Beginner Advice Requested

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Hey there...looking to tap into the collective wisdom here-

Looking for some advice, or constructive criticism rather, on my 90 downwind swoop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ANMJY5inhk

Stiletto 135 loaded 1.19 starting the 90 at 300ft.

I'm in half brakes and let the canopy dive for 1 or 2 seconds, get on double fronts for a couple of seconds and give a combination of harness and riser input for a slow 90 carve.

In the video there are some obvious things like I overshot the setup a bit so I carved wider and had to give some harness at the end to avoid the bushes.

I think I am approaching things the right way here and have some guidance, have taken canopy courses, etc.

One thing I'd like advice about specifically:

towards the end there I feel like I lost a little power in the flare...could it be that I finished the flare a little late which caused me to "drop out"?

Also, the riser pressure and recovery arc on the stiletto are a little annoying...any advice on how to deal with this? (perhaps I should just suck it up and learn to hang on double fronts more?) I guess that's two separate issues but whatever.

Any responses are greatly appreciated!

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Also, the riser pressure and recovery arc on the stiletto are a little annoying...any advice on how to deal with this? (perhaps I should just suck it up and learn to hang on double fronts more?) I guess that's two separate issues but whatever.

Get a Sabre2!

[dragon2 0]

Ditto.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[davelepka 4]

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I think I am approaching things the right way

How about learing to swoop into the wind before going downwind? This way, when you run into something you won't be going as fast.

How about selecting a better canopy for your experience and intentions?

With 200 jumps, it's great to see you doing downwinders with a Stiletto while wearing a camera. Real nice.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

You make it sound like I've never done this before?

I only have 200 jumps but a large portion of these are hop 'n pops and high up jumps soley for canopy flight. I've taken canopy courses and am constantly getting video and help and advice from other jumpers.

I had my standard 90 dialed in so I'm taking it downwind to get used to the speed before moving on to 180s.

I MAXED out my previous canopy and an instructor advised me to downsize and move to a more tapered canopy since I knew I was going to focus on this discipline already.

Please don't be a dick I've asked for constructive criticism. I'm conscious of the fact that I'm doing downwinders on a Stiletto with a camera, that's my choice and my risk.

edit to add:

So far no one has really addressed my question about my flare or anything.

[Fast 0]

Realistic advice:

Stilletos are not great for learning to swoop modern canopies. They have a really short recovery arc. This means you have to hook it lower and be much more precise on your turn altitude. A saber2, safire2 or pilot has a better recovery arc for learning swooping. That fact coupled with 200 jumps is what scares people.

Furthermore, I don't think doing down winders is going to help you much and just has a lot of potential for bad things to happen. You might be going faster in your actual swoop, but you have no ability to slow down at the end of your swoop. This means that you are forced into a higher speed when you are "done" with the swoop and want to shut it down for landing. This to me just sounds like a bad concept.

I don't really know how at 200 jumps you could possibly have 90's completely dialed in. Have you tried all the different riser techniques that are available to you? Are you landing on rears yet? You can hit the gates every time? (by hit the gates I mean, be going through them, and on level, and doing so w/o wasting a bunch of room in front of them, AND not wasting a lot of your "swoop" power lining up to the gates? (one more edit to add that, I didn't see gates in the video, don't let that stop you, talk to your dzo and go buy some pool noodles)

I just can't see that being the case, but maybe it is. If that's true - consider adding a few more degrees of rotation to your turn. If you are consistently doing hop'n'pops you should for the most part have the sky to yourself? If you do you can start working on 135 degree turns in an effort to work up to 180s and 270s.

Edit:
Regarding your question about the flare, I think what happened is your canopy ran out of airspeed to fly anymore. You still had groundspeed because of the downwind component. This goes to what I was saying regarding why I think doing downwinds is a bad idea. I also think your front riser technique could use work. I didn't see you land on rears with this landing, and if you aren't doing that on upwind landings, that really should be the next thing you learn.

p.s. swooping is dangerous, don't ever kid yourself that it's not. This is my warning that it's highly possible you're going to get hurt, not like you didn't already know this.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm conscious of the fact that I'm doing downwinders on a Stiletto with a camera, that's my choice and my risk.

Not really. I see other people in the landing area in that video; I can only assume that wasn't a solo pass where you had all the airspace to yourself.

