hottamaly 1 #1 July 16, 2003 After reading about it in Parachutist, I then have talked to 2 different riggers that have confirmed that a "bad batch" of reserve cables are out there. A couple of them have broken at the cable/pin attachment point which leaves the pin in the closing loop after the reserve cable has been pulled. We know what that might lead too. Go have your rigger check it to be sure you are safe. Skydiving gave me a reason to live I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 July 16, 2003 It just showed up in the Parachute History newsletter, as well. http://ParachuteHistory.com/equipment/rcpin.pdf - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #3 July 17, 2003 I had been told by one of the manufacturers as recently as three weeks ago that the problem had been isolated to a single batch of bad steel delivered to Capewell. When I chacked that with Bob Francis, VP at Capewell last week, he was surprised by that because he said Capewell had not yet figured out what the problem is, or what ripcord pins might be involved. The Product Service Bulletin extends the concern to ALL ripcord pins manufactured by Capewell between November 28 2001 and July 15, 2003. Just about every ripcord pin in use in the United States was probably manufactured by Capewell. All drop zones should make a big push to have all ripcord pins tested ASAP. The test looks simple. http://parachutehistory.com/equipment/rcpin.pdf Tom Buchanan Senior Parachute Rigger S&TA The RanchTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #4 July 17, 2003 Tom, Not wanting to flood their office with calls......... Did Bob Francis provide any probable cause? Or, specific manufacturers? Thanks & Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geronimo 1 #5 July 17, 2003 Quote Did Bob Francis provide any probable cause? Or, specific manufacturers? Capewell does NOT know the cause of this. I talked with (not email but a real live phone call) Gary Douris and Sandy Reid about this before the SB was officially distributed. Virtually, ALL US made rigs have pins from Capewell. Some mfg make their ripcords, but with pins from Capewell. Others have Capewell make the RC in whole. There is NO requirement to trace the DOM for RCs. It is not in the TSO and is not done. So, even if your customer has a 5 or 10 year old rig there is no way to verify that the ripcord is that old or mfg before 2001. RCs can be replaced because of a malfunction or change in handle or whatever. If someone bought a used rig after 2001 there is no way to determine the DOM for the RC. In other words, all ripcords should be tested - if not before the next use definitely at the next repack. The vast majority of rigs can be tested without pulling the RC. The test can be done with the RC in place. Only those rigs with the shank (or body as the SB calls it) already entering the housing need to have the ripcord pulled & use test two. Temp pins can probably be used to keep the original pack job in place. But I'm not a rigger - so what do I know. .--- I have a dream that my posts will one day will not be judged by the color of the fonts or settings in a Profile but by the content. Geronimo_AT_http://ParachuteHistory.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #6 July 17, 2003 QuoteVirtually, ALL US made rigs have pins from Capewell. Some mfg make their ripcords, but with pins from Capewell. Not true! Jump Shack manufacutres the pins in addition to the ripcords. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geronimo 1 #7 July 17, 2003 QuoteQuoteVirtually, ALL US made rigs have pins from Capewell. Some mfg make their ripcords, but with pins from Capewell. Not true! Jump Shack manufacutres the pins in addition to the ripcords. JumpShack does NOT mfg the pins, only the complete RC assemblies. see also Skydiving Newsmagazine # 264--- I have a dream that my posts will one day will not be judged by the color of the fonts or settings in a Profile but by the content. Geronimo_AT_http://ParachuteHistory.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
askir 0 #8 July 17, 2003 I have been looking at a few handles and it is difficult to discern what the manufacture date is, for instance handle says SP 02 @ am I to assume that Sun path made it in 2002? or was the handle only made in 02 and the pin in ? Have two rigs with soft hadles no numbers, what to do here? PL 92 perhaps means parachute labs 1992? If anyone can clear this up I would appreciate it I am getting lots of phone calls from worried jumpers. LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 July 17, 2003 If I were in the position of having to advise customers what to do, I would say get the pins checked. The testing takes all of 5 minutes. Why not do it and be sure it is in compliance?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #10 July 17, 2003 Quote PL 92 perhaps means parachute labs 1992?. Sounds right. PL02 means Parachute Labs 2002, and PL03 means Parachute Labs 2003. PL703 means Parachute Labs AFTER ripcord pin hardness inspections began in 2003. PL is, as you guessed, Jump Shack. That information comes from a conversation with Nancy LaRiviere in early July. I would guess that PL92 means 1992, but that's just a guess. I can't figure out some of the other codes, and I have a ripcord on an old Mirage with just a star stamp and nothing else. It seems like the best thing to do is to inspect every ripcord. It would be nice if USPA or PIA called each manufacturer and prepared a "white paper" listing all the codes and manufacturing history, but without such research it seems the best thing to do is an every ripcord check. Anybody know how they are planning to handle this at the WFFC? How about other drop zones? The PSB is mandatory...are other DZ's enforcing that? Tom Buchanan S&TA, The Ranch Senior Parachute RiggerTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #11 July 17, 2003 Jan, Thanks. Most of your info appears right on. Although most manufacturers know who they have sold to and most manufacturers know who they have as vendors. Something of this magnitude should cause all manufacturers to jump on the boat with the info. Thanks to you and Tom for your research. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
askir 0 #12 July 17, 2003 OK...got the nomenclature somewhat understood. However if you look at the testing force of 15lbs in place and 11 lbs in the block, that is more than the mil spec specified. I know two Master Riggers who are going to refuse to do this test, as they feel this is not a reliable test. I have spoken with a manufacturer this morning who agrees with this. He feels it is a bit invasive, also soft handles that aren't labelled, what to do here? "THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF PIN BENDING OUT THERE!!!" this is verbatum from a manufacturer who has been in the biz 3 decades LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
