Knee width

[Cookie 0]

Nice Average. All valid points. I certainly don't want to get into a slinging match over different view's refering to body position. Yes the top team's with 20 + averages have 1.1 sec radoms, they also have to flash between each random. So I think fast reaction times for dramtic body postion change is feasable.

I also pride myself on being a good relworker with PB's of 15.8avg 4way and 14.7avg 8way at the 1999 World Meet. My team mate from the 1997 World Meet is Airspeeds Todd Hawkins. That is enough of my Bios. Iam also a big dude 6'2 and 190lbs for me to fly fast I have to get small, regarding fall rates, I believe if you can see your opposite there is a good chance of moving fast with dramatic body position changes and remaining on level or at least finishing a move on level.

Nice skydive for a 19 Ron. Check out the different body positions your OC flys compared to the Point. I would compare my body position to your OC guys

The Mantis position has many extensions. Compare a good mantis position when doing a solo to one where your the IC of a bent cat. One of you arms in a bent cat is close to your head where the other is straight.

That's enough from me.
Great discussion.

Cookie
Run It!!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Nice skydive for a 19 Ron. Check out the different body positions your OC flys compared to the Point. I would compare my body position to your OC guys

the OC looks Mantis enough for me - you must just be talking degrees like you said.

Hey, do you know team Whoosh? Is that your team? Clare's an old friend. (and yeah, I know that Australia's a very big place and it's like you asking me if I know "Tom" from Minnesota, but just checking since there are a handful of mid-teen teams (?) in Oz and you all likely know each other)

Edit: clearly with your average, my sidebuddy digression is old hat for you, but maybe some newbies can take something away from it

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

Quote

All valid points. I certainly don't want to get into a slinging match over different view's refering to body position

Yes, and there is no point getting into a big discussion about it...Everyone is going to fly differently. You at 6'2" and 190 can't fly the same way I do at 5'6" and 155.

Besides a 15+ avg is impressive no matter how ya did it.

The "Mantis" is not a hard and fast position anyway. There is no "perfect" position and to go fast you have to modify everything. I don't turn like you, and you don't turn like me. We may have some of the same basics...But I bet we don't do the same things, but we do get the same results.

Quote

Nice skydive for a 19 Ron

Yeah to bad I BL on the first two pages. I had not jumped since the Nationals and then only in 8 way...

Quote

My team mate from the 1997 World Meet is Airspeeds Todd Hawkins

Yeah I like Todd. We met at the Brag tunnel last year, and I did some tunnel with him at the end of last year...A good guy and a great flyer. The point of that group was his old teemie from Matrix Healy.

Oh well, good discussion and I bet some new guys are getting a lot out of this.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Alienangel 0]

Women are genetically different from men. Most of them anyway. So, their hips are more flexible, making it easier to keep legs wide whilst arching. It's probably related to that giving birth thing. This is quite fortunate, since if a girl is doing 4way with 3 guys she needs all the added stability she can get.

14 lbs is not a lot of lead anyway, I believe there is a girl on Airspeed who wears more than that, and I guess she knows what she's doing.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Women are genetically different from men. Most of them anyway. So, their hips are more flexible, making it easier to keep legs wide whilst arching

Making it even easier to arch if the knees are narrow.

And if wide makes you fall slower then they would need to add even more weight.

Funny thing about added weight..While it does help you fall faster it also takes more energy to start and stop movement. The good thing is that the faster fall rate can make up for the additional energy to start a move by having more air availible to work with.

But given the choice I think weights are a last resort used to match a fall rate of a group after you have reached a comfertable and manuverable body position.


Teams like Majik are working to loose as much weight as possible to allow them to have faster moves by being able to use less energy to achieve the same move.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Women . . .So, their hips are more flexible, making it easier to keep legs wide whilst arching

If this is a gender observation, the biggest problem we've seen with women in AFF is their legs get too wide aparts and that forces a dearch and instability. for what it's worth.

If 3 guys are knocking a girl about in a 4-way team, then best to have them do some stillness drills for a few jumps.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Adriandavies 0]

I have been advised to try to keep my knees closer together but no matter what I do I end up with them wide apart. I visualise what position I should be in and I practice on the ground, but when I get in the air, especially when I am doing RW with someone, I tend to adopt a knees wide position which also means that I lose my arch.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I have been advised to try to keep my knees closer together but no matter what I do I end up with them wide apart. I visualise what position I should be in and I practice on the ground, but when I get in the air, especially when I am doing RW with someone, I tend to adopt a knees wide position which also means that I lose my arch.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Purposely practice for several jumps with your knees touching (feel the inside grippers touch as you move). Just turns and stuff. Use solos. This exagerates the feel and you'll appreciate the performance improvement.

