daveb

Both ways work well enough to win gold on the international level or get world records for the most formations turned in time. I use letters-n-numbers, but I've found that I've already started the move before I mentally 'state' it; it's more like a confirmation than a directive. I've asked certain notables about this, and at least a couple have mentioned they don't really use either during the skydive -- it is muscle memory, grip sequences, visual references in the air, and names on the ground during prep. Once you throw in slot-switching, mirrors and non-standard builds, neither letters nor names are sufficient. Mostly, it is up to the individual to do whatever they need to remember the dive sequence at whatever speed and whatever funk happens during the jump. I have brainlocked using names, letters and muscle-memory, and my notes about why I brainlocked have nothing to do with forgetting the sequence or getting tongue-tied. A successful jump starts and ends in the ground prep. Do that well and the jump is just checking off points turned.

Isn't that essentially what Juggernaut did in 2002 Int 4 way? No. How many national medals of any kind did any of their team members earn prior to 2002? I dunno -- did they have to? Their reasons for choosing open are theirs, and I can fathom any number of reasons why they did, potentially all of them errant. -- Dave

It's hard to diagnose the problem without video, but from your description, I'll offer a few notes that should help. First, be smooth and consistent on your count. It doesn't matter what type of count you do, as long as it communicates to the others exactly when you are planning to go. This is easiest if you provide a steady cadence to your count, everybody can see or feel this cadence, and knows that on beat X we all leave. Get eye contact from each slot before starting the count, always in the same order (e.g. point, outside, tail), so everyone knows to expect the count, be it shake-down-go, ready-set-go, forward-back-exit. Since you are giving the count, it is difficult to be late. One possibility is you are communicating 'go', but not moving out until after the go is given. Remember that 'go' means leave NOW for everyone, including yourself; it is an action word, start your exit while you are giving the 'go'. A very good drill to get the timing down is to use the mockup and attempt to get everyone's feet on the ground at the same moment. You want to hear a single, combined footfall, not a pitter-patter of footsteps. Practice the count and exit until your team can consistently get feet on the ground simultaneously. You can also practice this by doing 'hops': no mockup, everyone takes exit grips, you give the count, and on 'go' everyone hops up and lands simultaneously. Again, you want a single sound. You may also be allowing yourself to be pulled off the aircraft. This is most common when the IC leads with upper body only, leaving feet on the floor. A good tip here is to exit the aircraft by leading with your hips, and collapsing through the floor. You need to get your center point moving on exit, and your body into the wind as quickly as possible; leading with your hips is an easy method to achieve this. Hope this helps you out.

Yes, she is jumping. Check out dallasthunder.com/team.php. I have no personal contact info, though.

I've got maybe 150 pack jobs in more than 1900 skydives; before Thailand, I hadn't packed in over two years. I got a quickie refresher course from a buddy while in Thailand, which paid off well, as I landed way off often and field packed myself before bumming a ride back. I haven't packed since, and don't miss it. I can pack if I have to, but I don't often have to.

Matt Melencon. He started me down the RW path immediately after AFF, teaching me the raw non-AFF basics that others have built upon. I feel a great deal of gratitude towards Matt. I haven't seen him in years, but I'd like to thank him for taking an interest.

What's 'home'? Where I started? Where I train? Where most of my jumping friends are? My favorite DZ? My favorite DZ within a certain radius? Where I voluntarily go when I have an idle weekend? Where I have the most jumps? FWIW, I still call Skydive San Marcos 'home', although I only jump there maybe half a dozen times a year. It's only 50 miles away, but I travel 250 miles to train in Dallas. I have more jumping buddies in Dallas and Spaceland than San Marcos, but that's mostly because there are so many more jumpers at the larger DZs. I'm sponsored by Skydive Dallas, so of course it's my favorite (this year ;-). If I'm not training, and there isn't an event elsewhere, I'll split my time between several Texas DZs (Spaceland, Dallas, Waller and San Marcos). Perhaps I don't really have a home DZ. I'm not plugged into all the As The Prop Turns daily drama at any DZ (and isn't that a blessing!), and I get email from three different DZs for current events. I know: I'm homeless. I'd jump for food, but I haven't found any takers....

I have not felt the dropping/falling sensation during any skydive: side, tailgate, or helicopter. The only time I have felt it was during a bungee jump - not the first fall towards earth, but at the apex of the first recoil. That was when my stomach tried to exit through my mouth and I was grabbing at everything (not that there was much within reach). The feeling I have exiting an aircraft when my air is blocked is quite different from that visceral memory of the bungee recoil.

