bliston 0 #1 January 31, 2005 The IPC meeting is over, does anyone know when and where rule changes are posted? Does USPA always go along with IPC changes for US National competition? BenMass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elightle 8 #2 January 31, 2005 Hi, Ben. I would recommend emailing Kurt Gaebel. [email protected] Blues, - Ed - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 January 31, 2005 It wouldn't be long before it's posted on either Kurt's site or on the IPC site (likely whether someone writes Kurt or not): this is the one I have (nothing yet - maybe my link is outdated but it looks correct) http://www.fai.org/parachuting/documents/#2 www.skyleague.com ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #4 February 1, 2005 4way: - Block 5 Opal-Opal - direction arrows removed (pieces can rotate either way) - new Block 12 - Bundy-Bundy - Random M - Bundy out, replaced by Star - each correct and clearly presented formation is scored with one point - no busts for infringement (just 0 points) - no NJ situations any more (integrated into infringements) - omission is busted by 3 points - competitors get a right to request to rejudge their jump - only once during the competition - freeze frame on all three viewings is the same as on the first viewing - centerpoint defined and couple of other small changes I will try to post new rules and pools sometime this afternoon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #5 February 1, 2005 sorry folks - files are too big to upload to dz.com PM me if you want them desperately - or wait for Kurt to wake up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexJ 1 #6 February 1, 2005 Whew, more than I expected in terms of rules. Can't wait to find out the specifics! Seems the margins between teams will become smaller since there are no deductions for infringements! All the more reason to push it just that little bit faster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vibeke 0 #7 February 1, 2005 Wont this result in less clean skydives and end up creating new problems of its own? I liked the strict rules with penalties for violations. This invites very much to taking your chances on cheats - as getting caught is no longer a real problem._________________________________________________________ Your success and happiness, is in direct proportions to your commitment to excellence, regardless of your chosen field of endeavour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #8 February 1, 2005 Here are the new blocks and randoms for 4 and 8 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #9 February 1, 2005 Quoteno busts for infringement (just 0 points) - no NJ situations any more (integrated into infringements) - omission is busted by 3 points strange. Averages are going to skyrocket. I might have to revise my goals for the year! I think I liked it WITH busts, but I can withhold that opinion until I see some meet results. Valentine's meet should be interesting!Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bliston 0 #10 February 1, 2005 Don't know if averages will skyrocket. You still need to show separation between each point to get credit for the next, you HAVE TO try to build everything (or get a 3 point bust), and you miss out on a point for anything you don't build and show to the judges. Yes, people with push it a bit more because they only have one point rather than two to lose for a key that comes to fast, but I think top scores will still come to teams that make clean jumps. It clearly helps teams that bust a lot already, but I don't think the rule changes will "enable" teams that are already "breaking and building" together to go faster. Don't know... agreed that the Valentines Day meet will be telling.... BenMass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 February 1, 2005 I see a neat way to do "5" Edit...I don't like the busts going away. And the 3 point penlty for omitting...I see problems. A team could "try" and build it, but "bust" it and move on with only one point lost."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #12 February 2, 2005 QuoteI see a neat way to do "5" So do I. Is it allowed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #13 February 2, 2005 Stuff keying, go luck phuck after 45 seconds. Just don't forget anything! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #14 February 2, 2005 QuoteSo do I. Is it allowed? As long as the sub groups stay intact...yep."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 February 2, 2005 You guys aren't just talking the piece hop with no rotation are you? I don't see anything faster than that and it's analogous to 17, but I'm just a beginner here.... But that looks like the intent now - much different than before. The double hop cheat on 6 was bustable because the defined rotation wasn't shown. In this case, there is no rotation reguired on 5. It'll be fun like BlackHole-BiP but even faster - probably one of the fastest blocks in the pool now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 February 2, 2005 QuoteAnd the 3 point penlty for omitting...I see problems. A team could "try" and build it, but "bust" it and move on with only one point lost. That is funny - just kind of flinch at each point you don't want to do and only lose that point but no extra bust. I expect the judges will establish some criteria for how hard to push it - bet it's not that big a deal (but as I said, just a beginner here and I don't know how slimy people would be about breaking not only the rule, but the intent of the rule). It's obviously in there to keep teams from planning omissions into a dive. Is there any way in here that a team could lose three points in a block now? (one for each formation AND the inter?). I think they were trying to specifically avoid that in the words. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 February 2, 2005 QuoteThat is funny - just kind of flinch at each point you don't want to do and only lose that point but no extra bust. I expect the judges will establish some criteria for how hard to push it - bet it's not that big a deal (but as I said, just a beginner here and I don't know how slimy people would be about breaking not only the rule, but the intent of the rule). It's obviously in there to keep teams from planning omissions into a dive. Is there any way in here that a team could lose three points in a block now? (one for each formation AND the inter?). I think they were trying to specifically avoid that in the words. Thats the problem I see...what is the limit? I think removing the penalties is a bad idea. As for 5....I would look at the IC going over the grips of the Point and OC....Kinda like 17"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #18 February 2, 2005 QuoteYou guys aren't just talking the piece hop with no rotation are you? I don't see anything faster than that and it's analogous to 17, but I'm just a beginner here.... The double hop cheat on 6 was bustable because the defined rotation wasn't shown. In this case, there is no rotation reguired on 5. It'll be fun like BlackHole-BiP but even faster - probably one of the fastest blocks in the pool now. Until judges will bust it (sorry - zero it ) for centers-crossing (like they do now for Stradian-Stardian). And remember how several years ago blok 17 was busted left and right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #19 February 2, 2005 QuoteAverages are going to skyrocket Not really. Take top teams in Croatia and apply new rules: Majik would have 230 instead of 227 Maubeuge would be 224 intead of 219 Russians would be 213 instead of 211, Sinapsi - 212 intead of 210... It will definately make the competition tighter though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #20 February 2, 2005 QuoteUntil judges will bust it (sorry - zero it ) for centers-crossing (like they do now for Stradian-Stardian). And remember how several years ago blok 17 was busted left and right? See until we know how the judges are gonna score it its gonna be ugly. But the way I am thinking is nothing different than it is done now except who hops who."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 February 2, 2005 QuoteUntil judges will bust it (sorry - zero it ) for centers-crossing (like they do now for Stradian-Stardian). And remember how several years ago blok 17 was busted left and right? How can you have a center point issue when there is no defined rotation? That's what different about this vs Block 6. In any case, I bet the serious teams will have some pretty good questions for the judges at the first few meets of the year. I'm old enough, but I've only done 4-way for the last 4 years, so I don't recall anything about 17 - sorry. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #22 February 2, 2005 QuoteSee until we know how the judges are gonna score it its gonna be ugly. you bet... they won't give away all the wicked fun they had with block 12 for nothing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starr 0 #23 February 2, 2005 Quote- no NJ situations any more (integrated into infringements) How about NJ situation? Not being videoed was just zero per missing point. If that's now an infringement does it still mean zero or does it incur the dreaded minus 3? (That would've SERIOUSLY hosed us with our NJ packed season last year!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpwme 0 #24 February 2, 2005 NJ rule is the same - if its not shown, the formation is not counted. With the infringements eliminated, there is no reason to distinguish between the NJ and a bust. Thus, they are combined. Personally, I like that NJ's are not treated differently, but I think the bust rule is important. There is now a VERY subjective standard for trying an inter or just faking it and moving on. Also, does this rule clarify the busted inter problem (ie: if you have a clearly busted inter do you waste time building the bottom of the block or just move on). Not sure this is clear now either. As for FeFe's point - not sure you can look at the scores from a meet under the old rules and equate it to what will happen now. Under the old rules, I suspect top teams were more careful about a bust given the penalty. Now, its not so bad and moving on will almost always be faster. As for 5's - opens up a bundle of options New 12 - this can easily now be a rear slot switcher. Adds a better opportunity to move memory to the rear piece. Thoughts? Steve GT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #25 February 3, 2005 Quote does this rule clarify the busted inter problem (ie: if you have a clearly busted inter do you waste time building the bottom of the block or just move on). Not sure this is clear now either. I see it as a bust: "2.12. Omission is one of the following: 1) A formation or inter missing from the drawn sequence 2) No clear intent to build the correct formation or inter is seen but another formation or inter is presented and there is an advantage to the team resulting from the substitution." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
