the fruit flies, and when they land on the soapy water they'll stick and drown. That will reduce numbers of flies quite a bit if you have a lot flying around, but might not be so effective if you've only got one or two. Also check around your place and get rid of any overripe fruit that could be attracting flies in from outside or allowing them to breed. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Cool. I'm going to order a brand new custom rig with a skyhook, Cypres II, and all the bells and whistles, from a well known skydiving gear shop. I thought I'd have to save for a long time to be able to pay for it, but now I know I can pay it off $20 a month! I'm a little surprised the gear shop won't mind that they have to pay thousands up front, and won't get paid back for years, but if they're cool with it so am I. Hey, with a business model like that maybe they'll go out of business and I'll never have to pay up. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

No, don't turn off the monitor! If you do that, then it'll fly up your nose and lay 10,000 eggs, which will hatch into maggots that will burrow into your brain. Trust me, I'm an entomologist. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Classy! I hope that's not your best foot you're putting forward there. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Thanks for the "heads-up", Warped. FYI, a paragraph should contain text relating to a single idea or topic. Different topics or ideas should be dealt with in different paragraphs. Complex ideas may take more than one sentence to convey. Problems of immigration, or health care, or the economy are complex. Please note the above paragraph. Best regards, Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

This is your boss. Get the fuck back to work and stop watching videos!! Good job flying. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Thanks you for the link. I'm going to print it up and keep it in my gear bag, so I can give it to people as I discover they can use it. Just a head's-up to people who do go to that site, be sure to read the plans carefully and not just go for the cheapest. I clicked on a few, and the less expensive ones have copays in the range of 30% for emergency/hospital care. A $100,000 injury, easy to do in skydiving, will still leave you with $30,000 + annual deductible (typically $3-5,000), which is easily enough to bankrupt most people. At least the doctors/hospital will get 70% of their expenses, not great but better than settling for nothing. A slightly more expensive plan will lower the copays to the point where you won't bankrupt yourself/family/friends. Even that, for an 18-25 yr old, is only about 4 skydives/month. I agree with the other sentiments you expressed also. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)