Flying Wings-- Techniques

[quade 3]

Actually, all three of the Perris Twin Otters are set up a bit differently than one another.

The step on the Shark is about at the level of the door. The step on Gypsy is a bit lower. The step on Papa Victor (aka The Super) is significantly lower and a bit farther toward the tail.

The post handles on both Shark and Gypsy are in almost the exact same spot.

The post handles on PV are considerably different. One is fairly close to the door and the other is farther back and higher than the ones on Shark and Gypsy. The total effect on PV is that it's quite a stretch from the rear post to the camera step, climb outs are a pain in the butt and really short camera flyers have a lot of difficulty with it.

I think it's important to know which plane you're on so you can mentally prepare just for the climb out! If you look at the jump run lights, I've placed reminders nearby.

What I like about the Perris Otters is that the parts for the sliding doors are all flush against the door frame. On some other drop zone's aircraft they stick out about a quarter of an inch and have a tendancy to give you bruises as you climb out if you hug the door frame.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[curtismelaniej 0]

Hey Lew-- thanks for the tips and offer to help-- don't be suprised if I call you in on that when I start getting more camera jumps under my belt actually shooting stuff. As for the camera steps at Perris, well, since this past weekend was the first time I'd EVER been out on any camera step, well, there's your answer. It was weird, 8 years and never once out on the camera step-- it was very fun to try, and always cool to be hanging off the outside of a moving airplane at 13,000 feet. Anyway, I would love to fly without wings if I still could have the range I needed to get the shot I wanted. I never like the idea of restricting my limbs in any way (even though it was fine pulling and getting to my risers). Given 4-way is one of my goals, and it seems that to shoot 4-way with the varying formation speeds, that eventually I would need to learn how to fly wings-- so I guess that's the goal at the moment-- to learn to fly the suit some, then apply some of the basics that I pick up to actually flying with a formation. Since I have the luxury of slowly getting into it, I'm taking the time to be anal and cautious instead of doing the sink-or-swim approach. I guess I want to do everything I can to NOT fall through anyone's burble, but as every camera flyer has told me, it WILL happen, which is why, the next time I get the chance, I'm just going to jump on the load, and give it a real go. Sweet! Yes, I'm psyched-- this is cool-- I LOVE learning new things! I'm a geek, and all about it. Ok, that was a major tangent-- just rambling here a bit peeps!

__________________________________________________________
http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html

[Damion 0]

just wondering what is the difference between the sizes? aside from the larger ones slowing you down more.

[ltdiver 3]

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just wondering what is the difference between the sizes? aside from the larger ones slowing you down more.

For one, larger wings give you a greater ability during leading exits. You can use the wings there to keep a greater distance from your team (read: long exits like "M"). Larger wings also give you a faster recovery after you 'blow' a 4-way exit and leave too early. Punch your arms -down- and your wings allow you to provide 'lift' without blowing you back (prop blast and on the hill) any further away from your team (like with hands up by your ears, let's say).

During the skydive, larger wings give you a better ability to be DEEPER in the team's burble without crashing into them...and -also- give you the ability to find your own air if (and when) you find yourself having your air stolen by those below you.

Larger wings also give you a faster speed change. You can go from FAST to SLOW in a blink of an eye. Say when your team funnels the exit and you give chase.... then surprisingly pulls it back together and instantly slows down!

Oh sure, I use medium size wings....but I also wear 12 lbs of lead as well. I've had to compromise. Larger wings would be nicer (more flexibility when you 'goof'), but at my lighter exit weight (180) and tall height (5'10"), they wouldn't work too well for me. I'd be able to use them well on exit, but then would have to keep them deflated during the rest of the skydive.


ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[lewmonst 0]

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Oh sure, I use medium size wings....but I also wear 12 lbs of lead as well. I've had to compromise. Larger wings would be nicer (more flexibility when you 'goof'), but at my lighter exit weight (180) and tall height (5'10"), they wouldn't work too well for me. I'd be able to use them well on exit, but then would have to keep them deflated during the rest of the skydive.

just a dozen or so jumps later, for tandem videos, I am now at the point where I prefer to wear the wings with weights for a normal to large size tandem. I feel like I have a better range and I can sink lower on the tandem and look up at a steeper angle, so most of the passenger body and face fill the frame. Like Lori, I'm tall and light, exit weight 190 (without weights of course) and 5'13". I'm liking the medium size wings right now and wore about 10 lbs of lead with the wings on several jumps today. I've also jumped with tandems who have a combined body weight of 260 under a large drogue, and I've borrowed even bigger wings for that, just in case, no weight of course.

now if i can only learn koji tricks...

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[lewmonst 0]

Quote

Actually, all three of the Perris Twin Otters are set up a bit differently than one another.

The step on the Shark is about at the level of the door. The step on Gypsy is a bit lower. The step on Papa Victor (aka The Super) is significantly lower and a bit farther toward the tail.

The post handles on both Shark and Gypsy are in almost the exact same spot.

The post handles on PV are considerably different.

ah... my bad. I stand corrected. I haven't jumped Papa Victor yet so that explains some of it. Where is PV btw? And I guess I just haven't noticed the difference in steps on GR and SA as post handles feel the same.

quade knows more and has more experience than I do, so he's better to learn from anyway.

thanks quade!

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[quade 3]

PV goes off for a vacation (ok really a lease) every summer.

