Question About Student Suits ...

[Butters 0]

When did a (home made) Mach1 become a student suit?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[michalm21 0]

"Chris Warnock is a TI, AFFI, Rigger, Canopy Coach, and videographer at Skydive Utah."

With a few thousand jumps under his belt (what I'm guessing), doesn't seem like a big deal at all.

[mccordia 73]

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When did a (home made) Mach1 become a student suit?

Unlike you, I actually READ the article, and noticed he had done an FFC and initial wingsuit jumps way before he jumped this one.

From the article:

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I’d already been through a First Flight Course with Scott Gray, and a refresher course with Scotty Burns, but both those classes had been several months ago.

Though its not the best suit-choice (in size) for a recurrency jump, its also not the worst-case scenario of an FFC in loads of fabric.

In general, I prefer suits without grippers for FFCs. Both due to un-obstructed pull, people not clamping grippers with all their strength (and having no power left to pull) and people doing weird grasping things to get their grippers if they loose em (not knowing they are always there, connected to your wrist).

And a lot of experienced flyers even use the grippers wrong (pulling on them, instead of just shaping the wing by only pointing them the correct way and allowing the inflation to do the work of keeping the wingshape).

Anyways...roll the kettle with the tar and feathers back into your basement...

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With a few thousand jumps under his belt (what I'm guessing), doesn't seem like a big deal at all.

From 200 to 20.000 jumps. Though people usually tend to deal with it a bit better at higher jumpnumbers, sensible choice in suit for an FFC is the same for all. Anyone at any experience level can get in shit with a wingsuit if they try hard enough. A huge suit on your FFC in my book does qualify as 'trying harder'

So any reasoning works...but not the one you mention Michal..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

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When did a (home made) Mach1 become a student suit?

Unlike you, I actually READ the article, and noticed he had done an FFC and initial wingsuit jumps way before he jumped this one.

From the article:

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I’d already been through a First Flight Course with Scott Gray, and a refresher course with Scotty Burns, but both those classes had been several months ago.

I actually READ the article. You forgot to include ...

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First I sat down in my living room & watched the FlockU DVD that I’d edited, Wingsuits 101, to refresh my memory. Next I called on my WS instructor friend, Douglas Spotted Eagle, and requested that he run me through all the ‘what-ifs’ (ie: what if I go upside down, what if I start spinning, what if I can’t find my handles).

... I didn't call it a student suit because he was taking a FFC, I called it a student suit because he was still asking student questions.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mccordia 73]

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... I didn't call it a student suit because he was taking a FFC, I called it a student suit because he was still asking student questions.

Its the EXPERIENCED people who dont ask questions that always scare the fu*ck out of me

When someone thinks he or she is too cool or experienced to ask the simple questions on things he/she wants to remember/refresh or just have their current knowledge confirmed.

Its awesome seeing someone with those jumps numbers and experience actually ask someone for instruction and information..

And if the choice of suit is wise or unwise for his experience level, thats one thats up to the coach/instructor or friend he is jumping with...
Without seeing his logbook and hearing his exact WS experience, that's not something Id be willing to judge at this point..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[BlindBrick 0]

I noticed that but was was more concerned about the part where he promises to keep Tony's wing rib tech confidential and then posts pics of the templates.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[jakee 1,255]

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I noticed that but was was more concerned about the part where he promises to keep Tony's wing rib tech confidential and then posts pics of the templates.

What part was that?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mccordia 73]

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confidential wing rib tech

Whats there to see there, one can not find out by opening a wingsuit (of any brand) to see exactly the same thing?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mnskydiver688 0]

Well I don't think there are a lot of top secret designs with wingsuits. If someone wanted to figure out the design, just buy a suit and take it apart. I don't think it is necessarily about the design just that Tony doesn't want rogue Tony-suits flying around. Considering the amount of work involved he shouldn't worry.

In regards to Butters post, I wonder about what people fly right off of a FFC too. I have noticed that once a highly experienced jumper does a successful first flight course he gets the keys to castle in regards to whatever suit he wants to fly. if someone with 500 jumps goes and does a FFC and then on his second or third flight wants to fly a Mach 1 what would be the average response? Keep flying that Intro for a while and then maybe try a Raptor or other comparable suit.