Watching my 12 year old son fly with control and purpose in the tunnel, and his smile and obvious enjoyment during and afterward. -- Dave

Yeahbut... at any level other than open, you are only playing for the joy of competition, and if cheating floats your boat, you don't get caught, and you can live with it.... I don't have a problem with the USPA rule as is. I think Ron's harping on having open silver medalists playing in the minors is a red herring. The only real issue is PCs, who may or may not have medaled in open, but do have one consistent theme: they are paid to play. I seriously doubt anyone is going to come up with a bulletproof rule that is agreeable to all. Perhaps Quade's golden ratio rule is the best compromise from the standpoint of competition. And somewhere in here is supposed to be the concept of sportsmanship, which is pretty hard to legislate or enforce. -- Dave

So you're not a pro unless you place in open? This might surprise a few former pros. It seems a better distinction to call out paid players; if a team member (other than the video flyer) is paid to jump with the team, said team may only compete for official placement in open, otherwise it is a guest team, and thus ineligible for a medal in all other classes. -- Dave

I already have them. Well, I don't have the Knights' video yet, but I've been studying Airspeed and Majik video for some time. I also watch video of myself, and those from past Nationals. The GK performance in round 5 of 2002 was a thing of beauty; it demonstrates quite clearly what my coaches have told me repeatedly: do less. I find such performances to be inspiring and instructive. I hope to find similar beauty in the 2003 footage. There are a host of other reasons why head-to-head competition footage is a good training tool and quite different from the disks and tapes. Best is to use a variety of resources, and keep an open mind about how to do a block, engineer a dive, launch a point, etc. This is substantially aided with the footage I desire.

I guess I disagree with being able to jump as a requirement to train or make effective use of video. Visualization is such a huge part of the sport, that video review of yourself and others - especially the open class teams - is vital. Also, so there is no confusion, I would like both disks, raw and fully produced. It would be a disservice to the community not to produce a good movie about the event we collectively spent more than a million dollars to train for. But what makes a good movie does not make the optimal training tool, and I believe there is room for both.

Ron, you are spot on. Someone should hire 3 open class silver medalists and compete in advanced class in 2004. I'm sure it would be rewarding for all involved, and it might just open the USPA's eyes to their egregious error.

All belly RW stuff: 4000 - the skydive is over (finish the point!) and leave 2800 - time to deploy 1700 - pull NOW / fix what's broke NOW I have the second and last set a bit higher than my actual hard deck to allow for reaction time between the tone and my doing something about it. I use these same settings in big ways, even if the break off altitude is higher. For instance, in a recent big way, my breakoff altitude was 7500', and pull altitude at 2500'; the 4000' first warning occurred during my extended track, telling me to make any final course corrections now, and the final two remaining as before. I rarely change the first warning altitude, and never the second or third. I wear a wrist-mount visual for out-of-profile skydives, because my internal clock is not set properly. And all this is a backup for my vision and common sense (gee, the horizon is getting high....)

A professional quality, fully produced movie is a mammoth task, especially when the best possible result is sought. This is as it should be, and I hope the Nationals movie is every bit as first-rate as the production time indicates. However, there are more than a few teams that use the footage of the winning teams to learn and prepare for the next year. This preparation begins either at or shortly after Nationals concludes; the middle of March is well into the training year for the coming year's Nationals event. A fully produced movie with a significant production time is not as helpful as it could be. I think it would be profitable - both financially and for training purposes - to release a quick compilation DVD of just the raw footage of the top three (or so) teams in each division and event. Such a disk needs no serious artistic preparation beyond the basics of DVD nagivation, no music tracks, no compilation of 'moments' from the entire event. It is a training tool, and will be muted, paused, slowed, reversed, and replayed ad infinitum (ad nauseum?). Such a disk could be created very quickly, even within a couple of weeks of the event, if the formal DVD production channels are bypassed -- e.g. the disk is a DVD-R created as a one-off, on-demand affair. Given the time and space requirements of the raw footage, the DVD could come in multiple versions, one for each discipline (RW, Freefly, CRW, Artistic, etc), with demand driving the 'production'. Perhaps I am missing some practical logistic problem with this proposal. If so, I am certain to be educated promptly and tactfully ;-). Comments?

