greeny

Jumping a low E a few moths ago I did 7 in a day. I only went out to do one but the forecast wind never buit, how could I leave. The first 6 could not have gone better, but tied and dehydrated the 7th exit was uncommitted and gave me 90L into a very hard tallis landing. The whole thing was very much a chase of just getting one more in and being over confident from the previous 6 perfect jumps. Result badly bruised ribs and heals and 3 weeks of walking on my toes watching others jump. Greeny edited for spelling

Do you all also climb down in zero wind?? If you jump with wind in the middle of the sector, a percentage of the wind is pushing you away from the wire. If you open facing the wire your approach speed towards the wire equals canopy speed minus the push off factor of the wind speed. All the wind is also pushing you away from the tower. Obviously idea conditions! If you jump with the wind directly down the wire, 100% of the wind is pushing you along the wire. The wind not pushing you away from it, but it is also not pushing you on to it. If you open facing the wire your approach speed equals your canopy speed, but if you open facing the tower all the wind is pushing you away from the tower, parallel to (not on to, or off) the wire. If you jump in Zero wind there is obviously no wind pushing you onto or away from the wire. If you open facing the wire your approach speed towards the wire equals your canopy speed and if you open facing the tower, your approach speed towards the tower equals your canopy speed. Obviously all winds in the above are the wind at opening altitude and this can be very different from the wind at exit or landing due to wind sheer. Wind can obviously increase the chance of an off heading, but if you jump with the wind directly down the left wire and open with a 90L you have no more chance of hitting the wire than you do if you jump in zero wind and have a 90L. But that said you have more chance of having said 90L Greeny

The pic I posted is my best guess at what Tom is talking about and need to get him to confirm it. I have not jumped that set up. I use climbing tape (Tubular webbing) with a Fig 8 knot to form a loop at each end. Fig8's are very strong and easy to tie but can be a bitch to get out. If my anchors are in anyway suspect I back them up as per a 2 or 3 anchor climbing belay. If you are worried that you knot might slip leave a longer tail or for extra security put a couple of half hitches in the tail so it can't slip. look here for picures: http://www.indoorclimbing.com/Figure_8_Knot.html Greeny

Tom, Is this Picture any closer? Greeny

Guys, Too much gets miss interprited both ways here. I am down and digging. If we talked face to face i'm sure we would all have less problem with each other. I am out of here: Greeny

Robi, My attack on Han solo isn't ment to be personal I don't claim to know him or his ability My problem is as much as anything with all the general politics that is curently in BASE. but please explain one thing [PS Rob's death is not in any relation w proximity flying..] Greeny

Sorry if I jumped to conclusions over your link I read your post, but didn’t see the link. But that is where my apology stops…………………… I don't worship them as GODS as you put it but I do approve of people taking opportunities when they are offered Sometimes we are fully prepared and can pull it off with ease Sometimes we are not but are given a choice jump it now or you will never jump it At this point we have to make a decision, go or no go! If we waited until we were always fully prepared we would never step off the edge I also see a big difference between Jeb and Luigi’s jumps and the shit on U-Tube I don’t like BASE posts on U-Tube but then I don’t like any posts on U-Tube Its all a little too much look at me for my liking. But, Jeb and Luigi are sponsored by Go fast They are paid to advertise a drink The footage they produce creates the publicity that achieves the media attention Go fast want. Just like the Red Bull guys do To do that they are given assets and access we can only dream of being able to afford If someone had offered me a place on the load I would have jumped at it Would I have cared if I was the best man for the job? No! Would I have cared if I was good enough in YOUR opinion? No! It is always very easy to stand on the side lines and pick fault with the guy who steps up to the plate to be tested. With reference to the post you linked to: People were Proximity flying as you call it way before sub-terminal was released They were doing it before Rob miss judged the ledge in Norway When the guy in the videos goes in you will earn the right to stand over his grave and say I told you so, but until then he has the right to do things his way. Just as you have the right to jump things your way. Non skydivers don’t understand why skydivers jump Skydivers don’t understand why BASE jumpers jump BASE Some BASE jumpers seem to have a problem understanding why other are happy to push the limits that bit further. One thing I do like about Jeb is he doen't give a fuck what we all think Greeny