Repetition is the best way to learn this.

go to the tunnel and do this - won't take long.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[usskydiver 0]

Lots of good opinions and rationale in here. I'm working on widening my stance over my previous stance to increase stability and not get moved around as much.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

increase stability and not get moved around as much.

This sounds more like the teammates need to practice something than you widening your stance. (Off the cuff comment here, but stillness and clean stops will get you going faster than carrying momentum - or so I'm told, we're not too fast yet, but we are working on not 'moving' each other around the sky).

Funny, with more power in a strong arch (knees together) you have more range and likely more ability to stay put. Wider stance will reduce your ability to react.

I'm still working to be conscious of my inside grippers close to each other while in practice - it was so easy in the tunnel, it'll be second nature soon I hope.

Edit: Checked the Paraclete website to make sure I'm not commenting to someone highly experienced who is working with highly experienced folks. Of course I am. well, too bad, I'm presumptious

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

Quote

Lots of good opinions and rationale in here. I'm working on widening my stance over my previous stance to increase stability and not get moved around as much.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete

Thats cool...did Talbert tell you that?

And hows the project going? Find an 8th?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[usskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

Lots of good opinions and rationale in here. I'm working on widening my stance over my previous stance to increase stability and not get moved around as much.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete

Thats cool...did Talbert tell you that?

And hows the project going? Find an 8th?

No, Craig Girard. We worked on it extensively in the tunnel (along with my other body position shorcomings). Project is going well and I believe were at the 90% solution on the 8th.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

No, Craig Girard. We worked on it extensively in the tunnel (along

Mmmm, humble pie,,

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[MattM 0]

Who is Craig Girard?

Matt

[daveb 1]

Quote

Who is Craig Girard?

Click here, scroll down a bit for an abbreviated version.

[MattM 0]

I know who he is, I was being sarcastic. I'm on Team Paraclete aswell and we have been working closely with him and the rest of Airspeed.

Matt

[Zoter 0]

I did some experimentation over the weekend.....having 'easy access' to a wind tunnel might help speed up the process...but whatever...i had to cram it into my short freefalls

Personally right now Im working on freeflying....but I know I gotta go back some more on RW...especially falling slower......

During my FS qualifications...I had a fall rate (neutral)( at 125-140mph)....and much to my initial loathing...and having read here and gained advice elsewhere....I tried a 'slow fall jump'...Belly...where I would just try and 'slow down'

For the first half of the dive...I was in a boxman position with my arms below shoulder position and arms and legs WIDE...I averaged 113mph
For the second half I repeated...but with my legs closer togther....more of a Mantis type position...av =117mph

I attribute the diffrence in that Im shit at Mantis and heavy......but I felt more comfortable in a 'modified' boxman...but wide

I know these speeds will make most of ya laugh
but for me its a quantum leap.....as is the ability I have now to 'experiment' freely through my range of stability and be able to really analyse what Im doing....that my friendss I totally attribute to the volume of freeflying I have been doing over the last 20-30 jumps

[bdyflyr 0]

The physical build of man and woman are obviously different and so a woman's center of gravity lies in a different place. Use your natural arch, which usually starts at the bottom of the rib cage as opposed to using your pelvis like a guy would. Keep your elbows up and relax. Every thing else will end up where it is supposed to be and you'll be able to keep up with the big boys no problem. I've taught tiny ladies that possibly weigh 100 pounds soaking wet to catch up with huge guys and fly circles around them. Once you get it down, go to a dz where no one knows you and offer to be in the base.

Good luck!

Rondi
D21356

>>I am a small girl, and do mostly RW, so I wear 14 lbs of lead usually. This puts me at a pretty average fall rate. Last weekend I was talking to a very experienced RW guy and he said that 14 lbs is way too much, and that my fall rate was probably slow because my knees are too far apart. He said that they should be no more than shoulder width apart. This makes a lot of sense, but I've never heard it before. >>

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Luke 10:20