Legstraps

[gzimmermann 0]

I just found this:
http://www.wingsuitnews.com/2011/04/safety-warning.html

Let us wingsuiters make it a habit to do the "shrugging shoulder" check among friends just like we do pin checks before boarding the plane. I learnt this in my PF first flight course from DSE and made it a habit since then for me.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I just found this:
http://www.wingsuitnews.com/2011/04/safety-warning.html

Let us wingsuiters make it a habit to do the "shrugging shoulder" check among friends just like we do pin checks before boarding the plane. I learnt this in my PF first flight course from DSE and made it a habit since then for me.

Your suit is not an armor, you should able to touch your leg strap hardware on the usual place.

[mccordia 73]

Gabor, people have been caught without legstraps with the rig hardware pressed tight onto the hips by the suit. Shrugging and putting tension on the legstrap, and visually checking (and never closing zips unless straps are done) are all good habits to use and spread!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[phoenixlpr 0]

Agree, it should be tight to feel tension and hardware in place.

Well, I tighten my leg straps before zipping up and boarding the plane.

[DSE 3]

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I just found this:
http://www.wingsuitnews.com/2011/04/safety-warning.html

Let us wingsuiters make it a habit to do the "shrugging shoulder" check among friends just like we do pin checks before boarding the plane. I learnt this in my PF first flight course from DSE and made it a habit since then for me.

Your suit is not an armor, you should able to touch your leg strap hardware on the usual place.

I asked a well-known AFFI/E to inspect a "student" at PIA 2 years ago. he was unable to detect that the "student" wasn't wearing legstraps from outside the suit.
The person in question here was on his third jump of the day, first two in an FYB suit, first jump on the Sbird for him. He has around 170ish WS jumps.
I was not on the load nor in the area at gear check, but one of our students was.
FWIW, gear checks are mandatory, we have a buddy system that Gerhardt sort of mentioned. Students here are taught to not zip anything unless their legstraps are tight and chest strap is at least routed. This rule seems to work well with our regulars. It's been great to see Murf and the other Brits adopt the same practices while they're here. Perhaps they'll take it back home with them.

In short, we ask that someone place their hand under the wingsuiter's yoke and the wingsuiter "shrugs." The shrug will demonstrate a tight or loose (or missing) legstrap pretty easily.

The incident with our Swiss visitor could haveturned tragic and I'm personally grateful to the person who discovered the problem during a 10K check.
We're glad it turned out well.

[johnmatrix 21]

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In short, we ask that someone place their hand under the wingsuiter's yoke and the wingsuiter "shrugs." The shrug will demonstrate a tight or loose (or missing) legstrap pretty easily.

So basically if the legstraps are undone then the yoke lifts up, is that right?

[Skwrl 56]

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In short, we ask that someone place their hand under the wingsuiter's yoke and the wingsuiter "shrugs." The shrug will demonstrate a tight or loose (or missing) legstrap pretty easily.

So basically if the legstraps are undone then the yoke lifts up, is that right?

The quick answer is "yes". The more correct answer is "it depends". It depends on if you're sitting, who is pushing up against you on the plane, etc. You need to make sure you stand up and aren't leaning on anything or touching anyone before you shrug (if there's something pulling on your rig, you might not notice). Best practice in my opinion would be to check on the ground after zipping up to feel the buckles through the fabric, and then doing a shrug in the plane to make sure you weren't having an Alzheimer's moment on the ground. But in my opinion, that's not enough. Feel the buckle again...

Check shit three times. Seriously. If that's the one piece of advice I can give (and I ain't got much), listen to that one. Humans are predictably retarded. We get distracted, we lose focus. Checking stuff at least three times significantly reduces your chances of not noticing something important.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[normiss 622]

"Check shit three times"

This rule starts at coach rating. ANY and EVERY person considered or rated as a coach or higher should be expected to take on this life dependent responsibility. Every time.

As wingsuiters, it has unfortunately become an off color question in the boarding area as well. "Legstraps?" is regularly heard prior to boarding.

[DSE 3]

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So basically if the legstraps are undone then the yoke lifts up, is that right?

At an Otter DZ, this works great. At a Cessna DZ...not so well because the wingsuiter may be sitting on his legstraps. IMO, feeling the buckle doesn't accomplish anything outside of knowing there is a buckle there. A personal shrug works in most every instance I've been in.
If you're a coach, you know we check gear when it's put on, before getting on the plane, and before exit. That's how it is SUPPOSED to happen. At Elsinore, we've recently added a layer of the buddy system. In this case, it provided the desired outcome.
I kinda think the wingsuiter knew about it before it was discovered, based on other conversations today.
One other thing I'd mention...in-aircraft rigging is simply stupid. In this case, the wingsuiter pulled off his legs, put the legstraps on, and then put his wingsuit legs back on. He was instructed by an I/E and a TI to go back down with the plane but he disobeyed.
Bad juju.