czechbase 0 #13 July 17, 2003 Just a comment, if one has an AAD and let's just say hypothetically that the reserve pin broke, the cypress would still cut away the reserve cord so it wouldn't matter if the pin was there correct? Of course this depends if its a high/low speed malfunction or if it's too low for the AAD to fire? Any comments on that?www.motavi.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #14 July 17, 2003 This assumes that: - Your AAD is on. - Your AAD is set correctly - You don't put yourself in a situation in which the AAD can't help, like a low cutaway What am I saying? We all know that AADs are 100% reliable and fully automatic and we should trust them 100%. (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #15 July 17, 2003 QuoteA couple of them have broken at the cable/pin attachment point Actually they broke at the shoulder of the pin itself. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #16 July 17, 2003 QuoteOK...got the nomenclature somewhat understood. However if you look at the testing force of 15lbs in place and 11 lbs in the block, that is more than the mil spec specified. I know two Master Riggers who are going to refuse to do this test, as they feel this is not a reliable test. I have spoken with a manufacturer this morning who agrees with this. He feels it is a bit invasive, also soft handles that aren't labelled, what to do here? "THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF PIN BENDING OUT THERE!!!" this is verbatum from a manufacturer who has been in the biz 3 decades Something to keep in mind here is the testing methods are DIFFERENT. The test method in AS 8015 rev.B specifies to support the pin in a 1/2" block (approx. .75" from the shoulder), and put an 8 pound load perpendicular to the axis of the pin at the end opposite the block for 3 seconds. Capewell's Test 2 specifies supporting the pin .188" from the shoulder and loading the exposed end with 11 pounds. The moment arm of the two tests are completely different. If you do the 8015 test with 11 pounds, there is a good chance you will bend the pin. Capewell is trying to test the specific area of the pins that have been known to fail. I am waiting to get an answer from Capewell regarding whether the 8015 test is sufficent (if done in four directions per Test 2). To add to the confusion, there have been problems with pins from two different manufacturers (Capewell and Parachute Labs). It seems as though in an attempt to avoid some of the problems with pins from Capewell, P.L. contracted to have some pins made from another vendor. Some of these pins have cracked at the body (where the cable is swaged). From what I understand, very few of these pins made it to rig customers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #17 July 17, 2003 QuoteThe Product Service Bulletin extends the concern to ALL ripcord pins manufactured by Capewell between November 28 2001 and July 15, 2003. Just about every ripcord pin in use in the United States was probably manufactured by Capewell. Can anyone confirm which containers from which manufacturers are affected by this? Any that aren't? Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #18 July 17, 2003 I just got word back from Capewell, and they say the AS8015 test is NOT adequate. It would be safe to assume that any rig built after Nov. 2001 would be affected, along with any older rig that has had a ripcord replaced after Nov. 2001. The test only takes about 5 minutes including paperwork. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #19 July 17, 2003 Kelly, I'm confused. Which test are you then recommending? Please describe it again so that I can follow up with my rigger. I'd much take your recommendation to my rigger than let them do what they think is right. Thanks, CliffPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aneblett 0 #20 July 17, 2003 vicki I spoke to RI this morning and they said that all manufacturers have used capewell assemblies or pins in the past so if you had your rig within the dates mentioned then get it tested. ageS.E.X. party #2 ..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 July 17, 2003 The only rig's I can imagine that are not affected are factory RSL equiped Vectors. They do not use any of the affected pin types IIRC.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #22 July 17, 2003 You should be able to get a copy of the SB from Capewell (or someone on DZ.com). It's called CW03-01. Essentially, it requires one of two methods of testing. The first allows the rig to stay closed and pinned, the second if for loose ripcords or for rigs which you can't get the test done due to pin placement (S-class Reflex and Racers, mostly). We're using the first of the two methods here in the shop....and basically testing everyone. Perris Valley is requiring everyone to be tested and is charging $5 for the paperwork and time. We'll most likely be doing exactly the same thing. The nutshell version of the First test (where the rig stays pinned) is to larkshead a pullup cord around the body of the pin, and with the Blade of the pin properly positioned (Shoulder is 3/16" from the loop), you apply 15 lbs of pressure to the pullup cord (at 90 degrees to the long axis of the pin...that is, straight up) for 3 seconds. Then you rotate the pin 90 degrees around the long axis and do the test again. Continue this until all four sides are tested. The SB says you should mark each face of the Body of the pin so that you know which sides have been tested. You're supposed to check for visible deformity or any bending during each pull test. Inspection should be made without magnification, but the ripcord comes out of service if any bending is present. For the complete process (and for info ont he Second type of test) get a copy of the SB. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy 5 #23 July 17, 2003 For any Aussies or people who have bought Talon/Voodoo containers manufactured in Australia, Parachutes Australia have advised that no ripcord pins affected by this service bulletin have been used in the manufacture of PA products. (Parachutes Australia manufactures RI containers locally for the Australian market. I guess they must source the pins locally too) I tried to attach the Product Service Bulletin from Capewell but it's too big. Anyone who wants it can PM me and I'll e-mail it to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #24 July 18, 2003 QuoteI tried to attach the Product Service Bulletin from Capewell but it's too big. Anyone who wants it can PM me and I'll e-mail it to them. post the URL instead.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy 5 #25 July 18, 2003 It's not a url, it's in an e-mail. I sent it to Lisa so she might upload it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
