daveb

Almost 2600 jumps with nothing more than a black eye from 4way and a 3-month sore (but not debilitating) back from insta-canopy. The sport is as safe as you make it. Do stupid stuff, expect to be rewarded in kind. But even the best and safest make mistakes, and this sport is unforgiving of mistakes.

How would ya know you're not sliding all over the sky when you're solo? That's not the point -- use the solo jumps to practice radical edge of control motions, just to get the feel of them, and what is too much. Use relative jumpers to determine slidage. Solo jumps are a great way to practice things like body awareness or isolation drills, but you would not want to practice solo turns with the idea of staying in the same column of air.

Are you kidding? My team still does stop drills because we cannot seem to do 1-2-3. Pick up the pace and the discipline falls off. I know that Airspeed will devote days to stop drills. Probably the most difficult thing in RW is remembering the basic discipline in the face of all the other junk that happens while trying to score more points or build a bigger formation. Don't knock yourself even a little bit; every single skydiver has this problem to some degree. Every one.

Isn't that something? I'm looking across at a multiple time World Champion doing some radical leg motions, boring a hole through my soul with his gaze, wondering what I'm screwing up now and what is he trying to tell me? ;-) We are certainly making him work for his money!

Ron's reply is very good. But allow me to elaborate. ;-) Most meekers spin because they just fall out of the airplane. If you look at it, this will impart a 'natural' spin to the exit: the OC steps off the plane and falls down, with the leg point is holding onto pulling the point out of the plane, which then pulls the inside center around that corner with the leg grip. Within this description is the method to stop the rotation. I put more responsibility on the outside center than point. OC must get hips up and legs away from the plane. This is all about presentation early -- OC must get the left leg way up high and present the lower body to the wind, and attempt to fly the legs uphill, while putting a small amount of force up and away from the door. OC must also remember that point is attached to this leg, and the further it travels from the door, the further point must travel. Recognizing this, point should take a high grip on OC -- this means less distance to travel for the grip, and also allows point to be more upright in the door. Point should extend up, and help OC by pulling on the leg. Point's head should be above his legs, and of course, present. Inside center: lead with your hips out the doorway. Everyone else: be somewhat forward in the door, and realize that IC really wants to exit without hitting the back of the plane or the floor. Inside: don't be a victim. Tail should attempt to put his head where his feet were. Assuming everyone else is doing their job correctly, tail will not be able to do this -- which is a good thing. ;-) Tail also wants an aggressive down; this implies no upward movement at all. Try to get right shoulder low with good presentation, which will help out any less than stellar presentation at point or OC. If it should spin, everyone needs to work together to counter it. However, the best defense is a good exit to avoid the unnecessary spin in the first place. [edited for typo]

Well, this IS dropzone.com.... Ed, nicely written and accurate. There is a dearth of technical material on flying relative, and your posts and articles go a long way to fill the empty space. However, there is only so much that can be learned about flying your body without actually flying your body. Most people, myself included, have a poor understanding of how much input they are giving/lacking in the air, especially when the air time is low. Partly, it's a matter of communication - as a writer like yourself is intimately aware - but also a personal integration of that information with body motion when the movement is novel or unpracticed. In this regard, there is no substitute for hands-on coaching and training. And there is no better crucible than a wind tunnel with video and a coach to learn the Oh, so that's how it feels proper inputs. Steve, very perceptive and accurate that you need to use your legs more. But equally important to your body flight technique is your RW technique. Specifically: Rule #1: do not pick up grips until you are in position. Rule #2: pick up grips simultaneously. Rule #3: do not move while on grips. Okay, I made up these rules on the spot, but they are good rules for relative flying, and are the basis of moving faster. As you experienced, it was difficult to fly your body around to get the other grip. It is much easier to fly to a position and pick up grips than to connect yourself to someone else trying to make a different move while trying to finish yours; plus, it makes your partner's job more difficult if you have one grip but are moving yourself to gain the other. I recommend you try Ed's drills first in isolation - even solo - concentrating on using your legs only to turn. The goal is to learn leg inputs, not learn turn technique, so go big and find that point of instability: what works better, worse, does nothing. Put a couple of jumps towards this before you try to integrate it with your upper body for a 'proper' turn. Then add another jumper and try Ed's suggestions, but remembering what you felt on your previous solo jumps. When it comes time to add grips to the mix, remember the three 'rules' above, which translate to the mantra: "Move-stop-grips".