Han-Solo, You seem very quick to say they failed? Where is your problem? Is it Jeb, Luigi & the publicity? or is it the jump and the way 'YOU SEE IT' went? You refer to the other ‘Jeb flaming thread’, it just makes you sound like your problem is jealousy?? I say let them decide if they succeeded or not . Yes every jump has some thing we can learn from, but from looking at the video. My take is: They jumped, one or more of the flew under the arm & they both lived. Sound successful to me. I know from climbing if we climb, we retch the top and we bring every one home we had a successful trip. At least they are out there doing what they want, doing it their way Isn’t that what BASE is all about (and no I don’t care if they got out of a helicopter, or weather it was actually a BASE jump or not, so what) All sounds a little too much like BASE politics to me. It scares me that we have so many sheep even in BASE! Greeny

Tom, I agree completely, we are all bias towards what we jump. I have Zero jumps under a Blackjack All my jumps have been on Mojos, Foxs & Flicks I can not say this is better than that but I can say the foxs & flicks which I have put a lot of jumps on from terminal to low freefall and I am very happy with their performance. The Mojo worked well for 90 jumps but I wanted something with vents. I am just trying to balance the tread. If they are coming up saying the BlackJack is the Dog's then there should be someone saying there is more than one good canopy out there look at the all, listen to everyone then decide. Greeny

Composite top skins are only for people who can't pack / are scaried to pack full ZP Top Skins Buy a Flick (great all round canopy) Greeny

With reference to another local SoCal A: Please don't jump it in day light Please make your first light jumps at first light (not mid morning) Just because the guy isn't there on weekend doesn't make it OK to day blaze it. We are limited on sites as it is down here, lets keep the ones we have. Greeny

Good job guys, Just guessing but flying slightly dirty would give you the ability to climb relitive to you flight path. If you cut it close maxed out you have nothing left if you get low. Greeny

My canopy was built as a specialist low freefall canopy; it was never intended to go past 1 sec delays. When you saw it being jumped there it was also set in excessively deep brakes, which have since been adjusted. Vents on most canopies have been sized to give you a balance between pressurisation on all delays and not driving backwards excessively on any. Mine was designed around a 0-1sec delay only. Before Todd built the canopy for me he told me if I took it past a 1 sec delay it would back up on opening. This backing up is caused because so much air enters the canopy through the enlarged vents that once the canopy is full pressurised the extra air still coming in has no where to go but out of the nose. This air rushing out of the nose is what drives the canopy backwards. Sub 200ft freefall (instant delay) & Static line the canopy is working great, it is both pressurising and transitioning from open to flying very fast. Greeny

