4 Way Video: Getting Started

[Widgeon 0]

I would really like to start to learn how to shoot 4 way video. Any suggestions?

[marks 0]

yup, compete on a 4 way team for a season first.

[Widgeon 0]

No thanks. I'm more interested in learning to shoot the videos first. I've been told it's excellent experience for tandem video.

[marks 0]

well, i have done both. you asked for advice and i gave it.

remember your the one not taking the advice.

you will have a hard time figuring out everything without the knowledge of what your shooting..

if your not willing to compete in it then you need to learn what the judges look for and all the blocks and randoms. you will have to know what they are launching, and many many more things.

get with someone who is a 4 way competitor and ask them.
the better the team, the more you need to know.

the worse the team, the more they move around.

[marks 0]

hahaha,

tandam vid's are good experiance for 4 way vids.

but not anything like it.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

yup, compete on a 4 way team for a season first.

Yup, you are correct. I did this and it made a world of difference when I finally strapped a camera on my head. Good advice.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[rehmwa 2]

Go to Quades website, he has some really good articles posted on it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skydance1954 0]

I have to agree with Marks, jump with a team first before you start doing video, even if it's just for fun for one month of weekends.

I've been a 4-way and 8-way competitor, and both tandem and 4-way videographer. Performing video on a 4-way can help doing tandems a lot, but the flying techniques are completely different. On 4-way, you're above the formation, and it moves in random directions in three dimensions, depending on how well the team flies and the formations they are executing. On tandems, the subject generally does not move much, and you're filming either on level, or slightly below.

4-way videographers don't just show up at the plane take the video and leave. Depending on the team, your tasks are going to be many. You're part of the team and you have a direct result in how they are scored. They do the points, and you make sure the judges can see them.

Technically, you have to be able to exit with the team, and each team is just a little different in how they execute an exit.

You have to have an intimate knowledge of the dive pool, and how the various blocks and formations fly. Each one has its own flying charactaristics, and you must anticipate the formations just the same way the team does so that you're not always in reaction mode. You have to fly WITH the team. On this same thread, you have to know how the team flies the formations out the door, and how to get the shots on each of these exits. Again, this requires a working knowledge of the pool, and the team itself. When they do the teamspeak thing, you've got to understand what they are talking about.

Attend the dirt dives, know what they are going to do on this dive.

Keep all members of the team in frame as much as possible. What that means is if they are turning two pieces of an interim, and they get far apart, you've got to "go up" to keep both parts in frame, while you stare at a point mid-way between them, and when the parts come together, you drop back down to a close position as they take grips. Don't focus on one group while the other flies off of the frame.

Be on time, don't make the team wait for you.

The best videographers reduce the stress on the team. Take care of tickets and manifest, let the team focus on the dirt dives and debriefs. Do not comment on the dives unless asked. Especially if you have limited or no competitive 4-way experience. Be invisible. By that I mean you take care of your duties, and be at the plane when the team is boarding, without them having to check for you. Land and go directly to the debriefing area and have the video ready for them. You walk out, hand the remote to the team captain and pack. When they are done, retrieve your equipment and make ready for the next dive. Be professional. At the end of the season, make sure you have a "team tape" of all their skydives available for each team member. A general copy in your own archives is a good idea should any of the team members lose their tape or DVD.

Also, by invisible, I mean that the video has to be steady, in frame and centered, with the entire team taking up as much of the frame as possible. And on a constant heading. This way, the team has an accurate view of what is going on, and their focus is entirely on their performance. If the video is shaky, out of frame, you're orbiting, or too far away, then there are discussions on how to improve the video quality. These discussions are a distraction to the team, and then you're not invisible.

In the air - don't orbit. Pick a heading and stay there, preferably with the sun behind you. Stay close, almost in the burble. Stay high, don't ever get on level. Be advised that the best way to find the exact point that you need to be at is by falling on the team at least once. Most experienced teams know this, and they should cut you some slack. Just don't do it during a meet.

Don't use an overly wide angle lens. .42 is almost too much, unless you can get REALLY close, or you zoom in a bit. I personally find that .65 is ideal for 4-way, and I keep the .42 for tandems.

Monitor your battery life. Be fully charged when you arrive in the morning and be ready for the whole day. Don't use the battery for power during debriefs unless it's the end of the day.

Finally, if the team asks you to take on additional duties to help them along - try to be as accomodating as possible. They are paying you for a service, and it's just not the flying part.

And be aware that you won't be sitting still. Your flying will be challenged even on a good team. Also, have a game plan with the team for exits, and for breakoff. If one of the team has a cutaway, you'll be in the best position to go after either the freebag or the canopy. Don't ignore them and land at the target, help a buddy out and land with one or the other.