Love to, but we are training that weekend in Dallas. We also trained a few days in Eloy just after Christmas, but I didn't hang around for New Year's, what with a long trip looming in Jan/Feb. I'd jump with you again in a heartbeat, given the chance. I'll bet the 8-10 ways rocked! The Eloy boogie is on my perpetual calendar; lotsa fun! -- Dave

Small world! I had to pull my copy of that McGowen photo off the wall to compare! On closer inspection, your jpeg is the next dive after my photo; I recall the outfacing guy at 2-o'clock being replaced by the guy in your photo. (I'm the one in black towards the bottom right of the image, say 5-o'clock.) Those were some really fun skydives! I just pulled out my logbook to check; 12-30-2001, jump ~615-ish. My only note: "16-way w/ Craig Girard". Sigh: I remember the formation, but not much about the actual jump; I really need to keep better notes in my logbook. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.... -- Dave

I was in the whiner's corner in otter I (slot I-3b) third from lead, right side) in Eloy, middle of the first wacker in sector 4, and in the last row of divers from the lead Herc in Thailand, next to outside of wacker 4 in sector 10. Obviously, the dive was far steeper from the Hercs, and was much flatter from the Otters. The Hercs exited 4 abreast, 20-25 lines deep, with a faster airspeed and a tailgate vs the slower Otter, single file diving from the side door maybe 10 people deep (at the end). I thought the exit from the Herc was *much* easier - and certainly more fun - than the Otter, especially from the whiner's corner. The aircraft formation for both events spread out to give people the straightest shot to the skydiving formation. Both dives were well planned, and neither had lingering traffic problems, once everybody understood their job and flew it. The ride to altitude was much more comfortable in the Herc, both because it was warmer (did I mention I was in the whiner's corner in the Otter?) and it was a bit less cramped in the Herc. It was more difficult identifying your own O2 hose in the Herc, but the hoses were less of an issue during exit. We exited higher in Thailand (23,500') than in Eloy (21,000'), and a couple of times it felt like we were at altitude a long time in Thailand. I suspect the Eloy lineup will not scale appreciably further than the 14 aircraft used. I'd have to imagine than aircraft logistics would become a significant factor with 20 or more aircraft in formation (mechanical problems, coordination, safety) than with 5 C-130s. Both events had aircraft mechanical problems, and both were overcome. Is this about what you wanted to know? I'd do either event again, but my preference is for the C-130s, and I believe they, or something similar, will be required for 400+ way formations. -- Dave

Hiro is an amazing jumper. I did an Airspeed camp with him in Nov 2002, and have bumped into him several times since, including the 357 way. I have not met many people who try harder or have a more pleasant personality. You're indeed fortunate to count him as a friend. -- Dave

See http://www.theworldteam.com/Mhistory.htm for a timeline. I, too, thought at the time it might last a while, but within just a few days of the 300-way, I heard about the plans for the larger way, and I'm not even in the loop! I do not have the numbers, but both rosters are available online (hmm -- the 300-way.com site is gone, but google still has the cached pages) and an enterprising person could match 'em up. I'd take a swag at 50% overlap, extrapolated from who I saw at Eloy but not in Thailand, and vice-versa. There were reportedly ~70% veterans from WT99. I've no doubt that 400 way is close at hand. The biggest problems going bigger seem to be finding qualified people who will try, can spend the significant time and money required, and obtaining a reliable source of aircraft and dz operations. The Royal Thai Air Force was absolutely superb in this regard. Is 500 doable? Yes, but. I think the organizational logistics would be the problem, not the formation: find em, transport em, house em, feed em, herd em, communicate with em; and that's just the surface view of the problems. As I complimented the RTAF, I extend the same courtesy to the WT04 organizers and support staff: a first-rate job guys and gals! -- Dave

What he said... I highly recommend the camps, having done a few of them myself. It's alot of money, but the value is unbeatable.

Started at 38, now 42, have about 1800 jumps, about half in team training. A light weekend of fun jumping is 6 jumps a day, and I'm a bit disappointed if I'm on the ground that long. ;-) I love team training and the discipline that goes along with it, plus the friends I've made along the way, both in and out of teams. Had I known what I was missing, I'd have started long before I did.

I've not (yet) seen the GK video. The Majik DVD is a 'movie', whereas the Airspeed Mind Maps CD is a computer program done as a website. I can play with both on my computer, but only the Majik on my home theater system (haven't done the HTPC thing yet). Yes, it is entertaining. Yes, it is informative. It has a fair amount of content, including some talking-head interviews with the team, their Nats performance and the Malevsky Cup. I like the Majik DVD. I'm glad I bought it. I cannot answer the 'worth it' question, because that's up to each. But I will say the more hard-core 4way you are, the better the value. Unless you've already turned a 23.1 in competition, that is. ;-) -- Dave

I don't dispute the infeasibility of tracking in one of the current wind tunnels. And I'm not about to argue physics with a prof. I would appreciate an answer in layman's terms to my query earlier about fall rate vs lift, because that formula doesn't really 'splain it to me. I'm even more confused by the claim: lift is required to turn points?