Bridle Length for Low free fall: If I am taking any sort of delay I keep the full 9ft of bridle so my PC is clear of the burble. Most of my low freefalls so far I have kept my full 9ft bridle. As I exit I throw my PC underarm ‘UP’ to bridle extension. The Idea is to get the PC above me at bridle extension just as I start to drop. This causes the tension to comes on the fully extended bridle and inflate / keep the PC inflated. I have seen the pitch done ‘overarm’ like throwing a basketball, but underarm works better for me. As I said the idea is to get the PC 9ft above my head so as I put tension on the bridle (by starting to fall) the PC just rolls over and inflates. I have 25 Freefalls from 173ft, 3 from 160ft & 1 from 190ft all using the above technique. The biggest inconsistency I have noticed is getting the PC inflated first time, every time. When my throw up technique works right my pins are being pulled as the PC comes back past head height on the exit ledge. When the PC does not reach bridle extension at the time the tension comes on the bridle it can drop me anything up to 20ft lower. This is the time it has taken for my PC to inflate and lift. Problems can come from: PC not thrown hard enough, it never reaches 9ft PC reaches bridle extension too early and starts to descend again Anything that causes slack in the bridle will mean that slack has to be taken up before the PC inflates and grips the air. I believe there is almost no burble due to V-low airspeed and head high body position. My main reason for trying shorter bridles on low freefall is to find a way to get the PC inflation more consistent. I have got 5 or 6 jumps on is an ‘Arms Length Bridle’ This bridle was cut so when my right arm is at full extension I have 2inchs of slack from my pins to my PC attachment point. So far for my low ‘short bridle jumps’ I have laid the PC on the top of my hand and just left it in the air on exit. I have video of this working perfectly (5.9sec canopy ride from 173ft) but I have also had it drop me low. I think the hesitation in this case was because the PC center line as not extended and there for the PC took time to inflate. A way I now prefer but have not jumped bellow 200ft yet is to stand on the exit and holding my PC by the attachment point I wave it in the air to inflate it. I do this inflation wave up and down. I exit as I get it to the top thereby having a fully inflated PC as I leave the exit point. The reason for the short bridle is to put tension on the PC and keep it inflated as soon as you exit. If you use 9ft bridle and exit with a PC preinfated the tension is not there until you have fallen to bridle extension, thereby giving a chance for the PC to close up again and hesitate before re opening. I need to play with this more but think it will work well. My thinking is that if I can get my PC inflated perfectly every time it will remove one of the major variables from my low freefall. On my PC Throw up jumps this variable has been about 20 – 30ft Exiting from 160ft I have a margin of error that can cover this, but as I try to come lower this will no longer be acceptable I know 143ft has been freefalled and believe 120ft is repeatable if we can get it consistent. The 120ft estimate is based on my current opening altitudes / canopy times off 170ft & 160ft freefalls. As Tom said: “Predictability ought to be the main goal of an ultra low freefall system”. Greeny My set up: Rig 1) FOX 265, ZP Top skin, Multi, 5th Line with ‘Normal’ V-Tec vents, in a Vertex 2 Rig 2) FOX 243, ZP Top skin, Multi, 5th line with enlarged V-Tec and short lines, in a DP (By enlarged V-Tec I mean I had my V-Tec doubled in size on all cells (except the end cells) including the center cell. My lines we also shortened by 10% to cup the canopy more there by keeping more of the air trapped under the bottom skin and driving it through the vents. The 5th line also helps with this by pulling more of the tail of the canopy down. This canopy pressurizes fast.

Busy today will try to post video ect tonight / tomorow Greeny

Guy's buy / borrow the full series it is the best fotage of the planet out there and the making it sections are awsome. Very very worth watchng it all It has won many awards if you like that get he blue planet Greeny

Calvin, Give me vents, ZP top skin, 48zp unvented PC Let me preinflate my PC on a 4ft bridle and I'm in, you will survive but I don't want to just survive I want to walk away so I am going to be chicken and ask for an extra 20ft 120ft should be repeatable! but i still need to work down to it 160ft is my lowest FF and I only have 3 jumps off it so far. Greeny

Quote [Greeny read this whole thread. there are cases of SL failure, and i remember a story posted here of a bridal connection point being torn off from a 'hung' SL- tearing the parachute. ] Calvin, 2 points: 1st) I did read the whole thread you misunderstood my question. Has any one ever seen a SL hang up leaving the jumper suspended from the object? Suspended from the bridle with the rigg still closed Or Suspended at line stretch? I have seen it on a military aircraft SL but never have heard of it on a BASE jump. My thinking: Jakey was talking about rubber bands as closing loops so they would break rather than hang you up. 2nd) Quote: [i still dont see whats wrong with a dbag. its the same thing. better heading performance, faster opening speed, more reliable, no bridal at all...} D-Bags work great if you have a friend at the top and your D-Bag is a pre planned jump. I know you can D-Bag in places with no SL anchor (but you can fashion anchors in most any place with a little imagination) But reference your comment: I will come out and SL anything you D-Bag (as long as I can get an anchor) I have never had an off heading on an SL and I have never seen one. I know you can do it, but every time I have heard of it, it has been rigging error (miss routed bridle ect.) I have SL’ed 90ft on to concrete (trust me my SL opens fast). If you will D-Bag it I will SL it! A D-Bag is only as reliable as the guy who packed it / held it A SL is only as reliable as the guy who Packed it and set it up Properly set up and routed I have zero issues with reliability on a SL jump Bridle length on a SL can be anything: I have a E where we double it to clear the ledge I have also tied my break cord straight to the shrivel flap of my Perigee 2 (no bridle) And most combinations in between (PC or no PC) My point: BASE Techniques are just a tool box: Learn to be proficient with as many options as possible Don’t get fixed / blinkered into just one technique It is just about taking the best tool and fitting it to the job (jump) in hand Greeny