Sorry if this sounds a bit rambling, but I'm at work and multitasking. Comments and feedback are welcome.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[AMax 0]

Great post!

[skydance1954 0]

Thanks, dude.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[CrazyL 0]

Several teams this past year were interested in taking on a relatively 'new' cameraman on as a teammate to train. Especially if the cameraman was satisfied with just his slot being covered in sort of a trade for gaining the experience. However you go about it HAVE FUN!

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Several teams this past year were interested in taking on a relatively 'new' cameraman on as a teammate to train. Especially if the cameraman was satisfied with just his slot being covered in sort of a trade for gaining the experience. However you go about it HAVE FUN!

I'm hoping to do something like that this year... I'll even cover my slot just for the experience. I agree that the experience I got competing in 4-way last season should help a lot.

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[bob.dino 0]

I'll agree with all that. Our camera had previously competed in 4-way, was dedicated, always had footage available when we needed it, was always on time, and looked out for us. For example, if one of us was running late, he'd finish packing our rig so we'd have a chance to eat & rehydrate before getting back on the creeper.

Couldn't ask for better.

[Zoter 0]

I had some 4 way camera experience last year...
Firstly I have never competed at 4 way and I predominantly freefly......so before embarking I spent some time in the tunnel on my belly just 're' defining those skills again.

TBH I didnt understand what they were all talking about with the dive pool abbreviations but I did watch the dirtdives to see if the formations were 'long' or 'short' on exit and during the dive....I am a total beginner but really I just needed to see if the formation was going to slow down or speed up or move significantly during the next point so that I could act accordingly.

What did I learn in a season? well things that stuck out:
1) Help them out on the ground in whatever way they want....video dubs/manifest/ packing
2) Keep your mouth shut....unless you are the coach.
3) A personal rule of mine......If 'I' dont get judgeable video....pay your slot or contribute that money to the team kitty.
4) Always ALWAYS check your camera on the ride up to ensure its working and the settings are correct.
5) Take time and ensure your camera is 'sighted' correctly....you DONT need to have expensive and potentially dangerous ringsites to get good video if you are comfortable with where your camera is sighted and you use a sensible size lens (mine for 4 way is a 0.5)
6) For beginners Peel Exits are preferential to leading exits and jump for jump will give a beginner vidiot a much better chance at getting judgeable video.
7) YOU dont need to have camera wings.....I flew with a team where I was substantially heavier/bigger than the 4way flyers......I flew in a freefly suit and never had any real problems......FLY YOUR BODY.....if you have trouble with this at the start, its unlikely to get better just with cam wings.
8)Play on the edges of the burble during training .....keep it totally safe (ie a little higher and not quite as steep) during comps.
9) Look 'through' the formation whilst filming and keep a ground reference .......if you rotate/move with the formation as they are rotating/drifting you are not doing them any favours....if they have unwanted movement...they need to see it to correct it !
Often I had no idea how many points a 4 way got on a jump as I was focusing 'through them' whilst trying to ensure I kept them in frame
10) Visually Check them ALL pre jump, when they are boarding , on the way up and whatever you can see when climbing out.......their equipment problems dierctly affect your chances of surviving the jump ...
12) Its '5 way' not four way.....


Probably more but nothing comes to mind....

Oh yeah.....having freefly experience/ability DOES make you a better camera flyer.....dont subscribe to the whole 'you are a RW or Freefly jumper'....skills cross over.

[CrazyL 0]

Cover your slot too? That's awesome! Should be very easy to get on a team. That's the best situation for a team. 99% of teams that I know and have been around would much rather have a cameraman that has little or no experience that pays his/her own way rather than pay a seasoned veteran cameraflier.

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Cover your slot too? That's awesome! Should be very easy to get on a team. That's the best situation for a team. 99% of teams that I know and have been around would much rather have a cameraman that has little or no experience that pays his/her own way rather than pay a seasoned veteran cameraflier.

I'd imagine that really depends on what the team goals are... I know that last year my team's goal was to develop our RW skills but if the team has aspirations for nationals and such... then the skills of a professional camera flyer are very important to the success of the team.

I do know that we often had trouble getting/having a dedicated camera man and it would have been nice to have someone that was part of the team.

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[CrazyL 0]

Quote

the skills of a professional camera flyer are very important to the success of the team.

I do know that we often had trouble getting/having a dedicated camera man and it would have been nice to have someone that was part of the team.

Scott

Would like to have been able to help your team last year. A young/new team cameraman can also have a great 4 way cameraman such as me to help get them up to speed early in the year to make theirs and their teams skydives even more enjoyable. Would you and or others be interested.