skybytch 259 #1 January 14, 2008 Picked up a Rebel XTI w/kit lens last month (thanks to everyone for the recommendations). I've taken about 1000 shots with it so far - not many of them are any good but I'm learning. The attached pics were taken on sports mode a couple hours before sunset. First two are what the camera took, second two were brightened up a bit in photoshop. Even though the lighting is not ideal I think these are cool pictures. Please tell me why I am wrong, and how I could make them better - with the camera, not with photoshop. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PharmerPhil 0 #2 January 14, 2008 Check out this string: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3064258 Most info there applies to your situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefalle 0 #3 January 14, 2008 There not bad shot, however, I recommend you work on getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings and play with them a lot start at between 200 and 500 set your ISO at 100 for bright days and work it up towards 400 when the sun is going down. You have a great camera, as you gain experience with the manual settings you'll find your photos improve. Have fun with it Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PharmerPhil 0 #4 January 14, 2008 Quote...getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings... TV is an auto setting. In TV (shutter priority) you set the shutter speed, and the camera automatically adjusts the aperature for the correct exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The majority of my freefall photos are taken using TV, but that is very different from manual mode where you pick everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #5 January 14, 2008 Quote Quote ...getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings... TV is an auto setting. In TV (shutter priority) you set the shutter speed, and the camera automatically adjusts the aperature for the correct exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The majority of my freefall photos are taken using TV, but that is very different from manual mode where you pick everything. I think he meant get away from the "fun" settings ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #6 January 15, 2008 I'm going to mostly address the first photo in the list; IMG_0960web.jpg The second shot in the series . . . well, the moment has passed by quite a bit and all you're really doing is looking at his back. While that might work in some photos, I didn't feel it did in this one. Additionally, there's just too much clutter and crap in the background. I'd want to pick my spot so that there was as little as possible. It's not bad as an "artistic" photo of a generic skydiver making a landing at sunset if that is the intention. There may be plenty of valid reasons for making a photo of this type. Maybe you just want a nice piece of theme art to hang in your living room . . . whatever . . . As far as basic composition goes, there's not too much wrong with it. The main action is about 1/3 of the way toward the one side and leading into the photo. Most people would make the noobie mistake of trying to center the jumper which would look odd. One thing I think could be different and better would be if the feet of the jumper didn't break the horizon line. In the second photo, well, the jumper is being cut in two by the horizon . . . to me, that's only going to work in a few cases. There are a TON of great resources for compositional tips on the web. Check out this oldie but goodie. http://photoinf.com/General/NAVY/Photographic_composition_Balance.htm If the photo was intended to show off a particular jumper, then a number of things would need to have been different. Either flash to fill in the shadows and help us see the face of the jumper, or, switch sides on the flight line so the jumper is naturally lit. Obviously, that changes a number of other things in the photo. Personally, I would not try to lighten the photo simply by making everything lighter. What this has done is just made it look washed out.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 5 #7 January 15, 2008 My guess is they're really underexposed, though it's hard to tell with such small files. I played around a little with brightening up just the canopy and the jumper and there's not much to work with, especially with the jumper. I used to (and still occasionally do) underexpose a lot in TV, just by not paying attention to the warning in the viewfinder. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #8 January 15, 2008 In reality, without a powerful flash, backlit pictures aren't going to look great (unless you get that nice silhouette). Any chance you can just stand on the other side of the landing area and get some pics with the sun to your back? At my DZ, I almost always get much better pictures when jumpers are landing to the south than when they are landing to the north, just because of where the sun is. And a lot of times I like to walk way out into the landing area so the sun is behind me. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #9 January 15, 2008 If they're cool to you, then they're cool - and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise!! Backlit shots are hard to pull off - and a lot depends on what you want your focus to be - the silhouette of the jumper against the sky, or the jumper themself? Pick up a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. The information that is in there really helped me when I was struggling to get the exposures that I *wanted* to get. For most shots, now, I'm able to set the exposure for how I want to portray the scene (manual). I'm not perfect at it yet, but it really frees me up to be able to concentrate on my composition and know that I don't have to worry about "did I dial in enough compensation" and such. Stuff I like: Both shots are "leading into" the picture - in a overall sense, that's good. I tend to agree with Quade in what he said about the horizon cutting off parts - it draws the attention away from the subject....sometimes, however, it just can't be helped. They're also both well-focused - something that all DSLR's seem to trip up over from time to time, especially in low light. For just starting out, I think you've done good - I've certainly taken worse shots!!! (And still do, for that matter!!) Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stevebabin 0 #10 January 15, 2008 I noticed that you have some dust on your sensor..."