curtismelaniej 0 #1 July 8, 2004 Hi all-- I am looking for some tips on flying wings-- meaning the basic physical techniques that you use to fly them. If it's too difficult to explain, does anyone have any good pictures out there that show camera flyers in action shooting formation skydivers from above? That's where I'm going to start, and eventually aspire to shoot 4-way (only when I'm not IN the 4-way of course!), and everything else as I learn and get better. Basically, I've been thinking about it, wanting to visualize exits, riding the burble, etc. but I don't really know what to do with my arms, upper body, legs-- whatever. Likely it's something I need to get out there and just DO, but thought I'd ask anyway. If there are already threads on this subject, please point me to them-- I did a search, with little success. Anyway, thanks in advance! Blues, Mel PS. I have a wing suit with medium/small wings, with thumb loops-- the wings are fully attached to the suit, no clips or anything like that. __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 July 8, 2004 Holy crap! When did this happen? I'm -certain- you'd make an excellent camera flyer, but you're so freekin' talented as a point turner I just never gave it a thought. Camera flyers and their wings is a very personal subject. Everyone seems to have different thoughts on how they should interact. Lemming's style is very different than Stein's and very different than my own. I think body type and perceived required range plays into this quite a bit.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #3 July 8, 2004 Haahahah-- thanks for the compliments, Quade! Don't worry, I'm not giving up 4-way, just wanting to add to my skill base. I've been wanting to do video for a while now, and slowly but surely I've been putting together my gear, and airtime-- and now it's time to get jumping. I thought I could practice during the Excel skills camps I run, give the newbies that much more stuff to learn from, as well as learning a new skill myself. Win-win. Plus, starting with a 2-way might be easier than just trying to nail a Canadian Tee exit my first go! haahah Yeah, I'm excited--- if I get no response to my thread, I'll post how I did and what I thought next week. Thanks! Mel __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #4 July 8, 2004 Might be able to gleen some info here: http://www.omniskore.com/video_tips.htm Scott C. Dont get too close and fall through the formation, people dont really like it that much...."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #5 July 8, 2004 Great, thanks! Gleening away.... __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 July 8, 2004 Quote Plus, starting with a 2-way might be easier than just trying to nail a Canadian Tee exit my first go! See, you already have a huge advantage over almost every beginning camera flyer in that you already know what a Can-Tee is! BTW, a bit of it has to do with the way the team (especially the tail) launches and the Can-Tee isn't even one of the most difficult exits (for the camera flyer). 2-ways are a great place to start as there's usually a LOT less pressure and you usually have your own clean air at exit. I assume you've already read all of my crap.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #7 July 8, 2004 8 was Szky's least favorite exit-- note: round ONE at Nationals last year and he nailed it, totally awesome-- I would guess that a bundy or 16 would be tough, catching all that air and coming straight at you.... hmmm, time, experience, and hopefully few collisions will tell! __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #8 July 8, 2004 I am by no means an expert. However, i was struggling with the bottom end of my range and asked a very experienced camera flyer to go along with us and tell me what i was doing wrong. When we got on the ground, he showed me what i was doing and what i needed to do to slow down a little more. Best thing i ever did. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #9 July 9, 2004 Hey Mel. Nice to know you're putting that new camera set-up I saw at the SSL to work. :^) Have you chatted with Pat about his techniques? (cameraflying that is). Having a personal cameraflying mentor at your DZ is worth it's weight in gold (er, film). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #10 July 9, 2004 I couldn't agree more-- I've been picking Jonathan's brain a lot, and will Pat's more this weekend. Then I'm just going to get up there and go for it-- typically, the less I think, the better I do, but then again, with something like this I feel like I need at least some instruction to start off on the right foot, instead of flailing for 50+ jumps, then asking questions! I will let you know how it goes! __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #11 July 9, 2004 Oh, and yes, I have read all your "crap" __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weazel 0 #12 July 12, 2004 My advice is to get a wing suit and jump it. I have over 1000 camera jumps and I rarely feel like I am using my wings during the jump. After seeing myself from a second camera person's video, it usually surprises me how much I am utilizing my wings. Just like everything else in this sport, it is a touchy- feely thing that you will have to do and develop your own technique. It seems that you have enough jumps to be able to get into it pretty quickly. Try it out and the wings will end up being a natural extension of yourself as you jump more with them. Good luck and stay steep over the 4 way WEAZEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airgord 1 #13 July 13, 2004 stay away from the burble for awhile, i'll only fly in it if i know the team.......well. have fun. gl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #14 July 13, 2004 Quotestay away from the burble for awhile, i'll only fly in it if i know the team.......well. have fun. gl ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DLB 0 #15 July 13, 2004 Hey Mel - Hope you enjoy your filming. I loved it filming your 2-ways skills camp over easter when the BCPA crowd were at elsinore. You even made the DVD I sent to Pat. Not got my wings yet - still jumping without but they're the next purchase after the British Nationals and our 4-way are done. Team Escondido wre missing a member so I'm now turning their points rather than filming them! Hope to see you next easter. David ----------------------------------------------- "It's always a nice day above the clouds" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #16 July 13, 2004 Hey all-- so I jumped the wing suit and actually just did it filming a couple of solo flyers-- on both jumps, I found that I was falling so slowly that not only was I arching like crazy, but I had my wings tucked in pretty much all the way-- or so it felt. I'm assuming that they were still catching air somehow because I wasn't jumping with radically fast fallers by any stretch, so it makes sense that they were still slowing me down somehow. The suit itself doesn't have booties, and is tight on me too. Hmm. What I found most challenging of the jumps was getting out on the stinkin' camera step!! The first one was easy because I was on the Otter with two handles-- the other one, there was no way in hell I was getting out there-- my reach was like a foot too short, no kidding. My plan now is to chat up the other short videographers out there to see how they swing it. Otherwise, I didn't get much airtime on the suit because of other commitments (typical!), so I think that going forward I'm just going to jump on anything I have time for at the end of days-- then after Nationals I'm just going to organize some 4-way with me shooting free video-- of course apologizing in advance for sucking. __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #17 July 14, 2004 Quotefilming a couple of solo flyers I thought that wings were primarly for filming formations, -> they slow down when they build...