[Electronaut 0]

I know a camera flier at a major DZ in state that climbed out with his leg straps on but at full extension. Tightened them up on the camera step.

[johnmatrix 21]

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In this case, the wingsuiter pulled off his legs, put the legstraps on, and then put his wingsuit legs back on.

So his legstraps were well and truly off, not just on and loosened all the way out?
Forgetting simple things like this is my ultimate skydiving nightmare. It gives me the creeps just thinking about it.

[normiss 622]

Growing up riding motorcycles with my dad, he would regularly remind me that "some people shouldn't ride motorcycles".
Sadly, I think the same of skydiving.

[DSE 3]

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So his legstraps were well and truly off, not just on and loosened all the way out?
Forgetting simple things like this is my ultimate skydiving nightmare. It gives me the creeps just thinking about it.

Well and truly off, yes.
Adding to this mix is that the person moves back and forth between being an AFFI and wingsuiter. Shifting disciplines, tight calls, it can lead to trouble... It can bite anyone.
Be vigilant out there, check yourself, check your buddy. Be consistent.

[normiss 622]

Good points to bear in mind to say the least.

[Zeemax 0]

On any WS that I flight line check (they are mandatory here in the UK), I get real close and personal and will physically grab the straps, trying to get my fingers under them.

I make a joke of it, suggesting i'm just trying to touch their junk, but for me, the test works, and I know for definite if they're in their leg straps or not.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[normiss 622]

Thank you!

*do you give reach arounds too???*

[mccordia 73]

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I make a joke of it

I used to make a joke out of it as well, but sadly the joke lost its shine a bit when somebodies student really did fall out of the harness....

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[ShotterMG 0]

Why not take the guesswork out of it and just unzip the wingsuit to check leg straps normally? You don't have to take your rig off, nor your chest strap. It takes two seconds and you zip it back up. Feeling around through the jumpsuit seems ridiculous and unreliable. Why even bother if you're not going to give a real gear check?

[piisfish 135]

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So his legstraps were well and truly off, not just on and loosened all the way out?
Forgetting simple things like this is my ultimate skydiving nightmare. It gives me the creeps just thinking about it.

Well and truly off, yes.
Adding to this mix is that the person moves back and forth between being an AFFI and wingsuiter. Shifting disciplines, tight calls, it can lead to trouble... It can bite anyone.
Be vigilant out there, check yourself, check your buddy. Be consistent.

DO WE HAVE NAMES ? We Swiss people are thirsty

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Zeemax 0]

The technique I described works for me, and doesn't require someone who is already geared up and ready to board a plane to undo things.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[DSE 3]

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Why not take the guesswork out of it and just unzip the wingsuit to check leg straps normally? You don't have to take your rig off, nor your chest strap. It takes two seconds and you zip it back up. Feeling around through the jumpsuit seems ridiculous and unreliable. Why even bother if you're not going to give a real gear check?

That would sure work, if you don't mind people unzipping (creates a greater risk factor, IMO) on the aircraft. I used to do this for students, but it creates problems for TI's and other skydivers on the load. The "shrug" method is predominantly an in-air means of triple-checking. Zeemax' method works on the ground. Shrugging works in larger aircraft.
I don't feel the method matters much, so long as the end result is (hopefully) always the same.
The bigger point is that we are checking each other's gear. We've already seen the result of a coach not giving even a single gear check.
Awareness is high, and the fact that this happened to a very experienced skydiver/wingsuiter/AFFI should demonstrate that continuing vigilance is a good mindset. New suit, rushed load, complacency not withstanding...
No point in crucifying this guy; he made a potentially bad mistake and it was caught before it turned tragic.
None of us are without faults; let's try to catch each other where we can.

[kallend 1,623]

I have made a habit of always telling someone nearby "I am putting my legstraps on" while I am putting them on and tightening them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[davelepka 4]

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I don't feel the method matters much, so long as the end result is (hopefully) always the same.
The bigger point is that we are checking each other's gear.

Just to add to that, in tight situations like a Cessna, physically checking the other jumpers gear isn't always neccesarry. If you ask them if their legstraps are on and tightened, they can easily check it themselves, and the end result is the same, you didn't let your buddy jump without a gear check.

Sometimes you can do the check, and sometimes you just have to ensure that somebody checks, be it another jumper, or the jumper in question. The end result is that it gets done.