I'll leave the constructive criticism on technique to the folks who actually swoop. Just wanted to point out (from the point of view of someone who might be under canopy at the same time as you planning a standard pattern and wanting very much to make it down safely without being taken out) that your downwinders are *not* all about you if there are other people landing at the same time.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Are you landing on rears yet?

Hopefully not - nor should he be.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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Realistic advice:

Stilletos are not great for learning to swoop modern canopies. They have a really short recovery arc. This means you have to hook it lower and be much more precise on your turn altitude. A saber2, safire2 or pilot has a better recovery arc for learning swooping. That fact coupled with 200 jumps is what scares people.

Furthermore, I don't think doing down winders is going to help you much and just has a lot of potential for bad things to happen. You might be going faster in your actual swoop, but you have no ability to slow down at the end of your swoop. This means that you are forced into a higher speed when you are "done" with the swoop and want to shut it down for landing. This to me just sounds like a bad concept.

I don't really know how at 200 jumps you could possibly have 90's completely dialed in. Have you tried all the different riser techniques that are available to you? Are you landing on rears yet? You can hit the gates every time? (by hit the gates I mean, be going through them, and on level, and doing so w/o wasting a bunch of room in front of them, AND not wasting a lot of your "swoop" power lining up to the gates? (one more edit to add that, I didn't see gates in the video, don't let that stop you, talk to your dzo and go buy some pool noodles)

I just can't see that being the case, but maybe it is. If that's true - consider adding a few more degrees of rotation to your turn. If you are consistently doing hop'n'pops you should for the most part have the sky to yourself? If you do you can start working on 135 degree turns in an effort to work up to 180s and 270s.

Edit:
Regarding your question about the flare, I think what happened is your canopy ran out of airspeed to fly anymore. You still had groundspeed because of the downwind component. This goes to what I was saying regarding why I think doing downwinds is a bad idea. I also think your front riser technique could use work. I didn't see you land on rears with this landing, and if you aren't doing that on upwind landings, that really should be the next thing you learn.

p.s. swooping is dangerous, don't ever kid yourself that it's not. This is my warning that it's highly possible you're going to get hurt, not like you didn't already know this.

Thank you very much for your advice, that's a lot for me to start thinking about and working on and I appreciate it. Every jump I'm learning new things and this will give me some more stuff to work on.

To NWFlyer:

I hang out high till everyone's on the ground before setting up my swoops.

Thanks guys! Perhaps the Sabre2 is a better canopy for me...I'm going to get a demo some time and see what I think.

[davelepka 4]

Look friend, you're just mistaken if you think that at 200 jumps you have maxed out anything, or have dialed in anything. It's just not happening.

I know for a fact that at least 30 or 40 of those jumps were not hop n pops or dedicated to canopy flight. It's called AFF, and student canopies, and in case your math skills match your canopy skills, that means that 20% of your jumps were not canopy related, and I'm being generous with my numbers.

Here's the reality, you seem to think you have this figured out, you're going about it the right way, but honestly everything you posted has been to the contrary.

Canopy chioce - very poor. The Stilettos was designed for jumpers with 500+ jumps, and is commonly known as NOT being a good modern swooping canopy for the jumper looking to move to an x-brace canopy. The real bitch for you is that this info is not related to jump numbers or hop n pops, just doing your homework. It looks like you didn't do your homework.

Downwind 90s? - You really think that the way to get ready for a 180 is to move your 90s to downwind? That's retarded. Either way you look at it, your ground speed will be higher, be it from a downwind 90 or an into the wind 180. The difference is that the 180 has a limited amount of increase in speed, while the downwinder is only limited by the wind speed of the day. I'm not sure where you got this idea, but it sucks.

No flare on your downwinder - again, this is simply a fucntion of airspeed running out while ground speed remains, it's not rocket science. You clearly did not understrand this before you started doing downwinders, despite your claim to have taken many canopy course, and that you are dedicated to canopy flight. Remember the part about doing your homework from the paragraph about canopy selection? It's back, and it's biting you in the ass again. It doesn't take jumps to research or understand aerodynamics, but it does take an understanding of aerodynamics to swoop. See your mistake?

Where does this leave us? Well, I'll tell you how I see it, and you may not give a shit, but the bitch of it is that I'm usually right about this stuff.

Let's take all these factors -

Jumping a camera right at 200 jumps (the generall accepted starting point.

Jumping a Stiletto when you're well below the reccomended jump numbers for the canopy.