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #18 July 14, 2004 Quote I thought that wings were primarly for filming formations, -> they slow down when they build... Camera flyer wings allow you to have a wider range of speeds, but more importantly, a much quicker rate of change. It's not just about going slow, it's also about being able to go from 150 to 100 and make that change as quickly as possible. Funneled formations can build up speed -amazingly- fast. How you're able to deal with them when they blow apart or magically start flying again is pretty important. Wings also help (sometimes) when you get just a little too far into the burble above a formation. In order to correctly video a 4-way group you need to be pretty damn steep over the top of it. Without wings (and sometimes even with wings) the burble can suck you right down on top of the formation and right on through. The wings -may- help you prevent that 99% of the time . . . sometimes though . . . even right in the middle of a perfectly good skydive . . . you wish you had bigger wings. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #19 July 14, 2004 Quoteso I think that going forward I'm just going to jump on anything I have time for at the end of days Oh really? Now back to skydiving....... I also hate the Blue Otter. Found the only way I can transition out -that- door is to back out, reach for the step....then the handle. Holding onto the back edge of the door (instead of the bar) will also help you reach farther back. Practice on the ground and see what works best for you....then go up and give it a try! Just remember that when you're practicing on the ground DON'T LAUNCH! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kwoo 0 #20 July 14, 2004 Otter handles and step sizes can be very different from plane to plane but depending on the type of otter the step placement can be quite different. I'm a short video person and I have found that ltdiver's backout, step, then reach or in my case jump for the handle is required on many otters. I have had some 4way team,s Point or OC climb out before or with me to break the wind a little but I am now doing video for a very small all women's 4 way team and on many exits I feel like I'm out there all by myself! keep practicing and remember to check the placement of all handles and steps before you climb in the plane so you won't have any surprises on climbout. karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #21 July 14, 2004 Yeah, I'm with you and Quade on the reasons for wings at all-- I just wanted to jump the thing and feel what the wings actually felt like before trying to actually use them to NOT fall on top of a group-- I did practice inflating them (dramatically slower of course), just had to work getting back down to the person after that. They were good ZERO pressure jumps for me to get a feel for the suit and wings and give a couple of new jumpers a chance to see what they look like in freefall. Like I said, I think to really get started, I'm just going to have to start jumping on whatever formation skydive is available when I have time-- then after Nationals, I'll really get to work. __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #22 July 14, 2004 Love it. As for the blue otter-- thanks for the tips, trying it on the ground is definitely something I'm going to try make happen. I hate being short! __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 July 14, 2004 QuotePoint or OC climb out before or with me to break the wind a little On my team it's the tail who breaks wind for me regularly. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysurfcam 0 #24 July 14, 2004 Quotetrying it on the ground is definitely something I'm going to try make happen. A major rule of camerafly is "Know your strong exit stance". For the Spain world meet, that meant finding a way past an angry foot troop with a submachinegun... But when the meet starts tommorow, and you haven't touched the comp otter yet, there's always a way. Exit practice for a camerathing is as needed as a dirtdive. Be it wings or bag, you need to find a way to grease your way along the hull, while you deal with being 4-12 inches taller than gawd made you, wearing more fabric than a Deb at a fitting, until you can plant your feet on (usually) tiny bits of (often)slippery real estate that you may have to share, whilst holding handles that are also cold, slippery, definitely out of sight, and seemingly out of reach... If you don't know your way out, you're at least goingta look stoopid, then you'll start screwing someones spot, then you could get real dangerous after that... You would never get on board for a serious rel dive unless you knew how to get to a strong stance for exit. The same rule applies times two or three for camera, 'cos you're probably first out, and closest to the tail. It's a whole new way to find reasons to buy beer... Be safe, have fun, C. QuoteI hate being short! Tried it for 16 years. I agree. 16 and 4'9" sucked. 6'2" at 18 was m u c h better (if a little painful on the way!). Sadly, I discovered later that I'd need weights for rel. Approaching 40, the need for that vest is rapidly diminishing... Life's a compromise Brother Wayward's rule of the day... "Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards." 100% PURE ADRENALENS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #25 July 14, 2004 Hey Mel, I still prefer jumping without wings. I will wear wings to shoot belly formations or very light students. I just need more practice with them. You might find you'll want to wear wings with weights. Fortunately I have long arms and don't have trouble reaching the handle on the otter, but the blue on is definately a stretch. Don't be afraid to try using the side of the door as a grip instead of the bar. It will allow you to reach significantly further and is easier to hold on to than you might think. Have you ever gone camera-step in Perris? The handle is different than those on the otters in elsinore, instead of a handle, there is just a stub of a bar sticking straight up, and only one. It's a bit of a stretch to get to also. But at least it's the same on both the shark and gypsy rose. Next time you're in Perris I'll show you anything I can to help. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
