quade 3 #1 April 5, 2002 With absolutely no apologies to Jeff Foxworthy.If your width to height ratio is 4:3, you might be a frame grab.If your width to height ratio is 16:9, you might be a tricky frame grab.If your width to height ratio is sort of close to either 4:3 or 16:9 and your circles aren't perfectly circular, you might be a crappy frame grab.If a bright highlight gives you a vertical streak, you might want to check into the possibility that you might be a frame grab.If your contrast ratio is a close approximation to that of a 1980s Xerox machine, you might be a frame grab.If your colors look like a kid couldn't stay inside the lines of his coloring book, there's a distinct possibility that, you might be a frame grab.If your pixels aren't pixie sized but instead are jumbo sized, you might be a frame grab.If you have giant blocks floating in your sky, you might want to check into joining a club for frame grabs.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 April 8, 2002 Paul,that is some funny shit! Were you poking fun directly at Adam Rosen? BWAHAHA!My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #3 April 9, 2002 QuoteWere you poking fun directly at Adam Rosen?D'oh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 April 9, 2002 I was poking fun at anybody that submitted frame grabs as photos into the photography contest.Hell, if I had a 35mm film camera that could shoot 29.97 frames per second for about 2 minutes, I could get some pretty cool shots!Unfortunately, submitting a frame grab off of video just ain't gonna fly.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #5 April 9, 2002 QuoteHell, if I had a 35mm film camera that could shoot 29.97 frames per second for about 2 minutes, I could get some pretty cool shots!is there a camera out there where this is possible...as in like some type of film/movie camera???Cheers....vasbytmarc"I have no fear of falling, I just hate hitting the ground"-The Badlees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 April 9, 2002 In theory, yes. In practicality, no.A movie film camera known as an N-19 "gun" camera would in theory work, if you could afford one that had been modified for skydiving use, but at that point you might as well be shooting for film.I believe that Gianni Biasetti paid something around $20k for his, but I might have that number way off. Anyway, the film processing is also quite expensive, so, it's just not practicle.In the foreseeable future -- maybe less than five years down the road -- we should start to see HDTV camera for consumers. Those, shooting in 24p ought to be almost useable for 8x10s.Yes, I plan on being the first on my block with that wave. ;^)quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #7 April 9, 2002 Maybe you are right...maybe it's totally easy to get a pic if you use a video grab. However, I was going to send in some pics (one pic, one capture) and when i read the rules.....it just says photo. It doesn't say anyhting about what format the picture was captured in (35mm, MDV, or otherwise). I think it's kinda shitty to see judges saying that some pepole who sent things in won't be considered for sending in captures.....when thats not against the rules or even advised against. If the grabs look like shit (blurry lines, bad streaks, and some of the other things you noted) by all means don't vote for them. but don't vote for them becuse they are crappy pics, not because they are grabs. To me the best picture should win, regardless of how it was taken.LaFreak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #8 April 9, 2002 QuoteI think it's kinda shitty to see judges saying that some pepole who sent things in won't be considered for sending in captures.....when thats not against the rules or even advised against.No, I agree with quade. It's not shitty at allFrame grabs just look like crap (compared to a normal photo) The definition isn't there, the quality of the image, the color saturation... just.. everything. And you want a good picture, which mean the subject has to be interesting/fun to look at and the image quality needs to be good. Have a good quality photo of nothing or a crappy photo of something... just not gonna workSecondly, frame grabs really take no talent, and I think that's really what they're trying to reward. It's all about getting 'that shot' - I think that's really what quade wanted to say, but was afraid to "Wait! You didn't get that on tape did you!?" Goat #1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 April 9, 2002 "Hell, if I had a 35mm film camera that could shoot 29.97 frames per second for about 2 minutes, I could get some pretty cool shots!"Your cool shots would be incompatible with us Eurotrash, our frame grabs come at 25fps....Besides, to get a decent frame grab, the image has to be deinterlaced, either in camera, or in some software, in my mind thats digital processing and shouldn't be allowed.CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #10 April 9, 2002 ---in my mind that’s digital processing and shouldn't be allowed.What about digital still cameras? And at some point, unless you do your own developing, most pictures are processed (color correction mostly) by a computer, and you almost always have to make some corrections when you scan a photo...Having said that, I agree grabs don't seem to meet the intent of the contest... anyone that shoots reasonable video can find that one frame that is good... catching that "moment in time" on film (traditional or digital) is more of a challenge... Maybe we give the people that submitted grabs the opportunity to resubmit non-grabs?Joshbtw, thanks for the shots this weekend, should have them up on the webpage later this week.http://www.aerialfusion.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #11 April 9, 2002 Now, at this point, this shit is getting funny to me.<>Ok, talking about quality and definitino..... If I scanned in a 9 meg bitmap of a great quality print, and sent it in to the contest....the boards software compresses it down to all of around 35K. Think I'm losing a little quality and res?