Hahahahaha-- clunk! (Laughing my head off). I've received some pressure, but I'm hanging on to what I have while I still have it. Now, my Dad, Mom, Grandmother, relatives, friends, acquaintences, fashion magazines all think I should get shorn. Perhaps someday I'll get some fashion sense, but hopefully not too soon. The team is doing pretty well. I don't know what they're showing that looks so good, but Samer is still potato chipping, Chris is not aggressive enough, I'm a floaty b*tch, Mark doesn't want to hire a coach -- you know, standard team issues. ;-) Actually, to bring this back on topic, on at least one dive this year, each of us has done exactly as stated (except I don't think Mark needs to change ;-). The trick, as mentioned by several others, is to be cool with it, get the coaching, get the independant video, all commit to a common goal, spend lots of money, and enjoy 4way for what it is!

I'll see if Scott will put it on skydivingmovies.com. It's a short clip, but still nothing short of amazing that during deployment he catches it with his knees.

Scott Sanders caught his video helmet during deployment with his knees! Very cool video, and amazing reaction time.

It is much better to assign positions by skill. The center is the most important, and should have the most experienced people there. It is important because the centers set the angles and invite the flakers to dock. If the centers are moving or set poor angles, the flakers are all over just trying to find grips, and that is not good 4way. I'd put your most experienced at outside, then inside, then point, then tail. Between point and tail, have the one with the most outfacing experience and ability do point. This could even work with the personalities: point is good for the non-aggressive one, since point is usually being gripped instead of the other way around. Tail can use the heavier and faster faller right out the door to anchor the formation, and since tail is mostly infacing, fall rate control is easier. If he is still potato chipping, he is not ready for RW. Sorry, there are a very few basics you must have first. Sounds like he needs some solid 2ways -- perhaps with yourself or whoever is most experienced. Have him match a variety of fall rates, but with small changes, not 15 feet, but a foot up or down. Repeat with light turns: 90 L and R. Etc. If he is incapable of doing this as a 2way with a stable and controlled reference, he is incapable of 4way. A good coach can help greatly here, but if he won't pony up for that, well.... You know what, you've got something there. On video, he never looks directly at me or other divers from what I have noticed. Do you mean eye contact as in eye to eye? I think that's what his problem is if that's the case. Eye contact is crucial. But at the very minimum, everyone needs to be looking across the formation at their cross-partner, and be at least tangentally aware of their piece-partners. If he is not looking there, where IS he looking? I've seen a lot of RW teams practice this by getting out at 4,500feet. I never really understood why. Now I do. Thanks for that tip. Exit camps are great for working out kinks. However, they're not for every team. If you have less than 100 jumps planned as a team, I think you should skips exit camps and go for freefall time. As for exits, nail one exit solid, then transition. Sidebodies (P) is a good general-purpose and easier exit. Stairstep (B) is next, but a bit more difficult. Get consistant with these two before moving to anything else. And do them from altitude. I doubt low timers really know a proper arch (I should talk, Mark Kirkby is all over my poor body position) to practice muscle memory. Instead of at home, have them practice it at the DZ in front of an instructor before starting the day of jumping. This close to jump time, and with proper input and feedback from a pro, will help build in muscle memory faster than not doing it at home (do you really think they're doing this at home?). That said, alot of poor body position (BP) comes from fall rate. If the person cannot fall fast enough, they'll compromise BP by pulling their arms in, feet on butt, elbows vertical and other contortions, plus not being comfortable or able to dock. Weight up. If the person falls too fast, they have to compensate with arms all out, legs out, tracking about the sky. Get a looser suit, have teammates weight up, learn to fall relative. But best is coaching. I understand the limited funds aspect, but I promise the jumps will go much better and everyone will have more fun with a modicum of good coaching. You don't have to go silly with it, but even one day of coaching split four ways is worth the price of a jump or two. If they're unwilling to pay even this little, hopefully you can find a more experienced RW type to help out with video (not pov, but dedicated camera) review. Good luck with it! Be sure to give your teammates room to breathe; 4way is difficult and demanding enough without someone pointing fingers or giving feedback on every little thing. Be sure to get video that is not point-of-view. While cool to look at, it's not helpful in getting the big picture needed to properly debrief and learn. -- Dave

You realize this is exactly the same 'logic' used by the 400 jump wonders wanting to load their canopy at 3:1? While you are certainly aware of your own feelings of comfort in various situations, when your friends and advisors are telling you 'no', there is likely good reason. We all have a bit of a rebellious streak in us, and it probably serves most of us well most of the time, but there ARE times when it is wiser to listen to and heed advise we don't like. -- Dave

Your mind is not cleared -- it's overloaded; most people's are. AFF jumpmasters might be friends, but at 3 jumps, they're not docking, they're holding you stable. Hi, my name is Dave, and I have a problem. I like turning points and doing big ways. You do too? Let's go jump! It's all a learning experience. Five years ago I had no idea I'd be doing what I am today, and I've only the most vague of notions about what the next five will bring my way. I do know that I'll think differently about the sport in five years' time, in the same manner that I jump for different reasons today than what brought me to my first jumps. So, in response to your statement, yes, I am far more concentrated on turning point and making world records than when I started, though not in exclusion to sharing what other more experienced jumpers have shared with me, and not without still feeling the sheer joy of freefall. That's not a bad thing. If you ever see me acting like a skygod or snotting on the newbies, I deserve your disrespect and need a good bitch-slap. That's not who am I or who I want to become; the world has enough of those already.

Wow, now I'm disappointed. I have absolutely zero desire to pack, live in a tent, or put holes into any sensitive body parts. I did try to cutaway my old wife -- life, life -- I said life, honey! -- but that didn't go over very well. Obviously, I'm missing out on a big part of the experience.... -- Dave

I'll pass that info along. He's "in town" for a couple of months, but I'll encourage him to do SkyFest if he's still in the area (or even if he's not!). That would be the best place for a Royal SCR pouring, and if the King should attend .... have I told you how bummed I am to have to miss this year? The sacrifices of team training are sometimes heavy indeed! Yep, got a shirt - thank you very much!

I did a bit of impromptu load organizing this weekend, some eight - twelve ways, at Skydive San Marcos. A newbie jumper named Rick, visiting from Carolina Sky Sports was there with his all of 52 jumps. Had he not told me his jump numbers, I'd never have guessed -- he was flying so well and with such good body position and general awareness it was simply amazing. He told me he'd done two of the Airspeed camps, and wow, I can tell you they work! We made four jumps on Saturday, including a combo SCR and SCS jump: SCR for Rick, plus an SCS for another newbie wonder, Brad, who completed his 100th jump just the weekend prior. I had the luxury of six other experienced jumpers who wanted to help these guys out, and a video guy that could come down and fly a slot to save the SCR if needed. We set the priority of the jump as 1) Rick's SCR, 2) Brad's SCS, 3) Sequential. Rick was flying so well, we had him lurk his slot with no grips, hoping that maybe we could also get his SCS at the same time. Well, the newbies were there, but an experienced jumper went low, so Rick "only" got his SCR, and the group achieved all three goals, as we scored a 3 point 8way (with plenty of altitude left to enjoy each other's company before breakoff at 5k). BTW, no beer has been poured -- CSS folks, be sure Rick doesn't miss out on his dues! But newbie isn't just in jump numbers. I'm still learning to put together larger formations, and my friend and mentor Harry Hopkins was there, selflessly taking a passive role and allowing me to practice the intricacies of herding cats - er, non-team RW types. He was always available if I needed to ask his opinion, or bring up a point I neglected in our dirt dives, but never tried to assert his greater experience. Lesson to self: be like Harry, and allow others the opportunity to grow.

