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unclecharlie95

Greetings from Stupino!

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It was the design of the suit that makes it possible to fly for 3 and a half minutes without getting that tired. I set out to design a suit that I felt everyone would fly. At the time I didn't care about better performance it just went in that direction almost on its own. :)



AND it doesn't have those gay trailing edge scallops, always a plus.

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as we already speak at F&D.
Next year the proposal is to jump from 7000 ft and fly to 3000 ft .... 90degree from flight line toward the LZ.
This way the endurance problem will be eliminate. Whole competition will be visible, over the DZ and the wind factor greatly reduced as well.

This will be good for all and especially for me because I can find such rock easy were I have only 4000 ft to fly
;)B|:D:D:D:D



Fatigue often results from tensing up muscles you don't actually need. This often happens when flying a suit you're not used to. That's why I though the Blade was much heavier on the arms and pecks than the V2. The trick I would give you is to get into the correct flying position and then relaxing all your muscles while maintaining the same body position. This will make you relax the muscles you don't really need and ultimately makes you less tired during a flight.

Glad to be of service,
Tristan
Will you answer "NO" to my next question?

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yes, yes... but i guess i am use to my v2 ....
after 60 sec of my style flying the problem starts... simply the best way is to train from higher alt which i don't have so often near me.
i guess i know how to fly thoug... relaxing in max performance... well try for yourself... you'll not cover much for sure...
;)
Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com

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yes, yes... but i guess i am use to my v2 ....
after 60 sec of my style flying the problem starts... simply the best way is to train from higher alt which i don't have so often near me.
i guess i know how to fly thoug... relaxing in max performance... well try for yourself... you'll not cover much for sure...
;)



Dear Robert,

I hope you understand I was joking:P.

But you don't understand what I mean. I meant get into the optimal flying position (which of course means tensing a lot of muscles) and then try to relax while maintaining the same body position. Now while still using the muscles you need for the performance you are not using the muscles that are not necessary. Sorry, can't explain it any better, it works for me...
Tristan
Will you answer "NO" to my next question?

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Ciao Tristan, long time no see!
Let me help you explain what you are saying. When you say relax, it does not mean get floppy, it means use your chi (or qi, but mind you, not your Q.I., as intellect is often our enemy). It is a phenomenon well known in the internal martial arts: a small guy with skinny muscles will send flying a muscle builder, three times his/her weight. These people obviously don't use their muscle power (they have little of it), they rather use a formidable source of endless energy, they don't get tired and keep smiling achieving incredible performance. When applying this principle to our art, the problem comes from the fact that we must lock the joints and precisely this is what prevent chi from flowing, so Robi how about designing a new sail in which the pilot will not need to go into a rigor mortis state?
All this to say I agree with you, Tristan: let's keep smiling as we do it and the parasite muscle tensions will dissolve.
JJ
radis, sel, rôt!

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if one go to RM state, it will also fly like dead body.
Guys, I do understand what you mean, don't get me wrong but semi relax mode is a must but also this is a problem to keep for long time.

At the end Tristan, go and check your style /relax mode/ let me know what you get.
I am using semirelax mode with excelent outcome for about limited time.

R
Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com

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I flew in a max glide body pos. instead of max distance just because I was not sure how I had to fly to win.



This is the most ridiculous phrase i have ever read on this forum ;)

ROTFL :ph34r:

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On the second flight I went into max glide untill Robbi (who left after me) passed under me



He actually passed over you, but that is a minor detail :)

Robi did 2 maxed-out flights in the 90 minutes before comp jump - that should have automatically disqualified him as a perfomance pilot for at least a couple of hours. It is impossible to fly this tired. You did not do these flights, and that makes a HUGE difference.

All the talk about "everybody flocking all day" is pure BS for 2 reasons. One, the main factor, it is a short-term fatigue from those jumps immediately before the comp that makes a difference. Another, well, you should know the difference between a maxed-out entire flight and a flock freefall :P

Anyway, guys, quit kidding yourself. Even if you put this particular race as a draw with each one winning 1 flight, the big picture is obvious: Jeff is the only guy flying M1 fairly well. On a good day, he managed to beat Robi on 1 flight and loose on one. Now i hate to say this, but as good a flyer Robi is, he is not representing Vampire perfomance at the moment! He is not in top physical form right now. There are now many pilots flying considerably better. Look at the Stupino results - and they do not even include top 3 (or more) flyers!

Here is some math for you: the best 3 Vampire pilots i know presently fly at roughly 0.5 L/D better than Robi's (and yours) comp flights. That, Jeff, is a HUGE difference. If you look at an average between top 3 Vampire pilots (or top 5 if you wish) and top 3 or 5 M1 pilots, the difference will be closer to 1! It is incredibly big difference, and this is why you, Jeff, will NEVER post any perfomance numbers, so i am posting them for you. They are quite horrible, except for the freefall time (he he, he said fall. Argue all you want :)

More math for you to interprete Stupino results and account for the wind:

i have just made 5 or 6 flights at ITW with #4 at the table (just above Robi, equal perfomance). The true glide with base rig was consistently around 2.1..2.2. You can substract another bit (around .1...2) for skydiving rig and another bit for fatigue (2min instead for 45sec). This makes a very conservative estimate of about 2.0 (probably a bit less), and the rest - about .6 - was the wind.

As a side note on "its a pilot", this #4 kid has about 15 flights on V1 and about 35 total WS jumps, combined base and skydiving :)
I hate to post my numbers, but looking at recent ITW flights and above wind corrections, i fly about .2...3 better than #1 on the list, and J.N. beats me about 50% of the time. There's a few more people who fly very close and maybe a bit better yet. That is already a sizable pool of people who fly Vampires at, as i just said, .5 better than Jeff personally and 1 (thats L/D we started with on Classics) then top M1 pool average. So it IS the suit, on average!