Thinking that at 200 jumps you have anything figured out, maxed out, or dialed in.

Thinking that a downwinder is a good way to prepare for a bigger turn.

Not doing the book work to understand what it is your canopy is doing.

And last, being so stoked about your downwinder that you had to post it for everyone to see.

It all adds up to you pushing too hard, and thinking that you're 'the man'. You're letting your cock or your ego run the show, when your brain should be the one in charge. More times than not the only thing that shake you out of this is a good hard shot from mother earth. You may or may not walk away from this.

It may sound dramatic, but remember two things - the fisrt is that injuries under open canopies repersent the largest percentage of skydiving injuries. It didn't used to be this way, but canopies and what we do with them has changed, and now this is the way of the world.

The second thing to remember, I'm almost always right about this stuff.


My last point, where you insist that these are your choices, and your risk, you openly admit that your directional control was poor, and that you needed to manuver to avoid a bush, all the while swooping through a landing area full of jumpers who made enough good choices to land safely. Now they are at risk from you taking them out.


So you don't want me to be a dick? I'm not. This is the most constructive advice you're going to get. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Fast 0]

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It all adds up to you pushing too hard, and thinking that you're 'the man'. You're letting your cock or your ego run the show, when your brain should be the one in charge. More times than not the only thing that shake you out of this is a good hard shot from mother earth. You may or may not walk away from this.

It may sound dramatic, but remember two things - the fisrt is that injuries under open canopies repersent the largest percentage of skydiving injuries. It didn't used to be this way, but canopies and what we do with them has changed, and now this is the way of the world.

The second thing to remember, I'm almost always right about this stuff.


My last point, where you insist that these are your choices, and your risk, you openly admit that your directional control was poor, and that you needed to manuver to avoid a bush, all the while swooping through a landing area full of jumpers who made enough good choices to land safely. Now they are at risk from you taking them out.


So you don't want me to be a dick? I'm not. This is the most constructive advice you're going to get. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. For anyone reading my post, I was hoping to get most of this across w/o being too harsh so he might actually listen.

I'm not a huge fan of people getting hurt!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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Look friend, you're just mistaken if you think that at 200 jumps you have maxed out anything, or have dialed in anything. It's just not happening.

I know for a fact that at least 30 or 40 of those jumps were not hop n pops or dedicated to canopy flight. It's called AFF, and student canopies, and in case your math skills match your canopy skills, that means that 20% of your jumps were not canopy related, and I'm being generous with my numbers.

Here's the reality, you seem to think you have this figured out, you're going about it the right way, but honestly everything you posted has been to the contrary.

Canopy chioce - very poor. The Stilettos was designed for jumpers with 500+ jumps, and is commonly known as NOT being a good modern swooping canopy for the jumper looking to move to an x-brace canopy. The real bitch for you is that this info is not related to jump numbers or hop n pops, just doing your homework. It looks like you didn't do your homework.

Downwind 90s? - You really think that the way to get ready for a 180 is to move your 90s to downwind? That's retarded. Either way you look at it, your ground speed will be higher, be it from a downwind 90 or an into the wind 180. The difference is that the 180 has a limited amount of increase in speed, while the downwinder is only limited by the wind speed of the day. I'm not sure where you got this idea, but it sucks.

No flare on your downwinder - again, this is simply a fucntion of airspeed running out while ground speed remains, it's not rocket science. You clearly did not understrand this before you started doing downwinders, despite your claim to have taken many canopy course, and that you are dedicated to canopy flight. Remember the part about doing your homework from the paragraph about canopy selection? It's back, and it's biting you in the ass again. It doesn't take jumps to research or understand aerodynamics, but it does take an understanding of aerodynamics to swoop. See your mistake?

Where does this leave us? Well, I'll tell you how I see it, and you may not give a shit, but the bitch of it is that I'm usually right about this stuff.

Let's take all these factors -

Jumping a camera right at 200 jumps (the generall accepted starting point.

Jumping a Stiletto when you're well below the reccomended jump numbers for the canopy.

Thinking that at 200 jumps you have anything figured out, maxed out, or dialed in.

Thinking that a downwinder is a good way to prepare for a bigger turn.

Not doing the book work to understand what it is your canopy is doing.

And last, being so stoked about your downwinder that you had to post it for everyone to see.