It'll be back for Nationals.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[curtismelaniej 0]

Ok peeps-- so last Sunday I actually got to shoot video and I'll tell you it was some of the most FUN I've had in a while-- it was completely new to me, and I LOVE learning new things! I don't care how dorky that sounds, it's true. Elsinore Fuse was in need so I stepped up and took the opportunity-- of course giving them the sorry-in-advance-if-I-hit-you-suck-or-just-generally-f*ck-up disclaimer. So in the AM I climbed all over the plane on the ground to see the footing, handles, etc-- and realized that the handle isn't as far back as I thought-- with my height I can definitely reach. So the first jump I was suprised a little bit by the wind, and didn't end up taking my left foot out of the door, or my left hand off the door frame. I was clearly afraid of falling off on my first ever video attempt-- uhhh, didn't want that happening. My exit ended up being pretty good in fact, but I was VERY close to the team off the plane, the grips were like the only thing in the frame I was that close-- how I didn't take them out, I'm not sure. I told Pat on the ground what had happened, and he said that I'm just gonna have to get over that-- so on the next jump I stopped being a wimp and got all the way out there. Just f*cking do it mentality works well for me. Now, as for actually flying-- I was suprised also at how quickly blocks sink out on you-- being IN the 4-way most of the time I didn't realize that happened so drastically. Also, as for the actual wing flying-- I'm so used to having my hands in front of me, that I kept getting my hands in the frame of the video. I finally figured out by the end of the day to start flying with my hands out to my sides, slightly out in front of my shoulders-- then use/collapse the wings by tucking my elbows to my sides, not my hands to my front. Make sense? Oh, and another thing-- on exit, I'm back there, reading the count-- going on GO-- on one jump I jumped out to my left off the plane and that was the jump I clipped Morgan's a** and ended up low on the hill-- damn it!! From that I realized that I need to drop right off, straight down, almost slithering down the fuselage, letting my body go underneath the plane, so that I'm juuuust to the right side of the formation as it cruises out the door and down the hill. Sorry for the novel, but this is what I got from my first 7 jumps, so clearly I'm no pro-- just sharing what I thought. If anyone has anything to add, contradict, whatever, go for it!

__________________________________________________________
http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html

[chachi 0]

nice job- you definately have the idea for the actual exit. Brian Roger's taught me to feel think about feeling the rivets of the plane with my right hand sliding all of the way down into your little slice of air. Good to see more girls out there shooting camera, especially ones that jump such nice canopies.

~Chachi

[curtismelaniej 0]

I'll be jumping my/your 120 this weekend too-- my second rig is complete and my 4-way team is doing back-to-backs-- SWEET!

__________________________________________________________
http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html

[quade 3]

Yeah, it's a totally different animal just a few feet away isn't it? They move up, down and sideways and they -think- they're falling straight down.

What formations did ya get to exit?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[curtismelaniej 0]

E, B, 19, Q, F-- and one more I'm forgetting... oh yeah, 11
I think Lou kept them relatively short and fat for me... no G's, M's, 8's, C's, etc.

__________________________________________________________
http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html

[riggerrob 558]

Thanks for sharing.

[Rdutch 0]

Hey Quade quick question, what are you doing on 12's? Not the exit during the skydive. Were still working on the perfect scenerio and Im wondering if your having any luck over there.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[quade 3]

Zipper/Star . . . ugh . . . I'm sure you know the issues so ovbiously we don't have to go over them. (Anyone else, pick up a copy of the December 2003 issue of Skydiving Magazine and turn to the John Hoover article on page 14.

Basically, if 12 is in the dive I try to make sure I'm on the "low" side of the formation at the start of the block -- the side of the formation that will go under during the block move.

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you've discovered, this also means you have to pay attention to what's going on and maybe have to shift your position & heading as opposed to how we normally shoot -- on-heading with as little apparent movement as possible.

The other solution is to fly extremely steep but that's also quite a bit of work if the 12 has a tendancy to walk around the sky.

If I had my way, certain formations would be changed or removed from the dive pool because they create too much controversy or just have too many inherent problems. This is one of them. I really don't see why the judges have got such a bug up their butts about this one. Intention of the move seems to be fine for a lot of blocks, but for some silly reason not this one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

E, B, 19, Q, F-- and one more I'm forgetting... oh yeah, 11
I think Lou kept them relatively short and fat for me... no G's, M's, 8's, C's, etc.

Good for you, Mel!

Just remember that you're really not a 'real' cameraflyer until you've hit a team at least twice! Have fun with the long skinny exits!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[chopchop 0]

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Just remember that you're really not a 'real' cameraflyer until you've hit a team at least twice!

Yippee!! I'm half way to being a 'real' cameraflyer!!

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[quade 3]

And since I posted this . . . we've changed our minds . . .

Now, we're starting on the high side . . . the side that will go over during the block move but off angle and in direct opposition to the solution posted in the December 2003 article in Skydiving Magazine by John Hoover!

Yeah, this one -is- confusing.

I'll see if I can get a better description from B.C., but I checked it out with Pat McGowan and John Lemming . . . I think I'll also run it by June Bug if she's at the DZ tomorrow.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

And since I posted this . . . we've changed our minds . . .

Now, we're starting on the high side . . . the side that will go over during the block move but off angle and in direct opposition to the solution posted in the December 2003 article in Skydiving Magazine by John Hoover!

Yeah, this one -is- confusing.

I'll see if I can get a better description from B.C., but I checked it out with Pat McGowan and John Lemming . . . I think I'll also run it by June Bug if she's at the DZ tomorrow.

Wondered when you'd see the 'light'. When I re-read Hoover's article, I just had to scratch my head and wonder. B.C. and my team does it different than the article. Just like you describe here in your 2nd post on the subject.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon