skipro101 0 #1 May 9, 2004 I have 67 or so jumps. 50 of those jumps were made within the last 1.5 months. 37 of those jumps (the last 37) are all sitfly. I just had my second coached jump (number 36) and it went great. Jump 37 was the best yet with being stable, holding a heading, finding the dropzone while in a sit and sliding horizontal to it, basically, its coming along nicely and I cant wait to make it better. However, I want to get my coach rating this summer. I understand one needs 100jumps. But the coach rating is based on RW not FF. I know it sounds bad, but I want to know how little i can devote to RW to pass the coach course. I do want to be well rounded and be awesome on my belly too..but I dont want to spread myself too thin early on and desire to focus on sitfly.... but i want my coach rating. So...how can i measure myself to know what i need to do? be able to make a 8point 4 way? 6 way? how good is good enough for coach? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #2 May 9, 2004 First question you need to answer is why do you want the coach rating? The answer should be because I want to help improve and assist new jumpers in learning to fly safely in groups while improving their skill level. If its about free jumps or anything else forget it... you have the wrong desire and your students will be worse for it. If you are not willing to do it for free and paying your own slot, then you are doing it more for you then for them. (You don't have to do that.. but if thats your motivation, enough said) If you want to free fly, freefly and don't get involved with students. These are students that have no concept over how to make large fall rate changes, how to exit linked stable, how to do centerpoint turns, etc. They are looking for you to teach these things to them. That means not only do you need to be able to do them, you need to be able to teach them also. 100 jumps is designed for those people that went to SkydiveU, and did nothing but 2 or 4 ways and improved rapidly. I've seen people with 200 jumps I would not let in the air with a friend of mine if they needed a coach. I had issues at 350 jumps since I had 275 freefly jumps and was struggling to fly my slot in a controled fashion while being calm enough to take the mental notes to do a proper debrief on the ground. Coaching is a mentally challenging thing to do and if you are having to stop and think about how you need to fly.. you are doing a dis-service to your student.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #3 May 9, 2004 Well i have been a ski instructor, full time in Utah, for years. I teach because I love to, im certainly not getting rich off of it. I understand your post, but im still in the dark about something. a measuring stick. I understand its not so...black and white...if you have 99points you good to be a coach but if you have 98 your not. i know its not like that. But...there ought to be a general guideline that I can use to asses myself. I guess ill just have to ask the local I/Es thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #4 May 9, 2004 We have coaches. Some are pretty good, some I wouldn't feel would be safe if THEY were the ones getting the coaching. Coaching is two things: You are good enough to help somebody (that's for the student) You get to learn to communicate and teach (that's for you) You already have the experience in the second with your skiing. So the first is what matters (and free jumps laying base for a newbie is hardly a big perk) But if anyone asks me "what is the MINIMUM I need to coach somebody". I'd say don't do it. If you want to freefly, then freefly and get good enough at that to coach at that - you'll be great because you love to coach and you love FF both. But don't waste the time and money of jumpers who are serious enough to pay for help by being a lousy coach. Because that's what you'd be (you might have skills, you might teach ok, but the passion and enthusiasm is important too). This isn't harsh, just don't teach something you don't love. You might love coaching, but you also need to love "coaching RW" to be good at it. I don't like the coach program, if I take up a newbie to work with them I pay for my own slot much more often than they pay for mine (and then only if it's taking me away from something I'd rather do at the time). Reverse RW with FF in your posting and put it in the Freefly forum and watch the fireworks ("hey, I got a 100 RW jumps, but I also can stay stable on my head and sit - but I don't really do that much. Still, I'd like to coach FF. What's the absolute minimum I need to do to teach FF so I can devote most of my time to learning mantis and 4-way?") It's no different here. Edit: If you still want to, then I'm certain the coach rating also has a skills assessment in addition to the experience requirement. This is more important thing to meet. Talk to the I/E. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #5 May 9, 2004 You are already getting your answers from everyone else here. If you want to do FF...Then do FF and learn to coach that. Leave the RW coaching to those that want to be good at RW and want to teach it. My answer to what level do you need to be? Well I'll just say this...If you are looking to have the MINUMUM skills needed...You are not at the level I would give you a student to work with."