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #11 January 15, 2008 Back lit shots aren't really that hard to pull off. Spot metering on the subject will help a lot (although I don't think the XT, XTi, or D20 have that option). When you have your camera in Auto Mode it "usually" calculates the exposure as an average. When you have the sun in the frame it causes the meter to under expose the image. Try to frame your subject without the sun in the background or push your exposure by a stop or two. I used Spot Metering on these shots.... Exit 1 Exit 2 Exit 3 Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #12 January 15, 2008 All the Canon's prior to the 30D only offer the partial metering, and its a 9 degree angle so its still a large spot that its measuring from. Spot metering is excellent for backlet but the partial weight metering can help for large objects that are centered in your shot. Canon uses the center point for the meter area so an off centered object that is backlit will still be underexposed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #13 January 15, 2008 Wow, thanks for the feedback, tips and links everyone! Especially the composition tips - until it was pointed out I hadn't noticed the horizon being broken by the jumper's feet/body. Attached are the two shots prior, which don't have that issue. I was going for the silhouette effect, thought it turned out well. Comments? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BGill 0 #14 January 15, 2008 Quote Wow, thanks for the feedback, tips and links everyone! Especially the composition tips - until it was pointed out I hadn't noticed the horizon being broken by the jumper's feet/body. Attached are the two shots prior, which don't have that issue. I was going for the silhouette effect, thought it turned out well. Comments? The first one would be nice in B&W since there isn't much color to it. The lens flair in the second one is a problem. I like them both, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PharmerPhil 0 #15 January 15, 2008 I really like the first one. I do think you could lose ten percent to the left and to the top of the image (either crop it out, or aim the camera a little right and down). Leave just enough of those clouds to see the swirls in them. And get rid of those dust specs on the sensor. If I was being real picky (aren't I?), a little more saturation might bring out that sky and strip of grass better, but still leave the jumper in silhouette. Nice shot though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #16 January 15, 2008 Another thing that you can consider is, don't stand and take pictures. Kneel or stand on something. We all walk around all the time and see life from eye level. You can make the pictures stand out a bit by getting away from eye level.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #17 January 16, 2008 QuoteAll the Canon's prior to the 30D only offer the partial metering, and its a 9 degree angle so its still a large spot that its measuring from. Spot metering is excellent for backlet but the partial weight metering can help for large objects that are centered in your shot. Canon uses the center point for the meter area so an off centered object that is backlit will still be underexposed. That's one of the things I love about my D200 - when you select Spot Metering, it meters on the selected focus sensor, so you can effectively Spot Meter anywhere in the frame without recomposing your shot. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #18 January 16, 2008 I guess the newer and more prosumer Canons like the 30D,40D and 5D all spotmeter the same way. Now that I'm getting better at shooting photos I'm seeing where that would be really nice for action photos and better metering for other shots as well. But there is the price and weight trade off to get those features.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #19 January 16, 2008 re: off-center metering: Only the pro bodies have that at the moment (unfortunately). Locking the exposure (AE lock) and recomposing still works just fine. For that matter, so does using manual exposure mode and setting your camera for the light falling on the scene.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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PharmerPhil 0 #2 January 14, 2008 Check out this string: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3064258 Most info there applies to your situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #3 January 14, 2008 There not bad shot, however, I recommend you work on getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings and play with them a lot start at between 200 and 500 set your ISO at 100 for bright days and work it up towards 400 when the sun is going down. You have a great camera, as you gain experience with the manual settings you'll find your photos improve. Have fun with it Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PharmerPhil 0 #4 January 14, 2008 Quote...getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings... TV is an auto setting. In TV (shutter priority) you set the shutter speed, and the camera automatically adjusts the aperature for the correct exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The majority of my freefall photos are taken using TV, but that is very different from manual mode where you pick everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #5 January 14, 2008 Quote Quote ...getting away from using the auto settings, start with the TV settings... TV is an auto setting. In TV (shutter priority) you set the shutter speed, and the camera automatically adjusts the aperature for the correct exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The majority of my freefall photos are taken using TV, but that is very different from manual mode where you pick everything. I think he meant get away from the "fun" settings ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 January 15, 2008 I'm going to mostly address the first photo in the list; IMG_0960web.jpg The second shot in the series . . . well, the moment has passed by quite a bit and all you're really doing is looking at his back. While that might work in some photos, I didn't feel it did in this one. Additionally, there's just too much clutter and crap in the background. I'd want to pick my spot so that there was as little as possible. It's not bad as an "artistic" photo of a generic skydiver making a landing at sunset if that is the intention. There may be plenty of valid reasons for making a photo of this type. Maybe you just want a nice piece of theme art to hang in your living room . . . whatever . . . As far as basic composition goes, there's not too much wrong with it. The main action is about 1/3 of the way toward the one side and leading into the photo. Most people would make the noobie mistake of trying to center the jumper which would look odd. One thing I think could be different and better would be if the feet of the jumper didn't break the horizon line. In the second photo, well, the jumper is being cut in two by the horizon . . . to me, that's only going to work in a few cases. There are a TON of great resources for compositional tips on the web. Check out this oldie but goodie. http://photoinf.com/General/NAVY/Photographic_composition_Balance.htm If the photo was intended to show off a particular jumper, then a number of things would need to have been different. Either flash to fill in the shadows and help us see the face of the jumper, or, switch sides on the flight line so the jumper is naturally lit. Obviously, that changes a number of other things in the photo. Personally, I would not try to lighten the photo simply by making everything lighter. What this has done is just made it look washed out.