It all adds up to you pushing too hard, and thinking that you're 'the man'. You're letting your cock or your ego run the show, when your brain should be the one in charge. More times than not the only thing that shake you out of this is a good hard shot from mother earth. You may or may not walk away from this.

It may sound dramatic, but remember two things - the fisrt is that injuries under open canopies repersent the largest percentage of skydiving injuries. It didn't used to be this way, but canopies and what we do with them has changed, and now this is the way of the world.

The second thing to remember, I'm almost always right about this stuff.


My last point, where you insist that these are your choices, and your risk, you openly admit that your directional control was poor, and that you needed to manuver to avoid a bush, all the while swooping through a landing area full of jumpers who made enough good choices to land safely. Now they are at risk from you taking them out.


So you don't want me to be a dick? I'm not. This is the most constructive advice you're going to get. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Well, dude. I'd like to explain a couple of the points you've hit on to defend myself but I don't feel like perpetuating an argument here. I've simply asked for advice and now I have it. Thank you for your input.

[Fast 0]

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Well, dude. I'd like to explain a couple of the points you've hit on to defend myself but I don't feel like perpetuating an argument here. I've simply asked for advice and now I have it. Thank you for your input.

Don't run off thinking my post is advice for you to go push it more. I had a lot of questions in my post that I haven't seen answered. I also didn't give you any type of technique or information on how to do things.

That's the kind of stuff you ought to be expected to get from a local mentor, though in thinking about it, whoever said to you that going up and doing downwinds was a good idea, you might want to stop listening to and find someone else.

and for what it's worth, I didn't even start doing double fronts till i had 150 jumps. I jumped a [email protected] through like, 500 jumps and a [email protected] through 1000 jumps. To give you some idea of what taking your time to learn things means.


Edit to add: furthermore, coming on here and saying "I was looking for advice and now I have it so fuck you" basically pisses me off. It's not the kind of reply that I would expect from someone. If a jumper at my DZ was giving that kind of attitude, they wouldn't be swooping, at least not with any help from me.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[vdschoor 0]

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Looking for some advice, or constructive criticism rather, on my 90 downwind swoop:

I am going to jump in with most of the other advice already given, and add something to it..

Deciding to start swooping at 200 jumps, I took a different approach, and to each their own. It wasn't until about 400 jumps that I started to work on "faster landings" I wouldn't call them swoops just yet ;)

Anyways.. at that point, I could put my canopy down whereever I wanted (a Triathlon 190 at the time) in whatever wind conditions, but mostly into the wind. I could land downwind no problem though.

Here's where I have an issue with your downwind swooping:

You seem to be going all the way across the landing area TOWARDS an obstacle (those bushes)
That shows very poor decision making skills to me.. go do your downwind swoops, but swoop straight down the landing area, and not all the way across it towards an object.
You were VERY close to them too.. you camera has a wide angle, and it shows close on the camera.. Why??

Work on accuracy.. put the canopy down exactly where you plan to put it down, THAT my friend is the true skill of landing a parachute.. everyone can land a parachute, some land it fast, some slow, but canopy control shows that you can land it at 100mph and STILL put it down exactly where you wanted it to, AWAY from obstacles..

just my 2 cts.. don't hurt yourself please..

[davelepka 4]

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Well, dude. I'd like to explain a couple of the points you've hit on

Please note that I did not ask any questions, nor am I seeking an explanation. You posted your bit, and asked what we thought. Now you know what I think.

I do have one question, however, is the DZO where you jump aware of your situation? Let's keep in mind that igorance does not imply consent, what would the response be if you approached him or her and said, "I wanted you to know that I have one year in the sport, and 200-ish jumps. I am jumping a Stiletto, and currently doing 90 degree downwind hookturns in preparation for doing 180 turns. Is this OK with you?"

I'm sure somebody around here either knows, or even is, the DZO up at Fingerlakes, so we could find out for sure what the response would be, but I'm just wondering what you think the response would be if you posed that exact question.

[davelepka 4]

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is the DZO where you jump aware of your situation? Let's keep in mind that igorance does not imply consent, what would the response be if you approached him or her and said, "I wanted you to know that I have one year in the sport, and 200-ish jumps. I am jumping a Stiletto, and currently doing 90 degree downwind hookturns in preparation for doing 180 turns. Is this OK with you?"

You know what, I changed my mind. Don't answer the question, just think about what the answer would be.

Be honest with yourself.