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #6 May 9, 2004 I would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. Plus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. Perhaps I should explain further. its not that I want to do the min. RW to get a coach rating and leave it at that. Rather, I intend to do both FF and RW and be competent at both. I intend to moonlight as a skydiver and wish to get AFFI, possibly tandem, etc etc. What i was trying to convey with the "minimum" statement, is that I a) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others b) want to eventually be very competent at both RW and FF c) FF is first choice for me (hey, ya gota have a fav!) online forums are very hard to use and accurately get one's point across. Simple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. Naturally the easiest thing to do would be to work on RW untill I am good coach material and then switch to FF....but I cant resist FF..especially with my latest succeses. If there were a USPA FF based coach course where I could teach a FJP but only level 17/18 of AFF progression (sitfly) then I would surely go for that. But thats not availible. anyway, I guess i just cant have my pie and eat it too. Im buying an RW suit and will focus mainly on improving that untill I can do the coach course and then will start to work on FF. ah hell who am I kidding, i cant resist FF. maybe ill just go after camera flying. That way I will have an excuse to spreadmyslef thin over the two disciplines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #7 May 9, 2004 I agree with everything that has been said here already, however to answer the question about the minimum skill level needed to be a coach - very low. There are people with the USPA coach rating that have absolutely nothing to offer to anyone with more jumps than them and would be very dangerous to people with less. I know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #8 May 10, 2004 QuoteI would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. You don't 'need' USPA to bless you off to coach. More important, you need to be good enough to do it well, and a reputation that you are worth 'hiring'. As said above, there are a lot of official 'coaches' up there that need more help than provide it. So don't rush it and be one of them. As far as being an instructor, that'll come in time. You have a bit to go. I very much respect the idea of being an 'all around' jumper. I spent my first thousand jumps on simple RW and CrW. I spent my second thousand jumps on 4-way and freeflying. I hope to spend the next on more 4-way and advanced freeflying. It's hard to get good in only a few hundred jumps at anything, so decide on your focus and kick some ass. Good luck, bite off your skills in managable chunks and you'll be good at a lot of things instead of a hack at a lot of things. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #9 May 10, 2004 Yea, after thinking about it since reading the replies. I think im just going to concentrate on having fun freeflying this summer and just take it as it comes. later people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mad47 0 #10 May 10, 2004 QuoteI know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that... That's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #11 May 11, 2004 QuoteThat's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm AgreedWind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #12 May 11, 2004 I'm sorry but every time I read this thread title, I start laughing VERY hard. I got a coach rating, but I'm really not a RW person. I had to actually get coaching to get my RW ability up enough to pass the course. I passed, but it wasn't pretty. Why have the coach rating then? I needed it to get a tandem rating. Do I do coach jumps, have I done coach jumps? Well, now I do, sometimes, since that was about 700 jumps ago that I got that rating, I'm a *bit* better on my belly then I was back then. How do I normally use that rating? Well, I tend to work with students on their canopy control stuff and I take them up for their 5.5k and their 3.5k hop-n-pops. Oh, I use it all the damn time, every tandem I take, I couldn't without having the coach rating first. Ok, the point is this, if you want a real coach rating, go get your SDU rating. That's hard-core, takes good skill and takes VERY good teaching skills, you'll get that usually worthless USPA Coach rating as well. If you want to just get your USPA rating and be a good enough flier to actually be of some use to a student, then go take SDU, due the moduals, really learn. A bad USPA coach being used at a DZ that uses the ISP and implements the coaches correctly can undo quite a bit of good that the AFF/SL/IAD or whatever program did up till that point. Bad enough that it discourages the student and they quit. Or it can be only as bad as, they don't really learn what they should of and they're just starting out with their A license as shitty skydivers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #13 May 11, 2004 There have been a whole lot of negative comments about coaches that could be taken out of context, so I just wanted to throw out that there are good USPA coaches, too. Yes, there are some people who squeaked through the coach course and add no value to the student's training, but there are also a lot of very qualified people doing coaching who provide quality instruction. I would say that there are a lot more good coaches then bad ones. Any newbies reading this, please don't get the impression that people who hold the USPA coach rating (like myself) are necessarily evil. Some of us work very hard to give safe, high quality training. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #14 May 11, 2004 Good point. Probably for every bad one, there are two or three good coaches out there. I'm struggling with this right now, because I'm at a small DZ, and there are some people there who have expressed interest in getting the rating. We DESPERATELY need coaches (we only have one), and our instructors are encouraging it. Problem is, a few of the people have no business getting that rating, they don't bother to practice belly flying, and it worries me. Our instructors are doing their best to follow the ISP, but they are "old-school" and a lot of the info they give, while it works, just isn't designed to make better flyers. It's important we have good coaches, because we only do static line, so there's no other place our students are getting their flying skills. I hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #15 May 11, 2004 That's a good point, I guess my post sounded pretty negative towards all coaches. That was not truely the intention. Yes it is an easy rating to get, yes there are some folks that shouldn't be working with students, BUT there are a lot of really good coaches that teach really well and really help students out.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #16 May 11, 2004 QuoteI hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills? I would say, "Maybe you should go practice some belly skills." Anyone who gets offended by the suggestion that they should be proficient at what they desire to teach needs to have their ego put in check. If they resist the idea that a USPA coach should be good at belly flying, present it to them like someone else in this thread put it. If a belly flyer who could only hold a stable sit and not cork tried to become a freefly coach, what would the freefliers think? Students deserve to have competent, qualfied coaches, and they need people who are properly trained on safety issues. On the other hand, if your friend just wants to jump with licensed low timers for fun, then I say have at it, just don't charge them for something he can't give. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #17 May 11, 2004 I guess I, like aggiedave, just want the coach rating as a means to an end. Its too bad there isnt a FF based USPA coach rating that would allow one to teach first jump courses (under sup of instructor) and also sitflying.... im going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #18 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #19 May 11, 2004 The requirements for the coach ratings are pitiful. If you can fall stable, do both a diving and floating exit, dock, and have basic level control, you have the necesary RW skillset to get your coach rating. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #20 May 11, 2004 QuoteIf you can fall stable There are people with the rating who cannot even do that... Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #21 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed... You're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #22 May 11, 2004 QuoteYou're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is Hmmm, as far as I know SDU does not have an official freefly program. There was the Freefly Search this past year but I'm not quote sure how SDU actually handled it. I've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #23 May 12, 2004 QuoteI've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it. Very well then, looks like I was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites daveb 1 #24 May 12, 2004 QuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4. Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this. QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline. Your enthusiasm is great; keep at it for a couple of years then look at picking up a rating. In the meantime, infect as many people as possible with your love of the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #25 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4.. That talks about AFF. See 12 of 17, #2 a and b about the privliges of coaches . Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this.. You do at a USPA dropzone... . QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline.. I appreciate your cander, and I realize this. . Your enthusiasm is great; keep at it for a couple of years then look at picking up a rating. In the meantime, infect as many people as possible with your love of the sport. At the rate im going i dont think it will take a "couple of years...." But we will see Quote