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #7 January 15, 2008 My guess is they're really underexposed, though it's hard to tell with such small files. I played around a little with brightening up just the canopy and the jumper and there's not much to work with, especially with the jumper. I used to (and still occasionally do) underexpose a lot in TV, just by not paying attention to the warning in the viewfinder. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #8 January 15, 2008 In reality, without a powerful flash, backlit pictures aren't going to look great (unless you get that nice silhouette). Any chance you can just stand on the other side of the landing area and get some pics with the sun to your back? At my DZ, I almost always get much better pictures when jumpers are landing to the south than when they are landing to the north, just because of where the sun is. And a lot of times I like to walk way out into the landing area so the sun is behind me. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 January 15, 2008 If they're cool to you, then they're cool - and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise!! Backlit shots are hard to pull off - and a lot depends on what you want your focus to be - the silhouette of the jumper against the sky, or the jumper themself? Pick up a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. The information that is in there really helped me when I was struggling to get the exposures that I *wanted* to get. For most shots, now, I'm able to set the exposure for how I want to portray the scene (manual). I'm not perfect at it yet, but it really frees me up to be able to concentrate on my composition and know that I don't have to worry about "did I dial in enough compensation" and such. Stuff I like: Both shots are "leading into" the picture - in a overall sense, that's good. I tend to agree with Quade in what he said about the horizon cutting off parts - it draws the attention away from the subject....sometimes, however, it just can't be helped. They're also both well-focused - something that all DSLR's seem to trip up over from time to time, especially in low light. For just starting out, I think you've done good - I've certainly taken worse shots!!! (And still do, for that matter!!) Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #10 January 15, 2008 I noticed that you have some dust on your sensor..."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #11 January 15, 2008 Back lit shots aren't really that hard to pull off. Spot metering on the subject will help a lot (although I don't think the XT, XTi, or D20 have that option). When you have your camera in Auto Mode it "usually" calculates the exposure as an average. When you have the sun in the frame it causes the meter to under expose the image. Try to frame your subject without the sun in the background or push your exposure by a stop or two. I used Spot Metering on these shots.... Exit 1 Exit 2 Exit 3 Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 January 15, 2008 All the Canon's prior to the 30D only offer the partial metering, and its a 9 degree angle so its still a large spot that its measuring from. Spot metering is excellent for backlet but the partial weight metering can help for large objects that are centered in your shot. Canon uses the center point for the meter area so an off centered object that is backlit will still be underexposed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #13 January 15, 2008 Wow, thanks for the feedback, tips and links everyone! Especially the composition tips - until it was pointed out I hadn't noticed the horizon being broken by the jumper's feet/body. Attached are the two shots prior, which don't have that issue. I was going for the silhouette effect, thought it turned out well. Comments? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BGill 0 #14 January 15, 2008 Quote Wow, thanks for the feedback, tips and links everyone! Especially the composition tips - until it was pointed out I hadn't noticed the horizon being broken by the jumper's feet/body. Attached are the two shots prior, which don't have that issue. I was going for the silhouette effect, thought it turned out well. Comments? The first one would be nice in B&W since there isn't much color to it. The lens flair in the second one is a problem. I like them both, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PharmerPhil 0 #15 January 15, 2008 I really like the first one. I do think you could lose ten percent to the left and to the top of the image (either crop it out, or aim the camera a little right and down). Leave just enough of those clouds to see the swirls in them. And get rid of those dust specs on the sensor. If I was being real picky (aren't I?), a little more saturation might bring out that sky and strip of grass better, but still leave the jumper in silhouette. Nice shot though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #16 January 15, 2008 Another thing that you can consider is, don't stand and take pictures. Kneel or stand on something. We all walk around all the time and see life from eye level. You can make the pictures stand out a bit by getting away from eye level.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #17 January 16, 2008 QuoteAll the Canon's prior to the 30D only offer the partial metering, and its a 9 degree angle so its still a large spot that its measuring from. Spot metering is excellent for backlet but the partial weight metering can help for large objects that are centered in your shot. Canon uses the center point for the meter area so an off centered object that is backlit will still be underexposed. That's one of the things I love about my D200 - when you select Spot Metering, it meters on the selected focus sensor, so you can effectively Spot Meter anywhere in the frame without recomposing your shot. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #18 January 16, 2008 I guess the newer and more prosumer Canons like the 30D,40D and 5D all spotmeter the same way. Now that I'm getting better at shooting photos I'm seeing where that would be really nice for action photos and better metering for other shots as well. But there is the price and weight trade off to get those features.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 January 16, 2008 re: off-center metering: Only the pro bodies have that at the moment (unfortunately). Locking the exposure (AE lock) and recomposing still works just fine. For that matter, so does using manual exposure mode and setting your camera for the light falling on the scene.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