Quote: [I dont think that unvented canopyes should be used in such low envioment,to me its the same as using skydive gear off a huge cliff,theres no reasson..] That I agree with. On 173ft SL's I have seen non vented canopies land more than once with end cell closers. Quote: [SL 240ft and and 3secs of canopy ride??? Somthing bad has to be happend there,i get longer canopy rides freefalling 180ft.. but so do you..] The bridle was electrical taped to a frosty railing and defiantly broke / released prematurely. the PC did all the work Greeny (will PM you back in a few mins)

Quote [Take off the pilot and bridle, pins and all. Break tie a static line right onto the canopy/multi. Take two cut down rubber bands like the one used on a tailgate. Larks head one to each of the closing loops. Pull the bands up through the grommets and secure them with a pinch of the SL. Tie of the SL to the strong point. Jump.] I was just thinking that rather than using rubber bands on the closing loops and the pins through the bands, I would prefer to use a closing loop type material but with the breaking strain of a rubber bands. Rubber bands just sound like a lot of friction Could we do the same job with low braking strain spectra or the like? Just thinking though ideas: Greeny

I agree completely, If I can have a friend at the top and can't SL it I would D-Bag it. I see no reason to PCA with no PC. That would just put a huge amount of necessary pressure / responsibility on the PCA'ing friend. Imagine how he / she would feel if they dropped it an you went in. SL'ing with no PC is all my fault, I have control PCA'ing with no PC is still all your own fault (you jumped) but your friend has full control. Scary Greeny

Calvin, What I was thinking was something with very low breaking strain, but with more the propities of closing loops (10lbs spectra maybe) to do the job of the rubber bands but behave more like closing loop unless you need it to break. greeny

