grumpi 0 #1 July 30, 2004 Hi I started jumping 3 months ago and have done 13 jumps on the sl progression. My last two jumps where 10 sec ff. Yesterday I picked up my new RW jump suit with full booties. I am doing two 15 sec jumps on the weekend and I am nervous about the effect that the new jump suit will have. Is there anything I should be aware of when jumping with booties?? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joyner 0 #2 July 30, 2004 Well my only advice would be DON'T jump it!!! I have never let any of my students use booties. Booties gives you a lot of extra power and control. But a slight asymmetry in body position can produce a violent spin. I haven't heard of any instructors allowing booties on students. But maybe I'm off base here!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richardd 0 #3 July 30, 2004 I assume you can fold them back and still wear the jumpsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #4 July 30, 2004 Just roll the booties up and tuck them in (but not into your socks). I doubt whether your instructor will allow you to use them anyway! Besides, when you come to do your backflips (and your first track) etc, you won't want booties on! (anyway, have you considered why freefliers don't use booties? ) It's good you've got the suit; it'll stop other things flapping about in freefall. Wait until you've started doing RW before using booties...-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #5 July 30, 2004 Booties are GREAT. But not at this point in your training. Fold them under and make sure they are secure. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crzjp20 0 #6 July 30, 2004 i slaped mine on at jump 14 off of AFF and i wish i had waited. But now i got them down they are great! just tuck them under, that is what i still do sometimes-------------------------------------------------- Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #7 July 30, 2004 QuoteBooties are GREAT. But not at this point in your training. Fold them under and make sure they are secure. Clear tape is a good tool. Fold them under like rehmwa said and wrap around with tape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grumpi 0 #8 July 30, 2004 Thanks all. spoke to my instructor who also recomended taping the booties back untill i start RW, Thanks for the advice Graeme. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #9 July 31, 2004 Well, when I was a student I was put in a suit with booties by my instructor. I don't think it did any harm.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #10 July 31, 2004 Quote Well, when I was a student I was put in a suit with booties by my instructor. I don't think it did any harm. We all know you're special, John... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airborne82nd 0 #11 September 24, 2004 i totaly disagree with the no booties at one time students didnt use through out pilot shoots and so on this sport is all about change and things students do these days they didnt do and there were retractors back then i bought a rw suit sized to me and then i put 20 minutes in the tunnel on that suit no other suit . everytime you go to the tunnel they will give you a different suit so i bought my own with booties. so 20 minutes on the suit then i did 3 tandems then i did 20 more minutes then with 40 minutes of tunnell i was solid as a rock at aff 1-3 i had perfect stability. then i did 10 minutes and did aff4-6 then 8 minutes and aff 7, over all i have done 85 minutes. i never had a spin problem i found my booties gave me more control more drive forward more stability. no every week i see some stdent spining all over the place in a student or plane old jump suit. i see guys track in circles too. i never did that. i jump now and peope think i have double the jumps i do. i do think its important to use one suit through your training let me tell ya suits fly different. i am also the only student at my dz to have as much tunnel time and to have his own suit. i was prepared ChrisQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airborne82nd 0 #12 September 24, 2004 oh ya i was at the tunnel the other day and this asshole asked me how many jumps do you have and i said 70 ( plus 120 static lines ) he told me he had 1100 jumps and i need to cut the booties off until i had 200 jumps. now this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. anyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) anyway he got in the tunnel ( his first time ) and smashed into the walls for 2 minutes. he didnt do much better his next 2 minutes. his buddies he was with flew better. flying in the tunnel is different. i suggested that he cut his booties off or get a tunnel rental suit next time he flyes in the tunnel. he didnt even look at me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Evelyn 0 #13 September 24, 2004 I ordered my jumpsuit without booties because I was still a student and didn't know how to fly with booties. Once I started to do RW I needed booties so had detachable booties made, but they aren't the same as booties made into the jumpsuit. I wish I had gotten booties made into my jumpsuit. Now I am going to get a whole new jumpsuit with good booties built in. I could have saved myself some money if I'd just ordered a jumpsuit with good bootie straight off. Definitely get booties!! Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #14 September 24, 2004 Quotei totaly disagree with the no booties Booties is the worst thing you can do to a student. They already don't know what their legs are doing, so you want to make it THAT much more critical? Quoteso 20 minutes on the suit then i did 3 tandems then i did 20 more minutes then with 40 minutes of tunnell i was solid as a rock at aff 1-3 i had perfect stability. then i did 10 minutes and did aff4-6 then 8 minutes and aff 7, over all i have done 85 minutes. And THAT is the difference. Without that tunnel time it would have been stupid to use booties. Quotei never had a spin problem i found my booties gave me more control more drive forward more stability. no every week i see some stdent spining all over the place in a student or plane old jump suit. i see guys track in circles too. i never did that. Thats due to your time in the tuunel, NOT the booties. Quotei jump now and peope think i have double the jumps i do. Tunnel again...You DO have more than double the FF time than someone with your jumps. Quotei am also the only student at my dz to have as much tunnel time and to have his own suit. i was prepared That does NOT mean that everyone is going to be prepared. Quoteoh ya i was at the tunnel the other day and this asshole asked me how many jumps do you have and i said 70 ( plus 120 static lines ) he told me he had 1100 jumps and i need to cut the booties off until i had 200 jumps. That is silly, but I would not let a student use them till they were around 20 jumps or so. Quotenow this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. Big Fucking Deal...Does not mean you know squat about SKYDIVING. Number of jumps is a GREAT indicator of skill...Not the end all be all. But about the best we got. You think an E3 knows as much as an E7? Same thing. The fact you took Martia Arts does say that you should have less problems with what your legs are doing than an average guy... It is the Tunnel time and your training that made the difference (Tunnel more than MA)..But that DOES NOT mean that its a good idea to jump with booties as a student. Quoteanyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) Gee so a guy tries to help, but you know more than him (Or so you think) so you are gonna beat him? Remind me never to help you. Your 120 SL jumps does not mean anything when it comes to freefall. I know cause I have 32 of them myself, and 3300 SKYDIVES, Skydiving Instructor ratings, Placed in the top ten in Open twice, Won Intermediate 8way, PRO rated, was on a Military Demo team...In fact I used to teach for the 82d team, helped SF soldiers prepare for the Challenge course in Yuma...ect. Just cause you may have been top shit in the 82d does NOT transfer to skydiving. Like I said if you are the type of guy that tends to threaten folks that try to help you...Don't ask me for any help...I don't need that stupid shit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #15 September 24, 2004 Quote Well, when I was a student I was put in a suit with booties by my instructor. I don't think it did any harm. I was using booties by jump 14, also by request of my instructor. What is the important part in there? My instructor had evaluated me and realized I could use them, safely. Talk to your JM, always talk to your JM. People on this board will not know your flying abilities unless they have jumped with you. Plus there are people on here that will outright attack you for asking a simple question or requesting help because they have more years/jumps than you. Stick to talking to those at your DZ for now and avoid anyone that is abusive in nature when handing out advice - those are the wrong people to listen to and they will not be able to help you._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #16 September 24, 2004 Quotenow this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. anyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) . If he was a jerk about it (sounds like he did back off after you threatened him), well that was likely more a personality conflict with you specifically. Most jumpers mean well but take on a "at the podium" attitude. You can take whatever good you want from it or take it personally every time. The 2nd route will cost you a lot of stress and all your DZ friends. {{Cut off the booties? That's NUTS}} Get used to it, if you are new, people want to help and mean well even if they don't know the right things. If you had a coach at the tunnel, this likely wouldn't have been an issue, you just defer to the coach the 1100 jump wonder would either back off or look stupid. And if years of martial arts only gives you an attitude to "smash" people. Then you didn't get the right thing from that sport either. But at least no one will try to help you since you already know it all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #17 September 24, 2004 QuoteBooties is the worst thing you can do to a student. In your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #18 September 24, 2004 QuoteIn your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. It is not different it is an enhancement. Well if thats your thinking then you should put Velocities in your student rigs also. I mean they will eventually get the also right? There is a large number of jumpers that will never need booties. But feel free to do as you please. It will do nothing but make leg inputs more effective and that includes that bad leg inputs.... I hope your students enjoy the Velocities."