PhreeZone 15 #2 May 9, 2004 First question you need to answer is why do you want the coach rating? The answer should be because I want to help improve and assist new jumpers in learning to fly safely in groups while improving their skill level. If its about free jumps or anything else forget it... you have the wrong desire and your students will be worse for it. If you are not willing to do it for free and paying your own slot, then you are doing it more for you then for them. (You don't have to do that.. but if thats your motivation, enough said) If you want to free fly, freefly and don't get involved with students. These are students that have no concept over how to make large fall rate changes, how to exit linked stable, how to do centerpoint turns, etc. They are looking for you to teach these things to them. That means not only do you need to be able to do them, you need to be able to teach them also. 100 jumps is designed for those people that went to SkydiveU, and did nothing but 2 or 4 ways and improved rapidly. I've seen people with 200 jumps I would not let in the air with a friend of mine if they needed a coach. I had issues at 350 jumps since I had 275 freefly jumps and was struggling to fly my slot in a controled fashion while being calm enough to take the mental notes to do a proper debrief on the ground. Coaching is a mentally challenging thing to do and if you are having to stop and think about how you need to fly.. you are doing a dis-service to your student.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #3 May 9, 2004 Well i have been a ski instructor, full time in Utah, for years. I teach because I love to, im certainly not getting rich off of it. I understand your post, but im still in the dark about something. a measuring stick. I understand its not so...black and white...if you have 99points you good to be a coach but if you have 98 your not. i know its not like that. But...there ought to be a general guideline that I can use to asses myself. I guess ill just have to ask the local I/Es thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #4 May 9, 2004 We have coaches. Some are pretty good, some I wouldn't feel would be safe if THEY were the ones getting the coaching. Coaching is two things: You are good enough to help somebody (that's for the student) You get to learn to communicate and teach (that's for you) You already have the experience in the second with your skiing. So the first is what matters (and free jumps laying base for a newbie is hardly a big perk) But if anyone asks me "what is the MINIMUM I need to coach somebody". I'd say don't do it. If you want to freefly, then freefly and get good enough at that to coach at that - you'll be great because you love to coach and you love FF both. But don't waste the time and money of jumpers who are serious enough to pay for help by being a lousy coach. Because that's what you'd be (you might have skills, you might teach ok, but the passion and enthusiasm is important too). This isn't harsh, just don't teach something you don't love. You might love coaching, but you also need to love "coaching RW" to be good at it. I don't like the coach program, if I take up a newbie to work with them I pay for my own slot much more often than they pay for mine (and then only if it's taking me away from something I'd rather do at the time). Reverse RW with FF in your posting and put it in the Freefly forum and watch the fireworks ("hey, I got a 100 RW jumps, but I also can stay stable on my head and sit - but I don't really do that much. Still, I'd like to coach FF. What's the absolute minimum I need to do to teach FF so I can devote most of my time to learning mantis and 4-way?") It's no different here. Edit: If you still want to, then I'm certain the coach rating also has a skills assessment in addition to the experience requirement. This is more important thing to meet. Talk to the I/E. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #5 May 9, 2004 You are already getting your answers from everyone else here. If you want to do FF...Then do FF and learn to coach that. Leave the RW coaching to those that want to be good at RW and want to teach it. My answer to what level do you need to be? Well I'll just say this...If you are looking to have the MINUMUM skills needed...You are not at the level I would give you a student to work with."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #6 May 9, 2004 I would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. Plus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. Perhaps I should explain further. its not that I want to do the min. RW to get a coach rating and leave it at that. Rather, I intend to do both FF and RW and be competent at both. I intend to moonlight as a skydiver and wish to get AFFI, possibly tandem, etc etc. What i was trying to convey with the "minimum" statement, is that I a) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others b) want to eventually be very competent at both RW and FF c) FF is first choice for me (hey, ya gota have a fav!) online forums are very hard to use and accurately get one's point across. Simple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. Naturally the easiest thing to do would be to work on RW untill I am good coach material and then switch to FF....but I cant resist FF..especially with my latest succeses. If there were a USPA FF based coach course where I could teach a FJP but only level 17/18 of AFF progression (sitfly) then I would surely go for that. But thats not availible. anyway, I guess i just cant have my pie and eat it too. Im buying an RW suit and will focus mainly on improving that untill I can do the coach course and then will start to work on FF. ah hell who am I kidding, i cant resist FF. maybe ill just go after camera flying. That way I will have an excuse to spreadmyslef thin over the two disciplines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #7 May 9, 2004 I agree with everything that has been said here already, however to answer the question