But, I guess it really not my place since I do not know him and do not fly with him. Personally, I will continue promoting a more conservative approach to wingsuit progression.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[BlindBrick 0]

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confidential wing rib tech

Whats there to see there, one can not find out by opening a wingsuit (of any brand) to see exactly the same thing?

This may just be me, but to me it goes against the spirit of the agreement he had with Tony even if it doesn't give a competitor an advantage.

And to answer your question Jarno, there's not, but you can justify a lot of screwed up stuff by saying "I just did what someone else could have."

Of course, I was raised in an area that seems to always been thirty years behind the rest of the country, so maybe I'm just being too old fashioned. You guys just need to apply some ponies, beer and waffels to modernize me.


-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[jakee 1,255]

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This may just be me, but to me it goes against the spirit of the agreement he had with Tony even if it doesn't give a competitor an advantage.

What agreement? Where did he say he'd keep it confidential? All I read was that he told Tony he wont make any more, which it sounds like he wont. Don't see any problem.

(BTW, I saw some pics on Facebook today of Tony, in Tony's workshop, constructing the inside of an XS-legwing. In one of them he's holding a rib up for the camera.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BenediktDE 2]

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Its the EXPERIENCED people who dont ask questions that always scare the fu*ck out of me

German huggs for that one, dude! ;)

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[VectorBoy 0]

I thought it was a pretty positive article all around. Educational and inspiring to those of us who might have to one day repair or resize a suit without professional help. Its not always cost effective for the factory to do this.

I was really expecting a warmer response for the article from the wingsuit forum.

[Bill_K 0]

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I thought it was a pretty positive article all around. Educational and inspiring to those of us who might have to one day repair or resize a suit without professional help. Its not always cost effective for the factory to do this.

I was really expecting a warmer response for the article from the wingsuit forum.

+1

I was there and did my first flight course the same weekend with Chris. I remember his thoughts and reactions when he came down. He's a very smart guy with an incredible work ethic. I liked the write up and think he should be given some props for thinking outside the box and doing what he did.

[michalm21 0]

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So any reasoning works...but not the one you mention Michal..

Point taken Blues

[LouDiamond 1]

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I thought it was a pretty positive article all around. Educational and inspiring to those of us who might have to one day repair or resize a suit without professional help. Its not always cost effective for the factory to do this.

I was really expecting a warmer response for the article from the wingsuit forum.

+1

I was there and did my first flight course the same weekend with Chris. I remember his thoughts and reactions when he came down. He's a very smart guy with an incredible work ethic. I liked the write up and think he should be given some props for thinking outside the box and doing what he did.

I thought the article was pretty good and definitely shows initiative, kudos for doing it. However, this is not the first time we've heard about someone building a suit from scratch on this forum. Late 2003/2004 a dz.commer successfully built his own suit completely from scratch without aid from the mfgr and did a write up in the forum about it.

I can also think of about 2-3 others individuals who have built their own suits and 1 outright copy by a mfgr usually associated with non wingsuit products in the skydiving industry that ended up in the Met as part of an exhibit. For a short while, in the early years, there were even outright copies of the Classic being made and sold by an individual(s) in Russia. While I find it far more commendable and noteworthy when an average joe does it just for himself and for the experience, this latest one is no where near being what I would consider "outside the box".

Now before any HA/ADD/reading comprehension challenged types hit the reply button to spew their vitriol, I think it was very cool for the author to build and write about his experience and difficulties in building a suit. Hopefully everyone who reads the article and flies a wingsuit can now appreciate how much work, time and energy the wingsuit mfgrs put into designing and manufacturing their suits for their customers enjoyment.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Bill_K 0]

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"outside the box".

I simply meant, vs. saying the hell with it and putting one on a CC like I would have done. I was not meaning in a design sense or new innovations. I simply meant he was faced with a challenge and he chose to be creative and make one.

[VectorBoy 0]

Its not the first for sure no claim in the article that it was. I've personally seen home made suits that were not as good as a factory classic. The wingsuit in the display made by a canopy manufacturer doesn't really count as home made IMO. I'm sure the inspiration to copy the Tony comes from DSE's stable of them, they fly well, inflate nicely. The Tony suit is very simple in design, almost un- elegant in simplicity but pure function.

If I was going to copy a suit, or a portion of a suit to replace a portion that wasn't functional on another suit, the Tony style is what I'd try and replicate.