west33freefall 0 #1 June 24, 2008 I am starting to get extremely comfortable with my canopy and am try to experiment with new things. I usually land reletivly close to my mark everytime. but I have a few questions. -What is the best way to lengthen your ground track to reach a landing spot Under 1,000ft? And what is the best way to get down faster/but safe under 1,000ft? - When using dive loops where to put the toggles? Keep them in your hands, wrist, or restow? -When using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? - What is the most risky situation you can put your self in with your canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #2 June 24, 2008 Quote-What is the best way to lengthen your ground track to reach a landing spot Under 1,000ft? Depends on your position from your target and winds... QuoteAnd what is the best way to get down faster/but safe under 1,000ft? Depends on the traffic... Quote- When using dive loops where to put the toggles? Keep them in your hands, wrist, or restow? Breaks around your fist, secured by 2 fingers, dive loops pulled by 2 other fingers. You should keep them. Quote-When using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? Depends on the situation. Quote- What is the most risky situation you can put your self in with your canopy? You can make a flying canopy a not flying one..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #3 June 24, 2008 QuoteI am starting to get extremely comfortable with my canopy and am try to experiment with new things. Comfortable isn't the same as competent. Keep things simple for the time being... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
west33freefall 0 #4 June 24, 2008 My canopy is rather docile but it lets me play a bit as well and I have to do some of this stuff just for the A license any wayl. I rather take advice from others than attempt blind for the first time. All my instructors were rather confident in my canopy skills which makes me feel rather confident in my canopy skills. I want to know things not to do as well so I can avoid situations will trying things out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #5 June 24, 2008 Most of these questions can be answered by respected instructors or coaches, if you don't have those around then seek coaching. QuoteWhat is the best way to lengthen your ground track to reach a landing spot Under 1,000ft? And what is the best way to get down faster/but safe under 1,000ft? No wind/ light winds - rear risers with your toggles in your hands Head wind - full flight and getting your body small Down wind - brakes and making your body big. *Note - under 1000' is not the area to try new things like double fronts really close to the ground. try all new manuevers above 2000' before you start bringing it closer to the ground. QuoteWhen using dive loops where to put the toggles? Keep them in your hands, wrist, or restow? Keep them some place that you can use them immediately and effectively if that's around your wrist then great but you should always have them in your hands QuoteWhen using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? When practicing, always keep toggles in your hands. however there could be emergency situations where you find yourself without toggles (broken steering line) Quote- What is the most risky situation you can put your self in with your canopy? Doing stupid shit close to the ground (ie low turns, s-turns, sitting in brakes over the HP landing area, ect). try all new maneuvers or inputs up high and out of canopy traffic. lastly get coaching and keep asking questionsSlip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
west33freefall 0 #6 June 24, 2008 Thanks, I do not try anything new below 1500ft, but why I asked about things under 1000ft, is just so if I am coming in to land and am like 1000-500ft high and notice I am a little short or a little long how I could help myself get a little closer with out doing anything stupid. and with the dive loops i wasn't sure if pulling on the dive loops with the brakes in hand, pulled the brakes down as well, or enough to put you in a bad situation. Thanks for your help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 June 24, 2008 Your best bet for building accuracy is to not worry about any voodoo tricks to make your canopy land in the peas, which could sacrifice your and other's safety. Your best bet is to work on your landing pattern. Fly your pattern as planned, as long as it is safe to do so, then you can adjust your pattern accordingly for the next jump. Eventually you'll learn how to setup your pattern properly for the winds of the day.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #8 June 25, 2008 Quote Down wind - brakes and making your body big. Why would you want to make your body big? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #9 June 25, 2008 Low jump numbers or not, this I feel I can confidently answer. In this scenario the wind is moderately strong and coming from behind you so it's blowing you back to the DZ. Going to deep brakes does eliminate the canopy's 'natural' forward speed but also minimises altitude loss, therefore maximising the time that the wind can blow you back and increasing your range. To profit even more from this effect, you try to catch as much wind as possible by presenting a large profile. Keep in mind though that you'll have to experiment to see which method/how much brakes will increase your range the most. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guinness_fr 0 #10 June 25, 2008 Unfortunately, this is wrong: When you are flying do you feel the wind in your back or coming from in front of you? The answer to this question shows that by getting 'big' you are increasing drag, which hinders the performance of your wing: in all cases you should always try to reduce drag when trying to glide further... Edited to add: Even in deep brakes you will never eliminate your forward speed in the relative wind, unless you're stalling of course, but that is not the point of this thread... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #11 June 25, 2008 I don't understand.Should I have said "greatly reduce" your speed? And the question was about going downwind, ie being upwind relative to the DZ, right? So presenting a larger profile will help you make it back. When going upwind, ie being downwind from the DZ I agree that you should try to reduce drag by rpesenting a smaller profile. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guinness_fr 0 #12 June 25, 2008 This has probably been beaten to death a thousand times in this forum, but the thing is that you are flying within a mass of air, the fact that this wind is moving relative to the ground changes your trajectory accordingly (i.e. add the vector of your flight within the air mass to that of the moving mass of air to have your speed relative to the ground). Now making yourself big increases your drag but does not make your canopy fly any better, does it? In other words: in still air, when flying in brakes, do you stay longer in the air by making yourself big or is your wing less efficient due to the added drag? If you do not stay longer in the air by making yourself big (which I presume is the case), then it doesn't matter whether you are upwind or downwind: when you are flying the wind is never pushing your back, never, unless you're in a stall. Does that make sense? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #13 June 25, 2008 I agree with you. I've been guilty of thinking the older way myself for sure. I think the 'confusing' part comes when we think in terms of flying relative to another canopy (where being big can help) vs prolonging airtime. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #14 June 25, 2008 QuoteWhy would you want to make your body big? whoops, i think i need to re-read my posts before i post. thanks for catching that.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #15 June 25, 2008 QuoteThanks, I do not try anything new below 1500ft, but why I asked about things under 1000ft, is just so if I am coming in to land and am like 1000-500ft high and notice I am a little short or a little long how I could help myself get a little closer with out doing anything stupid. and with the dive loops i wasn't sure if pulling on the dive loops with the brakes in hand, pulled the brakes down as well, or enough to put you in a bad situation. Thanks for your help. Any of these scenarious can be handled safely by modifying your patern in flight instead of using additional control inputs. Extend legs of the pattern, shorten legs of the pattern, cut the corner, round out a corner. I suggest you get yourself a copy of Brian's book. It is a great read."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guinness_fr 0 #16 June 26, 2008 Quote I've been guilty of thinking the older way myself for sure. Me too, I finally understood why that was wrong when I first discovered this forum and started reading all the existing threads, 5 or 6 years ago... You're right that making yourself big can be useful when trying to fly with another canopy: it does alter the way you fly but usually by decreasing the performance of your wing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #17 June 26, 2008 Thanks for that. Very useful information.The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #18 June 26, 2008 Quote To profit even more from this effect, you try to catch as much wind as possible by presenting a large profile. No. Your canopy is going to have whatever its foward speed is in no-wind conditions plus the wind vector regardless of which way it's pointed. Being small will maintain more forward speed (beter lift:drag ratio) for the same sink rate so you'll go farther even with a tail wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #19 July 1, 2008 QuoteQuote-When using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? Quote Depends on the situation. Unless you've already deeply, deeply fucked up (ie. stuck toggles and too low to cutaway) why would you ever want to try and land on rears with the brakes stowed?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites azureriders 0 #20 August 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote-When using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? Quote Depends on the situation. Unless you've already deeply, deeply fucked up (ie. stuck toggles and too low to cutaway) why would you ever want to try and land on rears with the brakes stowed? I agree that a stuck toggle is about the only reason for this, but I would not address that as deeply f@#$ed up. I have landed a stuck toggle on rears, after making that decsion with plenty of altitude to have done otherwise. With a docile canopy, plenty of rear riser practice, and a good PLF, I dusted off with not a scratch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
azureriders 0 #20 August 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote-When using rear risers to land brakes stay stowed or un stowed? Quote Depends on the situation. Unless you've already deeply, deeply fucked up (ie. stuck toggles and too low to cutaway) why would you ever want to try and land on rears with the brakes stowed? I agree that a stuck toggle is about the only reason for this, but I would not address that as deeply f@#$ed up. I have landed a stuck toggle on rears, after making that decsion with plenty of altitude to have done otherwise. With a docile canopy, plenty of rear riser practice, and a good PLF, I dusted off with not a scratch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