PC off Static Line Jumps Maybe this thread was started because I have talked to Hydoguy recently about removing my PC for curtain jumps and have all SL’ed so jumped recently without one. Firstly let me start by saying my PC (usually my 48zp) goes on about 90% of my SL jumps. It goes on every jump unless I believe it will cause me more problems then it will solves. I fully understand all the arguments for leaving a PC on and trashing PC’s (I also have an old, repaired 48 kept for SL only) is acceptable to me if it is not going to course me an additional problem. I have had an Electrical Tape SL break early. I got a 3sec canopy ride from 240ft. I had a 46ZP PC on and was very thankful for it. I changed to break cord after that jump. I have also very recently had an unexplained low opening on a 173ft E SL. I again had a large PC (48zp) on. The friend at the top said it looked from the top like it went right, but to me it felt like I freefell it and I only got a 4sec canopy ride (less than when I freefall). Again maybe my PC saved my life. I was using 2 pieces of break cord. I do not do many none PC SL’s but the jumps where I have removed my PC are where the need for forward speed / flight performance / glide ratio of my canopy out ways the risk of jumping with no PC. You all know from skydiving the difference a collapsible PC makes to your glide. I am working on that for BASE but do not have a reliable system I like yet. Examples of PC off SL jumps: 150ft B, a construction site with nasty stuff under the exit point and a spiky fence that NEEDS it be cleared. I didn’t believe I could clear the fence with a large PC on and not clearing it was unacceptable. I jumped it with no PC, I flared and lifted my feet to clear the fence. Fun Jump! Small E, with a long rocky hillside to out fly. I didn’t believe I would clear the whole talus with a PC on. I have now out flown it with no PC, so next time I will SL it with my 36 f111 and if that works I will jump it with my next size up and so on. I would like my PC on but not out flying it would put you into big rocks and power wires. I am paranoid when I jump SL with no PC, but in certain circumstances it makes a jump do-able where refusing to jump without a PC would mean not jumping. The good thing about BASE is it is a free sport and we all jump as we wish, to the level we wish. You might not all like it and I RECOMMEND IT TO NO-ONE but these jumps were very worth it to me. My SL set up with and with out my PC is the same and more than likely the same as most of the rest of you. I use the break cord APEX BASE sells (80lbs). I’m sure you can get it from other places but it is real convenient for me to get it from them. I always tie in with 2 loops. If I have the option I tie in tight to 2 separate loops on my bridle (see APEX SUPERBOWL set up) If not I tie in one tight and one loose. I adjust my bridle length depending on my jump. I use ‘carry with you SL’s on illegal jumps, unless I feel it would snag I tie in as short as possible to lower the snatch forces on my break cord I undo my pin and riser covers I prime my pins again to lower the snatch forces (I want my container to open and my pack job to lift with minimum force possible, thereby giving the break cord the best chance to stay intact) On legal jumps or places I will be returning to the exit point I set up a stay behind anchor and retrieve it later. I am paranoid about mine and my buddies bridle routing. (Arms, feet, snag points catching your bridle or PC are all bad) (sometimes the best way is to get the last jumper to lightly hold the bridles / PCs, of the other jumpers clear, extra safety is never a bad thing) I push off just enough to clear the object to minimise the pendulum effect A light push off here is better than dropping straight down as a canopy always drives forward a little. Adjust this to the jump, under hung / large ledges might mean a running exit is needed (scary on a SL jump be very very paranoid about bridle routing) You are static lining so chances are you are lower than normal, when you release your brakes let them up slowly to minimise the canopy dive. If you practice this you will see you will fly further from the object on all jumps if you let them up slow. If it is low 130f and below consider a shallow break setting and not releasing the brakes. Land on rear risers. If it is real low 100ft or below adopt the PLF position (you did learn how? Right) as you step off the exit and leave the brakes and risers alone. At this height nothing you do will help just let the canopy do its thing. Lowest by me so far: 90ft (SL attachment point height) onto concrete. A Fox 243, ZP, V-Tec, Multi It landed hard! I have also jumped 98ft onto grass on my MOJO (I don’t know if this was a lucky jump or repeatable, I was still using electrical tape and thought it was higher) 120ft onto concrete was done by 3 of use a few weeks back 2 vented canopies and on not, all were acceptable rear riser landings but the vented canopies defiantly had better pressurisation on landing.

With Velcro it is much harder to pack a total malfunction, but the pull force is less consistent / less accurately adjustable than with pins. I like my pins and there consistence for low stuff, freefall and static line. Ref: Jakey’s SL set up. I have tied my break cord between bridle and canopy and like the set up. The rubber bands I feel are a little overkill with modern curved pins set with zero tension. I see where you are coming from with no hang-up potential built feel the chances of this are small enough not for me to worry about (most of the time) Questions: Has one ever had / seen / heard of a hung-up SL in BASE? What went wrong? Could we use closing loops made of break cord? Anyone know the braking strain of spectra (Cyprus loop) They must make the same material in thinner cord? Greeny