Now that you are tired with math, a very basic science and aerodynamics for you to consider:

Extra wing surface near hips (that defines M1 or Ghost or other new flocking suits) decreases wing loading, stall speed and fatigue, but it also increases drag and decreases L/D. This is a simple scientific fact, and you cannot get around it. L/D is all about aspect ratio and reducing drag. Look at Prodigy - a funny little toy, that i now fly at about 2.0 L/D on an average BASE flight. It glides as well as any of the fat, slow flocking suits we have just discussed - only much faster.

Anyway, i will be very happy to fly with anybody in the mountains any time this summer. You can get precise numbers and a lot of fun this way :) Otherwise, flame on!

bsbd!

Yuri.

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Ciao Tristan, long time no see!
Let me help you explain what you are saying. When you say relax, it does not mean get floppy, it means use your chi (or qi, but mind you, not your Q.I., as intellect is often our enemy).



Yeah, yeah I remember that : tapping your chi. It was on the last page of the original birdman instructor manual. I accidentally washed mine and don't have it available for reference.

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Here is some math for you: the best 3 Vampire pilots i know presently fly at roughly 0.5 L/D better than Robi's (and yours) comp flights. That, Jeff, is a HUGE difference. If you look at an average between top 3 Vampire pilots (or top 5 if you wish) and top 3 or 5 M1 pilots, the difference will be closer to 1! It is incredibly big differencebsbd!

Yuri.



I would like to see where Lodi's french secret weapon falls in line with the top vampire pilots. He is like 7 foot tall. Even when another competitor attached a base PC to his ankles to as a handicap he still won.

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I would like to see where Lodi's french secret weapon falls in line with the top vampire pilots. He is like 7 foot tall. Even when another competitor attached a base PC to his ankles to as a handicap he still one.



If you'd like to see that, measure and post the numbers! ;)

BTW who are you talking about? 7 foot tall would suggest a huge wing span and consequetly a crazy L/D potential :)
babs!

Yuri.

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it means use your chi (or qi, but mind you, not your Q.I., as intellect is often our enemy). It is a phenomenon well known in the internal martial arts: a small guy with skinny muscles will send flying a muscle builder, three times his/her weight. These people obviously don't use their muscle power (they have little of it), they rather use a formidable source of endless energy, they don't get tired and keep smiling achieving incredible performance. When applying this principle to our art, the problem comes from the fact that we must lock the joints and precisely this is what prevent chi from flowing, so Robi how about designing a new sail in which the pilot will not need to go into a rigor mortis state?



Ninja wingsuit skills? :P

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You have to consider the pilot also. Loic Jean Albert won the overall title at the 2006 World Wingsuit Competition held there in Stupino. He flew none of the above.



Birds are excluded! :)

Other top fliers have improved a lot this year, so today Loic would have no chance in his old S-Fly. So, he just came out with Pro-Fly and he is the best that nobody can touch.

Now if he was flying a Vampire.... oh my god! ;)

bsbd!

Yuri.

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I flew in a max glide body pos. instead of max distance just because I was not sure how I had to fly to win.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the most ridiculous phrase i have ever read on this forum

ROTFL


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In Reply To
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On the second flight I went into max glide untill Robbi (who left after me) passed under me

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Im not sure exactly what you find rediculous about that
Yes you are correct Robbi did pass over me and when I saw him i caught up then maintianed his forward speed while still gaining alttitude. At the end of the jump he started falling faster due to long wing tip fatigue.
As far as top physicle form goes I'm far from it and I did drink heavily untill 5a.m. the night before the comp. so I did not have any strenth advantage, quite the opposite. And like I said in my previous post I'm a back flyer and do not have as much time on my bellie as someone with half of my jumps.

I do not post numbers because I jump with people not computers. I have nothing to hide, just havent justified spending the money on a G.P.S.
I'm patiantly waiting on a system someone is developing to see glide ratio, we'll see if it works

I'm not sure where you are getting your MACH 1 data from, and I'm not sure you have flown both suits extensivly (like I have).
I can say for sure having the experience of flying almost every suit on the market I could not have won in any but the MACH 1.
I can say I will never tire when it comes to math because that is my favorite subject.

And im not sure about the prodigie out flying many other suits having flown it, it does fly nicely
Im not sure when I will be in Eu. but I will get there and look forward to skirting a cliff wall.
and I look forward to jumping with loic that would be great
as you can see im just not to sure today about anything, so its beer time mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........................:D;) Jeff Nebelkopf
BUY A WINGSUIT
My Website
Tony Suits
[url "http:/

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Looking mighty sweet!
Love those side pics, showing the staggered/stacked (sorry..bad english knowledge) buildup towards the back of the formation...

Was the MI8 doing 'static' exits, or still cruising?
And which one of the two makes for easyer flocking/buildup?

And is that whole bunch also coming to germany?
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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Was the MI8 doing 'static' exits, or still cruising?
And which one of the two makes for easyer flocking/buildup??



Heli was running in with around 50knots, a hover exit would suck, putting everyone on top of each other and people would have stability problems in the dead air.
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And is that whole bunch also coming to germany?


A few of them might...
BASEstore.it

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Thanks for all the info Yuri. I realize you've flown with Robi many times, but IMHO I think you're shorting him some credit. I've flown with him so to say anyone can fly a V2 .5 better than his best in the Vx is difficult to fathom unless you're comparing dissimilar environments (sky vs base).
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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