No contact drills are an approximation for stop drills, and are commonly used to break a team of "gripitis", and force them focus on falling relative to one another. I prefer stop drills to no-contact drills simply because gripping is a (the?) central theme of RW -- formations are exclusively identified by the grips -- and stop drills fully incorporate no-contact flying while still allowing for the defining grips, as well as the communication inherent to grips on/grips off. The key to speed in RW is getting everyone motionless -- stopped. From that stopped position, you can easily pick up grips because neither you nor the grip is moving. It is also much easier to initiate a move when stopped, than countering your current momentum with additional input. The stop drill simply teaches (or reinforces) this fundamental skill. The RW mantra is "move-stop-grips". This is commonly blurred into a single "get grips as soon as possible", leading to alot of funk in the skydive. Ironically, by emphasing the stop portion, focus is placed on the move and grips parts, because they are now separate, distinct, and easy to identify and diagnose in video review. So, how to do a stop drill? Simply take any skydive, and enforce the rule that you cannot pick up a grip until you and the grip are completely static and on the same level. Even better is to broaden the rule so that the entire team is static and level -- this will help to build synchronous grips, everybody on and off at the same moment. Take as much time as necessary to wait for movement to stop. Then everyone on grips, everyone off grips, move to the next formation, stop, repeat until breakoff. Your first few attempts will likely feel glacial, and you'll feel a need to get the grip and move on. Your score for that dive will go down, and you'll come face-to-face with the thought "I'm a better skydiver than that! I can do many more points, just watch me!" Resist that strong temptation! I cannot emphasize how important this overlooked skill and drill are. Speed flows from this basic concept. When your skydives start to feel junky and grippy, stop drills are the cure. The top teams in the world will, every so often, dedicate entire days to stop drills. Note in particular that the pauses before everyone picks up grips can be vanishingly short - assuming everyone is static - and that you can actually score more points during a stop drill than a grippy, junky skydive! If your team can discipline itself to respect move-stop-grips, you will increase your scores. Moreover, your skydives will feel better and have a better flow to them as you train the discipline and it becomes ingrained.

Interesting story here. I still own my first rig, a Xerox container with a Griffon 190 main and Swift 210 reserve. I cannot sell it (easily), because it is not TSO'd in the US. I bought it from the DZO's brother who was the DZM at the time. I never felt it was dangerous equipment, but I bought it when I had 20 jumps and knew nothing about the sport, and nobody ever warned me I might have trouble selling later on. My point? The inexperienced have a really tough time knowing what choose. I'd run it by more than one person, even if you trust them. Opinions from a variety of experienced jumpers -- with no vested interest in selling the gear -- will help you keep in the clear. Sure, talk to your instructors, riggers and DZO, but also talk to your friends and up-jumpers.

Over 500 in 98. Over 700 in 2002. It was a very good year.

You know what would be cool? If someone could translate that into lay terms: I don't know if I'm offended, indifferent, honored, in the normal distribution or outside it. But I suppose being like everyone else, seeking a state of arousal would be okay. ;-) Seriously: is the entire article available (all I can get is the abstract)?

If you *hire* the coach, you should pay. If the coach just wants to jump with someone, even a newbie, the coach should pay. Figure it like this: if the focus of the skydive is you, you should be paying the other's slot(s). If the focus is on jumping with others, each foots their own bill. How much to pay is determined by value to you, and agreed upon by the coach.

I know what you meant by "non-instructional", but I do want to emphasize that the coaching provided by the Airspeed crew (in particular) is highly instructional, and worth the cost of admission. Value, as in all things, depends on what you seek.

I pay several hundred dollars a day for coached jumps, and I'm pretty sure my coach is not USPA certified. ;-) The USPA coaches I know of generally get slot+5. Even before the USPA coach program, I'd pay at least his slot, and almost always an additional $5. It made his jump a freebie, but since he was focused on my needs, that seems entirely reasonable. I don't put alot of stock into the USPA coach rating.... the requirements are not all that impressive. I took the course a few years ago, but never made the eval jumps; the paper trail is now moldy, so I'd have to repeat it, and I don't find the hassle worth it. That's not where my heart is anyway -- I'd much rather teach good RW skills to (licensed) jumpers of all levels. I think I want to be like Ed....

Yep. Third time for me. I enjoy the event immensely.

Just standing up to be counted. A day of rest does not mean cessation from activity. And church is where you make it, not in a special building at a special time. So it's only constrained from a religious point of view, not by faith. And far from being somehow divisive, it's open and available to everyone: all you have to do is accept. -- Dave

Robin, flip1.jpg is begging for explanation! A satellite, on the flat, how did the jumper get in this position?!? I laugh at it only because I've so many, um, less-than-pristine moments of my own.