Phantom 2 vs. Raptor

[jcbfly 1]

I'm a self taught bird from a very small DZ where I'm the only WS pilot. I've got about 70 flights on a Tony Intro, and I'm starting to dream about a higher performance, but still easy to fly suit. The Phantom 2 and Raptor seem like two good options. Would anyone with experience in both suits help me out by sharing their experience? What are the differences? Which one is better in terms of ease of use? Which is better from a performance standpoint? What other suits should I be looking at?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Phil routinely jumps a Raptor these days and I routinely jump a Phantom2. We do aerobatics together all the time in the two suits and they fly together with great compatibility. The Raptor has more lift, as it has bigger wings, but that only matters at the very end of the flock when everyone tears away. Both have equal lift on their backs in my opinion, but a better comparison might be a Raptor versus a Ghost.

Chuck

[mnskydiver688 0]

What body types are optimal for the suit? Would a 150lb 5'9" guy in a Phantom 2 play well with a 175lb 5'11" guy in a Raptor? Also how is the wing area in comparison to say an S6?

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[Butters 0]

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What body types are optimal for the suit? Would a 150lb 5'9" guy in a Phantom 2 play well with a 175lb 5'11" guy in a Raptor? Also how is the wing area in comparison to say an S6?

How about a 150lb 5'7" guy.

PS: Don't you like your wingsuit? I thought that last flight went really well and can't wait for next season (or maybe Wissota or Waseca).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mnskydiver688 0]

I am a numbers guy and while the last flight was awesome, solo flights leave me unsatisfied. I am by no means looking at switching suits considering I am just getting comfortable in this one, but I am wondering how it stacks up against other suits out there.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[tr027 0]

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Would a 150lb 5'9" guy in a Phantom 2 play well with a 175lb 5'11" guy in a Raptor?

IF one of them has experience and skill, yes it's easy. Or is this assuming both guys are newbs? If it doesn't work out at first it's because one or both need to learn to fly.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[notsane 0]

I have to agree with Chuck.

I've got a number of flights on both suits and they're both great choices. The Phantom2 is probably a more aerobatic suit and is a great backflying suit. It's very easy to play with and is a ball. The Raptor has more arm and leg wing, and if you're looking for more forward speed and slower fall rates, it's the suit to pick between the two. It's also a great backflyer.

Chuck makes a point too ... it's probably a closer comparison between the Raptor and the Ghost. The Phantom2 probably compares more closely to Tony's Aerobat.

So ... which suit to buy? It depends what you want from them. Come down to Z-Hills and jump them all ... then decide. Never, ever buy a suit without jumping one first ... IMHO.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Egggzackkkly! We have plenty of both hanging on the rack in the school. Come visit.

[keithbar 1]

(fingers crossed) hopefully, maybe I'll get to demo a raptor. this next weekend. tony says he has one in my size. XXL!

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[droquette 0]

you might qualify for the deal tony has on returning the INTRO and getting credit towards your raptor.. if $$ is a thought that might make all the difference...

plus tony suits are the sH$%#$%

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[jcbfly 1]

Thanks for the invitation to visit Z-Hills and try out some suits. Fly B4 U buy makes a lot of sense.

It'll be after Christmas B4 I can make the trip, so meanwhile I'll keep rocking the Intro and asking questions about what to look for.

Based on your observations I think the Raptor is more what I'm looking for. So far I like flying for speed and distance more than aerobatics, and since I'm the only WS at my DZ I don't do much flocking

Is the S-Fly Expert kinda in the same class as the Raptor and Ghost? Any others I should be checking out?

[peggs82 0]

Wonderful! Come down and fly with us! Both Chuck and I will enjoy the flights with you. I've refrained from posting here on this thread, because I feel it was all covered quite well by most people. With that being said, I will speak mostly about my experience on the raptor, and then comment on my lesser experience with the phantom.

I have many many many many flights on my raptor, I never take it off any more. In it, I have the range to fly with almost anyone. It is a very very versatile suit...one I think you would be very very happy with. After having an intro, I think it will be a nice transitiion for you. It is a very stable platform for flocking if that sort of thing appeals to you. It has great range, both slow and fast. A perfect all around, "lets have fun" suit!!

As a new wingsuiter, I challenge you to break out of the "time/distance" mold, and learn some "wingsuit freefly" skills. Get off your stomach, and on your back!! I spend almost all my time on my back in the suit. It will be a tremendous learning tool for you. It is absolutely rock solid, and easy to fly. Inflation is solid (as you all ready know from your intro). I have more range on my back, than most do on their stomachs!

Since you mentioned that right now, you are into time/distance, I'll say that I do have some very nice flights on my raptor, just floating around. Its an easy suit to max out, and very well balanced for long flights. Arm fatigue is a non-issue.

As chuck said, we fly together all the time. A phantom will do quite nice for you, but like he said, a more accurate comparison would be between the ghost and raptor.

Do not mis-read me, the phantom is a fantastic suit. One that you would likely have a ton of fun in, and it would serve you well for almost everything you will do in the near future. My only thought, is that if you are all-ready on an Intro, either a Raptor or a Ghost would be the more appropriate choice, as the Phantom would not be a tremendous step up (size/range wise).

The S-Fly Expert is a different animal alltogether. As a mono-wing design, you will find that it requires different skills to fly it correctly. I would place the Expert in the aerobat range of suit. The Profly would be closer to a Raptor/Ghost. We have those on the shelf too! do get around to flocking), I think you will find that the (average) speed of our flocks makes the suit difficult to keep steady (unless you have alot of time in the suit). IMHO, the expert requires speed to keep it's lift, and many of our flocks are not fast (forward speed).

We'll see you soon then at Zhills. You will be able to fly whatever suit you want...its really like having the keys to a toy store!

[jakee 1,257]

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In my american flocking expericne (when you do get around to flocking), I think you will find that the (average) speed of our flocks makes the suit difficult to keep steady (unless you have alot of time in the suit). IMHO, the expert requires speed to keep it's lift, and many of our flocks are not fast (forward speed).

Why not!?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[peggs82 0]

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Why not!?

Why are the flocks not fast? Or why do I find the suit difficult to fly in slow forward speed flocks?

A fast flock?...well take that up with the rest of the wingsuit community, as that question is beyond the scope of the OP's questions, and a topic that has been discussed on here ad naseaum...

Why is the suit difficult to fly?...well like I said, that was based on my opinion...your results may vary. Soooo, that being said, I feel that the suit must have speed to maintain the same lift, that other commonly used suits can produce at much lower forward speeds. Argue if you want, but I am basing my opinion here on my own previous experience with the suit...not on anything else

[jakee 1,257]

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Why are the flocks not fast?

That one.

Get a base who knows how to stick their legs out! If the flock's not moving it's just FS in gimp suits

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[VectorBoy 0]

The issue is getting everyone out of the craft in time to join the formation. If the base puts the jets on late divers must afterburn to a formation ( not safe unless well skilled in the last second flare). Aircraft departure heading and glide slope are critical for the base or the late divers will have even more distance to make up.

Prediction is we will have big way wingsuiters hanging half the load on the outside of the aircraft like all of those nostalgic pictures of jumpers standing outside of the beech 18s.

In time all of these skills will be more easily cultivated in the average flocker who is willing to learn and maybe with radios we might see a two stage base departure speed curve.