<>I love this double standard. No digital processing should be allowed. So the guy with the 4 megapixl still cam can't send anything in to the contest, but his photo might make the cover of Sports Il. or the New York Times. And digital processing is bad...but using color print film is fine! Over or under expose your film by 2 stops, and most of the time they will come back looking the same from most labs because they PROCESS them and adjust the color, hue, contrast, and exposure.For all of you guys who want to make up rules that were never in the contest, here is what you need to do for your next one:35mm slide film only, and the slides themselves have to be mailed in. That way there is the least chance for any horrible processing, and takes the most skill. Also, make the folks who enter sign something that says they took the picture with an SLR on manual exposure (not fair to have the camera figure out the exposure!!!! ). But if u did that.... you wouldn't have anything to bitch about, and more prizes than people who enter.I still find it funny that all of the things people are bitching about are not in the rules.Freak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #12 April 9, 2002 Point taken Josh (edit>>and LeFreak who posted whilst I was composing<<), but when you deinterlace an image you actually put in image elements that weren't originally in it (either by interpolation or duplication), this is the point I was trying to make.....Colour correction, scanning adjustment etc are all acceptable, and should be encouraged, even the old way with silver halide and cellulose had colour and contrast correction inherent in the processing. In fact most stunning B/W snaps I've seen have had contrast enhancement to emphasise things, Ansell Adams' excellent images from Yosemite for example. As for burning and dodging in colour processing, the same thing stands. In the old days, processing enhancement was considered part of the photographers art, and a demonstration of their skills.But then again, its supposed to be a fun comp, so why are we being all anal about this?Snaps of your swooping antics? Any time bro CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #13 April 9, 2002 Quote. . . and when i read the rules.....it just says photo.Yep. The last time I checked a photograph involved the use of light interacting with chemicals on a piece of film.BTW, I'm NOT a judge in any of this.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #14 April 9, 2002 QuoteSecondly, frame grabs really take no talent, and I think that's really what they're trying to reward. It's all about getting 'that shot' - I think that's really what quade wanted to say, but was afraid to.What? Was I being too subtle?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #15 April 9, 2002 Paul... I think the real difference is are you a freefall videographer or a freefall photographer that also does video? The photographs can be from a click and toss camera...(They work...)"Hey.. Its my camera, and my remote... I'll rewind if I want to!" ~ Goat #2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #16 April 9, 2002 Geeze. I always thought of myself as a freefall videographer that occasionally shoots stills.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #17 April 9, 2002 Didn't say you were a judge, but if you remember:<<<<>I agree.... and I'm a judge! Safe swoopsSangiro >>this really is getting funny. if by <> you mean to say that DV, Hi-8, Beta,(or any media other than print/slide film) etc. are not considered "film" then maybe we should start calling you Dino instead of Quade.By your definition, the things I see in the news papers, magazines, family portriats, and all over the internet with all the pretty colors and images of pepole....are not photographes. Thus most studios today just have "Picturetakers, or Pictogrphers" and not photographers. There are infact ways to take, print, copy, reproduce, enhance and enlarge "photographs" that don't involve 35mm (med format, large format or any format for that matter) film.I love 35mm photography, but I also understand and admit that there are new ways to take pictures that don't involve film. Again, I wouldn't be against a contest that was 35mm only (slide film for that matter), but don't whine and moan when people are following the rules set out in the contest.LeFreak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #18 April 9, 2002 I'm not too worried about the frame grabbers... most of the frame grab pics are obvious, and based on comments in this thread by one of the judges, it seems they will be looking at that while judging. While it may not be against the rules, it seems those entries will be at a disadvantage.Joshhttp://www.aerialfusion.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 April 9, 2002 I'm not worried about them.I that's really just not what the contest ever intended. Sangrio, the owner of this web site and one of the judges, is in complete agreement.What I find facinating is that some people are whining about how they ought to be allowed. Since that was never the intention of the contest, I just don't see how that's going to happen.What I think we have here is a failure to communicate.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #20 April 9, 2002 I think we are generally on the same side of the issue...In no way am I saying that they ought to be allowed, just that the rules don't say one way or the other... my guess is, based on Sangrio's comments, that the judges won't consider them for the prize contention. Perhaps knowing that from the outset some folks may have chosen their submissions differently. Ultimately the issue rests with the judges and how they feel about it.Note: I have not submitted any frame grabs.Joshhttp://www.aerialfusion.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #21 April 10, 2002 QuoteOk, talking about quality and definitino..... If I scanned in a 9 meg bitmap of a great quality print, and sent it in to the contest....the boards software compresses it down to all of around 35K. Think I'm losing a little quality and res?Yes, but you do the same thing with a frame grab too. And when you lose quality from something that wasn't already high quality, it looks even worse. File size does not equal quality. You can argue it all you want, but it's pretty easy to look at a still picture (from 35mm film, high quality dig camera, whatever) and compare it to a frame grabbed from video and determine which is which - even after they've both been compress/reduced in size.And there is no 'rule' and no one is making up rules as they go along. You can send in frame grabs, they just probably won't win because of the reasons stated above.Yes quade, too subtle... "Wait! You didn't get that on tape did you!?" Goat #1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #22 April 10, 2002 QuoteYes quade, too subtle... That's the fine line I have to walk being a moderator.Some people pick up on subtle hints very well, others don't understand you if you hit them over the head with a baseball bat. Some people react to a subtle hints as if they were baseball bats. So, it's a fine line. The line gets even thinner when opinion is involved.This thread is pretty much opinion.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #23 April 11, 2002 QuoteWhat I find facinating is that some people are whining about how they ought to be allowed. Since that was never the intention of the contest, I just don't see how that's going to happen.That sums it up perfectly.I have learned something though.... Next time there will be more spoon feeding of what it's about for those who enjoy spending their time nitpicking.Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #24 April 11, 2002 Josh - point taken. If anyone wants to change a submission because they entered a frame grab they are welcome to send me an email.....Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