PC off Static Line Jumps Maybe this thread was started because I have talked to Hydoguy recently about removing my PC for curtain jumps and have all SL’ed so jumped recently without one. Firstly let me start by saying my PC (usually my 48zp) goes on about 90% of my SL jumps. It goes on every jump unless I believe it will cause me more problems then it will solves. I fully understand all the arguments for leaving a PC on and trashing PC’s (I also have an old, repaired 48 kept for SL only) is acceptable to me if it is not going to course me an additional problem. I have had an Electrical Tape SL break early. I got a 3sec canopy ride from 240ft. I had a 46ZP PC on and was very thankful for it. I changed to break cord after that jump. I have also very recently had an unexplained low opening on a 173ft E SL. I again had a large PC (48zp) on. The friend at the top said it looked from the top like it went right, but to me it felt like I freefell it and I only got a 4sec canopy ride (less than when I freefall). Again maybe my PC saved my life. I was using 2 pieces of break cord. I do not do many none PC SL’s but the jumps where I have removed my PC are where the need for forward speed / flight performance / glide ratio of my canopy out ways the risk of jumping with no PC. You all know from skydiving the difference a collapsible PC makes to your glide. I am working on that for BASE but do not have a reliable system I like yet. Examples of PC off SL jumps: 150ft B, a construction site with nasty stuff under the exit point and a spiky fence that NEEDS it be cleared. I didn’t believe I could clear the fence with a large PC on and not clearing it was unacceptable. I jumped it with no PC, I flared and lifted my feet to clear the fence. Fun Jump! Small E, with a long rocky hillside to out fly. I didn’t believe I would clear the whole talus with a PC on. I have now out flown it with no PC, so next time I will SL it with my 36 f111 and if that works I will jump it with my next size up and so on. I would like my PC on but not out flying it would put you into big rocks and power wires. I am paranoid when I jump SL with no PC, but in certain circumstances it makes a jump do-able where refusing to jump without a PC would mean not jumping. The good thing about BASE is it is a free sport and we all jump as we wish, to the level we wish. You might not all like it and I RECOMMEND IT TO NO-ONE but these jumps were very worth it to me. My SL set up with and with out my PC is the same and more than likely the same as most of the rest of you. I use the break cord APEX BASE sells (80lbs). I’m sure you can get it from other places but it is real convenient for me to get it from them. I always tie in with 2 loops. If I have the option I tie in tight to 2 separate loops on my bridle (see APEX SUPERBOWL set up) If not I tie in one tight and one loose. I adjust my bridle length depending on my jump. I use ‘carry with you SL’s on illegal jumps, unless I feel it would snag I tie in as short as possible to lower the snatch forces on my break cord I undo my pin and riser covers I prime my pins again to lower the snatch forces (I want my container to open and my pack job to lift with minimum force possible, thereby giving the break cord the best chance to stay intact) On legal jumps or places I will be returning to the exit point I set up a stay behind anchor and retrieve it later. I am paranoid about mine and my buddies bridle routing. (Arms, feet, snag points catching your bridle or PC are all bad) (sometimes the best way is to get the last jumper to lightly hold the bridles / PCs, of the other jumpers clear, extra safety is never a bad thing) I push off just enough to clear the object to minimise the pendulum effect A light push off here is better than dropping straight down as a canopy always drives forward a little. Adjust this to the jump, under hung / large ledges might mean a running exit is needed (scary on a SL jump be very very paranoid about bridle routing) You are static lining so chances are you are lower than normal, when you release your brakes let them up slowly to minimise the canopy dive. If you practice this you will see you will fly further from the object on all jumps if you let them up slow. If it is low 130f and below consider a shallow break setting and not releasing the brakes. Land on rear risers. If it is real low 100ft or below adopt the PLF position (you did learn how? Right) as you step off the exit and leave the brakes and risers alone. At this height nothing you do will help just let the canopy do its thing. Lowest by me so far: 90ft (SL attachment point height) onto concrete. A Fox 243, ZP, V-Tec, Multi It landed hard! I have also jumped 98ft onto grass on my MOJO (I don’t know if this was a lucky jump or repeatable, I was still using electrical tape and thought it was higher) 120ft onto concrete was done by 3 of use a few weeks back 2 vented canopies and on not, all were acceptable rear riser landings but the vented canopies defiantly had better pressurisation on landing. Greeny