about the minimum skill level needed to be a coach - very low. There are people with the USPA coach rating that have absolutely nothing to offer to anyone with more jumps than them and would be very dangerous to people with less. I know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #8 May 10, 2004 QuoteI would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. You don't 'need' USPA to bless you off to coach. More important, you need to be good enough to do it well, and a reputation that you are worth 'hiring'. As said above, there are a lot of official 'coaches' up there that need more help than provide it. So don't rush it and be one of them. As far as being an instructor, that'll come in time. You have a bit to go. I very much respect the idea of being an 'all around' jumper. I spent my first thousand jumps on simple RW and CrW. I spent my second thousand jumps on 4-way and freeflying. I hope to spend the next on more 4-way and advanced freeflying. It's hard to get good in only a few hundred jumps at anything, so decide on your focus and kick some ass. Good luck, bite off your skills in managable chunks and you'll be good at a lot of things instead of a hack at a lot of things. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #9 May 10, 2004 Yea, after thinking about it since reading the replies. I think im just going to concentrate on having fun freeflying this summer and just take it as it comes. later people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mad47 0 #10 May 10, 2004 QuoteI know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that... That's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #11 May 11, 2004 QuoteThat's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm AgreedWind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #12 May 11, 2004 I'm sorry but every time I read this thread title, I start laughing VERY hard. I got a coach rating, but I'm really not a RW person. I had to actually get coaching to get my RW ability up enough to pass the course. I passed, but it wasn't pretty. Why have the coach rating then? I needed it to get a tandem rating. Do I do coach jumps, have I done coach jumps? Well, now I do, sometimes, since that was about 700 jumps ago that I got that rating, I'm a *bit* better on my belly then I was back then. How do I normally use that rating? Well, I tend to work with students on their canopy control stuff and I take them up for their 5.5k and their 3.5k hop-n-pops. Oh, I use it all the damn time, every tandem I take, I couldn't without having the coach rating first. Ok, the point is this, if you want a real coach rating, go get your SDU rating. That's hard-core, takes good skill and takes VERY good teaching skills, you'll get that usually worthless USPA Coach rating as well. If you want to just get your USPA rating and be a good enough flier to actually be of some use to a student, then go take SDU, due the moduals, really learn. A bad USPA coach being used at a DZ that uses the ISP and implements the coaches correctly can undo quite a bit of good that the AFF/SL/IAD or whatever program did up till that point. Bad enough that it discourages the student and they quit. Or it can be only as bad as, they don't really learn what they should of and they're just starting out with their A license as shitty skydivers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #13 May 11, 2004 There have been a whole lot of negative comments about coaches that could be taken out of context, so I just wanted to throw out that there are good USPA coaches, too. Yes, there are some people who squeaked through the coach course and add no value to the student's training, but there are also a lot of very qualified people doing coaching who provide quality instruction. I would say that there are a lot more good coaches then bad ones. Any newbies reading this, please don't get the impression that people who hold the USPA coach rating (like myself) are necessarily evil. Some of us work very hard to give safe, high quality training. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #14 May 11, 2004 Good point. Probably for every bad one, there are two or three good coaches out there. I'm struggling with this right now, because I'm at a small DZ, and there are some people there who have expressed interest in getting the rating. We DESPERATELY need coaches (we only have one), and our instructors are encouraging it. Problem is, a few of the people have no business getting that rating, they don't bother to practice belly flying, and it worries me. Our instructors are doing their best to follow the ISP, but they are "old-school" and a lot of the info they give, while it works, just isn't designed to make better flyers. It's important we have good coaches, because we only do static line, so there's no other place our students are getting their flying skills. I hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #15 May 11, 2004 That's a good point, I guess my post sounded pretty negative towards all coaches. That was not truely the intention. Yes it is an easy rating to get, yes there are some folks that shouldn't be working with students, BUT there are a lot of really good coaches that teach really well and really help students out.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #16 May 11, 2004 QuoteI hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills? I would say, "Maybe you should go practice some belly skills." Anyone who gets offended by the suggestion that they should be proficient at what they desire to teach needs to have their ego put in check. If they resist the idea that a USPA coach should be good at belly flying, present it to them like someone else in this thread put it. If a belly flyer who could only hold a stable sit and not cork tried to become a freefly coach, what would the freefliers think? Students deserve to have competent, qualfied coaches, and they need people who are properly trained on safety issues. On the other hand, if your friend just wants to jump with licensed low timers for fun, then I say have at it, just don't charge them for something he can't give. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #17 May 11, 2004 I guess I, like aggiedave, just want the coach rating as a means to an end. Its too bad there isnt a FF based USPA coach rating that would allow one to teach first jump courses (under sup of instructor) and also sitflying.... im going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #18 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #19 May 11, 2004 The requirements for the coach ratings are pitiful. If you can fall stable, do both a diving and floating exit, dock, and have basic level control, you have the necesary RW skillset to get your coach rating. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #20 May 11, 2004 QuoteIf you can fall stable There are people with the rating who cannot even do that... Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #21 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed... You're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #22 May 11, 2004 QuoteYou're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is Hmmm, as far as I know SDU does not have an official freefly program. There was the Freefly Search this past year but I'm not quote sure how SDU actually handled it. I've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #23 May 12, 2004 QuoteI've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it. Very well then, looks like I was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites daveb 1 #24 May 12, 2004 QuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4. Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this. QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline. Your enthusiasm is great; keep at it for a couple of years then look at picking up a rating. In the meantime, infect as many people as possible with your love of the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipro101 0 #25 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4.. That talks about AFF. See 12 of 17, #2 a and b about the privliges of coaches . Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this.. You do at a USPA dropzone... . QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline.. I appreciate your cander, and I realize this. . Your enthusiasm is great; keep at it for a couple of years then look at picking up a rating. In the meantime, infect as many people as possible with your love of the sport.
rehmwa 2 #4 May 9, 2004 We have coaches. Some are pretty good, some I wouldn't feel would be safe if THEY were the ones getting the coaching. Coaching is two things: You are good enough to help somebody (that's for the student) You get to learn to communicate and teach (that's for you) You already have the experience in the second with your skiing. So the first is what matters (and free jumps laying base for a newbie is hardly a big perk) But if anyone asks me "what is the MINIMUM I need to coach somebody". I'd say don't do it. If you want to freefly, then freefly and get good enough at that to coach at that - you'll be great because you love to coach and you love FF both. But don't waste the time and money of jumpers who are serious enough to pay for help by being a lousy coach. Because that's what you'd be (you might have skills, you might teach ok, but the passion and enthusiasm is important too). This isn't harsh, just don't teach something you don't love. You might love coaching, but you also need to love "coaching RW" to be good at it. I don't like the coach program, if I take up a newbie to work with them I pay for my own slot much more often than they pay for mine (and then only if it's taking me away from something I'd rather do at the time). Reverse RW with FF in your posting and put it in the Freefly forum and watch the fireworks ("hey, I got a 100 RW jumps, but I also can stay stable on my head and sit - but I don't really do that much. Still, I'd like to coach FF. What's the absolute minimum I need to do to teach FF so I can devote most of my time to learning mantis and 4-way?") It's no different here. Edit: If you still want to, then I'm certain the coach rating also has a skills assessment in addition to the experience requirement. This is more important thing to meet. Talk to the I/E. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #5 May 9, 2004 You are already getting your answers from everyone else here. If you want to do FF...Then do FF and learn to coach that. Leave the RW coaching to those that want to be good at RW and want to teach it. My answer to what level do you need to be? Well I'll just say this...If you are looking to have the MINUMUM skills needed...You are not at the level I would give you a student to work with."