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,644 #19 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. It is not different it is an enhancement. Well if thats your thinking then you should put Velocities in your student rigs also. I mean they will eventually get the also right? There is a large number of jumpers that will never need booties. But feel free to do as you please. It will do nothing but make leg inputs more effective and that includes that bad leg inputs.... I hope your students enjoy the Velocities. Ron, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? Do you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? Are you omniscient or something?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #20 September 24, 2004 QuoteRon, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? For a FJS its a bad idea. It will make the leg inputs much more critical. Like learning to fly ina pitts special. QuoteDo you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? No but his reasoning was quite bad...Because they will fly with them anyway: 1. Not everyone uses booties. 2. Then I guess we should start them all off on HP canopies then huh? QuoteAre you omniscient or something? No, but: 1. I AM a skydiving instructor, which you are not. 2. I have been told, "Oh God, Oh God...Yes" by many females."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #21 September 24, 2004 >at one time students didnt use through out pilot shoots . . . . I started 14 years ago. I started on a throwout. Skydiving has been going on for a long time; schools have tried a lot of different things. > i totaly disagree with the no booties. I don't. On student's first few jumps, one of the biggest problems we have are student's legs screwing them up. Booties help legs screw you up more. There's always time to try booties once you have basic heading/forward motion control out of the way. Besides, there is value to knowing how to fly without booties. What if you lose one one day, or have to bail out without them? There are a lot of cool things out there today in the skydiving world - full face helmets, wingsuits, CRW, high altitude jumps. Most of them are best not done or used on the first jump. The AFF course is intended to get someone to a very basic level of competence, one that lets you do very basic things by yourself or with one other person. Once that's out of the way, they are free to try new stuff, since they have learned the basics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #22 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteBooties is the worst thing you can do to a student. In your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. Exactly. Which is why some DZ's start students on HP canopies (re: A Sabre 2 IS a HP canopy). With a good instructor, it can be done. The problem there is that not all are good instructors, some just have the rating. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,644 #23 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteRon, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? For a FJS its a bad idea. It will make the leg inputs much more critical. Like learning to fly ina pitts special. QuoteDo you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? No but his reasoning was quite bad...Because they will fly with them anyway: 1. Not everyone uses booties. 2. Then I guess we should start them all off on HP canopies then huh? QuoteAre you omniscient or something? No, but: 1. I AM a skydiving instructor, which you are not. 2. I have been told, "Oh God, Oh God...Yes" by many females. Are you REALLY suggesting that advice received on the internet trumps advice given by a student's own instructor? I repeat, I was put into a bootie suit by my instructor. I had no problems with it at all. Tell me why my instructor, the chief instructor at Skydive Chicago, was wrong. I'll pass along your message.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #24 September 26, 2004 I bet you think its a good idea to teach flying in a Pitts also... Like I said...You don't even HAVE a rating."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,644 #25 September 26, 2004 QuoteI bet you think its a good idea to teach flying in a Pitts also... Like I said...You don't even HAVE a rating. How does MY lack of a rating affect the decision of my instructor, who I am prepared to bet has trained far more students than you, to put one of his students in a bootie suit? I repeat, I was put into a bootie suit by my instructor. I had no problems with it at all. Tell me why my instructor, the chief instructor at Skydive Chicago, was wrong. I'll pass along your message.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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airborne82nd 0 #12 September 24, 2004 oh ya i was at the tunnel the other day and this asshole asked me how many jumps do you have and i said 70 ( plus 120 static lines ) he told me he had 1100 jumps and i need to cut the booties off until i had 200 jumps. now this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. anyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) anyway he got in the tunnel ( his first time ) and smashed into the walls for 2 minutes. he didnt do much better his next 2 minutes. his buddies he was with flew better. flying in the tunnel is different. i suggested that he cut his booties off or get a tunnel rental suit next time he flyes in the tunnel. he didnt even look at me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evelyn 0 #13 September 24, 2004 I ordered my jumpsuit without booties because I was still a student and didn't know how to fly with booties. Once I started to do RW I needed booties so had detachable booties made, but they aren't the same as booties made into the jumpsuit. I wish I had gotten booties made into my jumpsuit. Now I am going to get a whole new jumpsuit with good booties built in. I could have saved myself some money if I'd just ordered a jumpsuit with good bootie straight off. Definitely get booties!! Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #14 September 24, 2004 Quotei totaly disagree with the no booties Booties is the worst thing you can do to a student. They already don't know what their legs are doing, so you want to make it THAT much more critical? Quoteso 20 minutes on the suit then i did 3 tandems then i did 20 more minutes then with 40 minutes of tunnell i was solid as a rock at aff 1-3 i had perfect stability. then i did 10 minutes and did aff4-6 then 8 minutes and aff 7, over all i have done 85 minutes. And THAT is the difference. Without that tunnel time it would have been stupid to use booties. Quotei never had a spin problem i found my booties gave me more control more drive forward more stability. no every week i see some stdent spining all over the place in a student or plane old jump suit. i see guys track in circles too. i never did that. Thats due to your time in the tuunel, NOT the booties. Quotei jump now and peope think i have double the jumps i do. Tunnel again...You DO have more than double the FF time than someone with your jumps. Quotei am also the only student at my dz to have as much tunnel time and to have his own suit. i was prepared That does NOT mean that everyone is going to be prepared. Quoteoh ya i was at the tunnel the other day and this asshole asked me how many jumps do you have and i said 70 ( plus 120 static lines ) he told me he had 1100 jumps and i need to cut the booties off until i had 200 jumps. That is silly, but I would not let a student use them till they were around 20 jumps or so. Quotenow this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. Big Fucking Deal...Does not mean you know squat about SKYDIVING. Number of jumps is a GREAT indicator of skill...Not the end all be all. But about the best we got. You think an E3 knows as much as an E7? Same thing. The fact you took Martia Arts does say that you should have less problems with what your legs are doing than an average guy... It is the Tunnel time and your training that made the difference (Tunnel more than MA)..But that DOES NOT mean that its a good idea to jump with booties as a student. Quoteanyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) Gee so a guy tries to help, but you know more than him (Or so you think) so you are gonna beat him? Remind me never to help you. Your 120 SL jumps does not mean anything when it comes to freefall. I know cause I have 32 of them myself, and 3300 SKYDIVES, Skydiving Instructor ratings, Placed in the top ten in Open twice, Won Intermediate 8way, PRO rated, was on a Military Demo team...In fact I used to teach for the 82d team, helped SF soldiers prepare for the Challenge course in Yuma...ect. Just cause you may have been top shit in the 82d does NOT transfer to skydiving. Like I said if you are the type of guy that tends to threaten folks that try to help you...Don't ask me for any help...I don't need that stupid shit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #15 September 24, 2004 Quote Well, when I was a student I was put in a suit with booties by my instructor. I don't think it did any harm. I was using booties by jump 14, also by request of my instructor. What is the important part in there? My instructor had evaluated me and realized I could use them, safely. Talk to your JM, always talk to your JM. People on this board will not know your flying abilities unless they have jumped with you. Plus there are people on here that will outright attack you for asking a simple question or requesting help because they have more years/jumps than you. Stick to talking to those at your DZ for now and avoid anyone that is abusive in nature when handing out advice - those are the wrong people to listen to and they will not be able to help you._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 September 24, 2004 Quotenow this idiot thinks that the amount of jumps one has makes hime know all and i had to remind him that i dont take bullshit . i use to fight in black belt tunys aau. anyway i had to set this guy straight ( watch how you talk to me or ill have to show you that 1100 jumps dont and wont make you a fighter ) he was like oh man i dont meen anything about it. but boy was he acting like such an ass and berading me my wife was scared ill smash the guy ( i am never an ass to anyone but dont be a dick to me ) . If he was a jerk about it (sounds like he did back off after you threatened him), well that was likely more a personality conflict with you specifically. Most jumpers mean well but take on a "at the podium" attitude. You can take whatever good you want from it or take it personally every time. The 2nd route will cost you a lot of stress and all your DZ friends. {{Cut off the booties? That's NUTS}} Get used to it, if you are new, people want to help and mean well even if they don't know the right things. If you had a coach at the tunnel, this likely wouldn't have been an issue, you just defer to the coach the 1100 jump wonder would either back off or look stupid. And if years of martial arts only gives you an attitude to "smash" people. Then you didn't get the right thing from that sport either. But at least no one will try to help you since you already know it all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #17 September 24, 2004 QuoteBooties is the worst thing you can do to a student. In your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #18 September 24, 2004 QuoteIn your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. It is not different it is an enhancement. Well if thats your thinking then you should put Velocities in your student rigs also. I mean they will eventually get the also right? There is a large number of jumpers that will never need booties. But feel free to do as you please. It will do nothing but make leg inputs more effective and that includes that bad leg inputs.... I hope your students enjoy the Velocities."