[frost 1]

SPAWNmaster, do this. Bookmark this thread. In whatever electronic personal organizer tool you use, set a reminder: On June 19th, 2014 - come back to this thread and re-read your own comments, as well as comments of the people that answered you.

Hopefully by that time you will have a good amount of jumps and enough experience to recognize the silliness of this banal and sophomoric debate. From asking advice on your swoops on the internet forums, to finding all the "right" excuses why you're doing what you're doing despite the voice of reason and experience, to thinking that you "MAXED out" your canopy after 200 jumps... everything here is just silly, and hopefully you will see it then.

For now, try to attend some proper training courses on canopy piloting. If not immediately available to you, locate an experienced and well respected pilot in your area. Ask him to work with you as much as you can. It's worth traveling and paying for this knowledge - it WILL save your life.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

I'm not sure why this has become so heated, I had no intention of pissing everyone off.

Please don't make any assumptions about my attitude in real life because of what I am replying here...I try not to post shit on DZ.com because most experienced guys find a way to flame everyone who is not as high and mighty.

I just figured I could get some advice and I did, and I appreciate the entire range of advice given not just the stuff you may be thinking I wanted to hear or whatever.

Derrick I'll go ahead and answer your questions-

1) I have practiced as many combination of input techniques as possible. Up high and down low, ranging from no brakes sharp riser turn to wide and slower carves gaining speed...using harness, toggles, risers, etc.

2) I am not landing on rears yet, I have heard in person and read a lot of mixed opinions about this and am not quite comfortable with it yet in the context of swooping. I could've landed them no problem on my previous canopy and this is something I intend to have completely dialled before changing canopy or downsizing again.

3) 9/10 times my accuracy is exactly where I want it to be. Obviously this is not perfection but something I am still striving for and intend to have nailed before changing canopy or downsizing again.

I am mostly hitting the gates where and how I want it to be but something I am currently working on, of course. The main issue I am seeing is that the recovery arc of the stiletto is quite quick (as mentioned by someone else I think) so I find myself planing out higher in some cases (which is better than too low, obviously). I'd rather start too high and try and juice as much dive possible to get where I want rather than start the swoop too low and relying on the canopy plane me out on time or have to dig out of the corner, etc.

4) All of my high altitude openings are solos so I have the whole sky for myself in those cases. Also, when I'm doing any swooping or canopy practicing in general I always wait for the rest of traffic to be ON THE GROUND. I think this is kind of a no brainer...but you don't know unless you ask I suppose.

5) Regarding your answer about my flaring, having thought about it before posting the ground speed issue was what I figured. I understood this component of downwind landing in general (canopy 101) but since there are a lot of variables involved in swooping, figured I'd get some clarity from the pros. Thanks for confirming.

And I guess although you didn't ask about this I'll just put this out to everyone involved in this thread:

My overall "strategy" in progressing is to master the entire range of my canopy's performance at every level, so part of that for me is being able to swoop downwind and know the performance of my canopy in the 90 degree config before going to 180. I'm not sure what part of getting a more wholesome perspective on canopy flight is "retarded" as someone put it but that's what I'm trying to do.

I'd appreciate if those who are giving more heated responses kind of cool off, no reason to get pissy, I'm trying to appreciate your advices and heed the wisdom here but it's harder to when you cram it down my throat. I get it, your saving my life. Now get off your high horse.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Quote

SPAWNmaster, do this. Bookmark this thread. In whatever electronic personal organizer tool you use, set a reminder: On June 19th, 2014 - come back to this thread and re-read your own comments, as well as comments of the people that answered you.

Hopefully by that time you will have a good amount of jumps and enough experience to recognize the silliness of this banal and sophomoric debate. From asking advice on your swoops on the internet forums, to finding all the "right" excuses why you're doing what you're doing despite the voice of reason and experience, to thinking that you "MAXED out" your canopy after 200 jumps... everything here is just silly, and hopefully you will see it then.

For now, try to attend some proper training courses on canopy piloting. If not immediately available to you, locate an experienced and well respected pilot in your area. Ask him to work with you as much as you can. It's worth traveling and paying for this knowledge - it WILL save your life.

Will do, frost. Thank you.

[ficus 0]

A couple things:

1) Dump the Stiletto. Seriously. If you want to learn to swoop, that parachute is not going to do you any favors. You will get tired of whale watching and start turning lower and be somewhat in the corner all the time, always stabbing out.