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #6 May 9, 2004 I would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. Plus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. Perhaps I should explain further. its not that I want to do the min. RW to get a coach rating and leave it at that. Rather, I intend to do both FF and RW and be competent at both. I intend to moonlight as a skydiver and wish to get AFFI, possibly tandem, etc etc. What i was trying to convey with the "minimum" statement, is that I a) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others b) want to eventually be very competent at both RW and FF c) FF is first choice for me (hey, ya gota have a fav!) online forums are very hard to use and accurately get one's point across. Simple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. Naturally the easiest thing to do would be to work on RW untill I am good coach material and then switch to FF....but I cant resist FF..especially with my latest succeses. If there were a USPA FF based coach course where I could teach a FJP but only level 17/18 of AFF progression (sitfly) then I would surely go for that. But thats not availible. anyway, I guess i just cant have my pie and eat it too. Im buying an RW suit and will focus mainly on improving that untill I can do the coach course and then will start to work on FF. ah hell who am I kidding, i cant resist FF. maybe ill just go after camera flying. That way I will have an excuse to spreadmyslef thin over the two disciplines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #7 May 9, 2004 I agree with everything that has been said here already, however to answer the question about the minimum skill level needed to be a coach - very low. There are people with the USPA coach rating that have absolutely nothing to offer to anyone with more jumps than them and would be very dangerous to people with less. I know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 May 10, 2004 QuoteI would love it if there was a USPA FF coach rating. But to my knowledge there isnt. You don't 'need' USPA to bless you off to coach. More important, you need to be good enough to do it well, and a reputation that you are worth 'hiring'. As said above, there are a lot of official 'coaches' up there that need more help than provide it. So don't rush it and be one of them. As far as being an instructor, that'll come in time. You have a bit to go. I very much respect the idea of being an 'all around' jumper. I spent my first thousand jumps on simple RW and CrW. I spent my second thousand jumps on 4-way and freeflying. I hope to spend the next on more 4-way and advanced freeflying. It's hard to get good in only a few hundred jumps at anything, so decide on your focus and kick some ass. Good luck, bite off your skills in managable chunks and you'll be good at a lot of things instead of a hack at a lot of things. Blues ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #9 May 10, 2004 Yea, after thinking about it since reading the replies. I think im just going to concentrate on having fun freeflying this summer and just take it as it comes. later people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #10 May 10, 2004 QuoteI know people with a coach rating who are absolutely horrible flyers and I feel would be a danger to anyone in the air. Trust me, you don't want to be like that... That's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #11 May 11, 2004 QuoteThat's why I personally like SDU vs USPA coach programm AgreedWind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 May 11, 2004 I'm sorry but every time I read this thread title, I start laughing VERY hard. I got a coach rating, but I'm really not a RW person. I had to actually get coaching to get my RW ability up enough to pass the course. I passed, but it wasn't pretty. Why have the coach rating then? I needed it to get a tandem rating. Do I do coach jumps, have I done coach jumps? Well, now I do, sometimes, since that was about 700 jumps ago that I got that rating, I'm a *bit* better on my belly then I was back then. How do I normally use that rating? Well, I tend to work with students on their canopy control stuff and I take them up for their 5.5k and their 3.5k hop-n-pops. Oh, I use it all the damn time, every tandem I take, I couldn't without having the coach rating first. Ok, the point is this, if you want a real coach rating, go get your SDU rating. That's hard-core, takes good skill and takes VERY good teaching skills, you'll get that usually worthless USPA Coach rating as well. If you want to just get your USPA rating and be a good enough flier to actually be of some use to a student, then go take SDU, due the moduals, really learn. A bad USPA coach being used at a DZ that uses the ISP and implements the coaches correctly can undo quite a bit of good that the AFF/SL/IAD or whatever program did up till that point. Bad enough that it discourages the student and they quit. Or it can be only as bad as, they don't really learn what they should of and they're just starting out with their A license as shitty skydivers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #13 May 11, 2004 There have been a whole lot of negative comments about coaches that could be taken out of context, so I just wanted to throw out that there are good USPA coaches, too. Yes, there are some people who squeaked through the coach course and add no value to the student's training, but there are also a lot of very qualified people doing coaching who provide quality instruction. I would say that there are a lot more good coaches then bad ones. Any newbies reading this, please don't get the impression that people who hold the USPA coach rating (like myself) are necessarily evil. Some of us work very hard to give safe, high quality training. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #14 May 11, 2004 Good point. Probably for every bad one, there are two or three good coaches out there. I'm struggling with this right now, because I'm at a small DZ, and there are some people there who have expressed interest in getting the rating. We DESPERATELY need coaches (we only have one), and our instructors are encouraging it. Problem is, a few of the people have no business getting that rating, they don't bother to practice belly flying, and it worries me. Our instructors are doing their best to follow the ISP, but they are "old-school" and a lot of the info they give, while it works, just isn't designed to make better flyers. It's important we have good coaches, because we only do static line, so there's no other place our students are getting their flying skills. I hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 May 11, 2004 That's a good point, I guess my post sounded pretty negative towards all coaches. That was not truely the intention. Yes it is an easy rating to get, yes there are some folks that shouldn't be working with students, BUT there are a lot of really good coaches that teach really well and really help students out.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #16 May 11, 2004 QuoteI hate saying anything, either, because I don't want to sound like a snob, but how do I suggest to the freeflyer who wants the coach rating that maybe they should go practice some belly skills? I would say, "Maybe you should go practice some belly skills." Anyone who gets offended by the suggestion that they should be proficient at what they desire to teach needs to have their ego put in check. If they resist the idea that a USPA coach should be good at belly flying, present it to them like someone else in this thread put it. If a belly flyer who could only hold a stable sit and not cork tried to become a freefly coach, what would the freefliers think? Students deserve to have competent, qualfied coaches, and they need people who are properly trained on safety issues. On the other hand, if your friend just wants to jump with licensed low timers for fun, then I say have at it, just don't charge them for something he can't give. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #17 May 11, 2004 I guess I, like aggiedave, just want the coach rating as a means to an end. Its too bad there isnt a FF based USPA coach rating that would allow one to teach first jump courses (under sup of instructor) and also sitflying.... im going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #18 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #19 May 11, 2004 The requirements for the coach ratings are pitiful. If you can fall stable, do both a diving and floating exit, dock, and have basic level control, you have the necesary RW skillset to get your coach rating. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #20 May 11, 2004 QuoteIf you can fall stable There are people with the rating who cannot even do that... Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #21 May 11, 2004 Quoteim going to have to look into that SDU program..do they have freeflying ratings? No, but it's been discussed... You're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #22 May 11, 2004 QuoteYou're kidding, the two SDU coaches I know said they had one, its just not very well known, like the RW side of the house is Hmmm, as far as I know SDU does not have an official freefly program. There was the Freefly Search this past year but I'm not quote sure how SDU actually handled it. I've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 May 12, 2004 QuoteI've spoken to Rob about making freefly an official part of SDU and will be talking with him more about it. Very well then, looks like I was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveb 1 #24 May 12, 2004 QuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4. Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this. QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline. Your enthusiasm is great; keep at it for a couple of years then look at picking up a rating. In the meantime, infect as many people as possible with your love of the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #25 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuotePlus, I want to be able to teach the first jump course. See USPA IRM, especially page (16 of 27), section A.4.. That talks about AFF. See 12 of 17, #2 a and b about the privliges of coaches . Quotea) want to get my coach rating so that I can share my enjoyment for the sport and help others This is highly commendable, and is in large part what this sport is about. However, you do not need a rating of any type to do this.. You do at a USPA dropzone... . QuoteSimple fact is, I want to do both RW and FF, but i want to get into coaching asap. See the url above, especially page (6 of 27). Respectfully, you have quite a ways to go before you are really qualified to coach any discipline.. I appreciate your cander, and I realize this. .