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #19 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteIn your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. It is not different it is an enhancement. Well if thats your thinking then you should put Velocities in your student rigs also. I mean they will eventually get the also right? There is a large number of jumpers that will never need booties. But feel free to do as you please. It will do nothing but make leg inputs more effective and that includes that bad leg inputs.... I hope your students enjoy the Velocities. Ron, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? Do you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? Are you omniscient or something?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #20 September 24, 2004 QuoteRon, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? For a FJS its a bad idea. It will make the leg inputs much more critical. Like learning to fly ina pitts special. QuoteDo you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? No but his reasoning was quite bad...Because they will fly with them anyway: 1. Not everyone uses booties. 2. Then I guess we should start them all off on HP canopies then huh? QuoteAre you omniscient or something? No, but: 1. I AM a skydiving instructor, which you are not. 2. I have been told, "Oh God, Oh God...Yes" by many females."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #21 September 24, 2004 >at one time students didnt use through out pilot shoots . . . . I started 14 years ago. I started on a throwout. Skydiving has been going on for a long time; schools have tried a lot of different things. > i totaly disagree with the no booties. I don't. On student's first few jumps, one of the biggest problems we have are student's legs screwing them up. Booties help legs screw you up more. There's always time to try booties once you have basic heading/forward motion control out of the way. Besides, there is value to knowing how to fly without booties. What if you lose one one day, or have to bail out without them? There are a lot of cool things out there today in the skydiving world - full face helmets, wingsuits, CRW, high altitude jumps. Most of them are best not done or used on the first jump. The AFF course is intended to get someone to a very basic level of competence, one that lets you do very basic things by yourself or with one other person. Once that's out of the way, they are free to try new stuff, since they have learned the basics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #22 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteBooties is the worst thing you can do to a student. In your opinion. Our DZOs would put booties on all the students jumpsuits if it were practical. Their reasoning is why learn something and then learn something else later. Oh, but the way, they've been at training students for decades. Exactly. Which is why some DZ's start students on HP canopies (re: A Sabre 2 IS a HP canopy). With a good instructor, it can be done. The problem there is that not all are good instructors, some just have the rating. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #23 September 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteRon, you are sounding silly. If the instructor recommends booties, why would you have a problem with it? For a FJS its a bad idea. It will make the leg inputs much more critical. Like learning to fly ina pitts special. QuoteDo you believe in over-riding instructors' advice? No but his reasoning was quite bad...Because they will fly with them anyway: 1. Not everyone uses booties. 2. Then I guess we should start them all off on HP canopies then huh? QuoteAre you omniscient or something? No, but: 1. I AM a skydiving instructor, which you are not. 2. I have been told, "Oh God, Oh God...Yes" by many females. Are you REALLY suggesting that advice received on the internet trumps advice given by a student's own instructor? I repeat, I was put into a bootie suit by my instructor. I had no problems with it at all. Tell me why my instructor, the chief instructor at Skydive Chicago, was wrong. I'll pass along your message.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #24 September 26, 2004 I bet you think its a good idea to teach flying in a Pitts also... Like I said...You don't even HAVE a rating."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #25 September 26, 2004 QuoteI bet you think its a good idea to teach flying in a Pitts also... Like I said...You don't even HAVE a rating. How does MY lack of a rating affect the decision of my instructor, who I am prepared to bet has trained far more students than you, to put one of his students in a bootie suit? I repeat, I was put into a bootie suit by my instructor. I had no problems with it at all. Tell me why my instructor, the chief instructor at Skydive Chicago, was wrong. I'll pass along your message.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