This is why your setup sucked in the video you posted. You know that if you had gone ahead and turned to final in the correct place, you would have planed out at 50 feet. So you took it too deep, made a slightly >90 degree turn, and flew across the wind line, potentially cutting off anyone else on final behind you. You may have been the last one down, but this is a terrible habit to develop.

Flying that Stiletto, you won't develop the mental process of flying through your recovery arc, seeing the line, and making adjustments, because you have no time in which to do it. Get a Sabre2 or something like it.

2) Be careful with downwinders. They alter your sight picture such that you will think you are higher in the arc than you are because of the extra forward push you get from the tailwind. It is very easy to get in the corner, and worse, not realize it. Combine this with the fact that you are already erring on the low side with that short-arc parachute, and trouble lies ahead.

3) Spend some time digging through old posts on dz.com and realize that these guys are at your throat right off the bat because you are the 5000th guy to make essentially this exact post.


Keep at the 90, it is a more productive turn to learn from (IMO) than the 180. And the pattern is significantly easier to fly both from an accuracy and traffic perspective.

Good luck

Ficus

[TaylorC 0]

Take it from someone who was in your place 2-3 years ago arguing the same bullshit and coming up with excuses. Just shut up and listen to these people. Look back at my posts from years ago and you will see me doing the same and i was 100% wrong and only realized that a year ago. There not trying to stop you from learning, there trying to help you learn more.

[dharma1976 0]

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Take it from someone who was in your place 2-3 years ago arguing the same bullshit and coming up with excuses. Just shut up and listen to these people. Look back at my posts from years ago and you will see me doing the same and i was 100% wrong and only realized that a year ago. There not trying to stop you from learning, there trying to help you learn more.

You have some great teachers telling you to take your time.

+++++ on ditching the stilletto it has a positive recovery arc, sabre 2 will teach you more of what you want to know

definitely get canopy coaching as much of it as you can afford

set up some gates and learn to swoop them you will see how dialed in you are by doing that.

If you have someone closer to you who can be your mentor pay attention and dont be as defensive as you were here. Take the cotton out of your ears and shove it down your throat you might learn something.

And remember this, it will hurt one day.

Dave

D

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

For what it's worth I will heed the consensus here. You make sense. I guess it'll be interesting explaining to my S&TA and instructors why I'm getting yet another canopy...

As far as that's concerned, would something like a similar sized jedei do for me? The problem is money...I will be jobless in about 3 weeks, am moving internationally, planning/paying for my upcoming wedding and simply cannot afford a Sabre2 or Safire2 (even used they run upwards of 1k which is way out of my limit). Note that I have jumped safire2's before and think they are pretty rad, would definitely get one if I could afford it.

I'm not looking for a shortcut, but at least for now would be unable to pay for those canopies. Used jedeis seem to run cheaper and from what I understand have a good amount of dive which seems to be the idea behind me getting a more "swoop orientated" canopy.

Am I off target still?

What other canopies within the 400-900 (used) price range would suit me?

[PhreeZone 15]

Jedi's are a hard canopy to tell what is going on, during the entire production run they evolved. The design was constantly refined and no two are always going to fly identical. I've flown some that are more Stiletto-ish and then I've flown some that are a bit more Katana-ish. With out knowing a lot about a perticilular Jedi its hard to know how it will fly and if its a good choice or not.

Honestly with the situation you have coming up I'd put the HP canopy flight on hold for a bit since it seems like even currency might be coming into play in the future and the last thing you want to be doing while uncurrent is HP canopy landings. To really learn a canopy is a 200-500 jump experience, I am still learning new things on my canopy and I've had it for 700 jumps now.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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Jedi's are a hard canopy to tell what is going on, during the entire production run they evolved. The design was constantly refined and no two are always going to fly identical. I've flown some that are more Stiletto-ish and then I've flown some that are a bit more Katana-ish. With out knowing a lot about a perticilular Jedi its hard to know how it will fly and if its a good choice or not.

Honestly with the situation you have coming up I'd put the HP canopy flight on hold for a bit since it seems like even currency might be coming into play in the future and the last thing you want to be doing while uncurrent is HP canopy landings. To really learn a canopy is a 200-500 jump experience, I am still learning new things on my canopy and I've had it for 700 jumps now.

Very good point, you are probably right about that!

Thanks.