How Many Do You Stand Up?

[flyhi 24]

I have been tracking my landings for the last 300 jumps and for that number, I have stood up 264 or 88%. Those which I did not stand up included the hook slides, butt slides, catch-a-rut, face plants, and first jumps on FL spring mornings (Doing the dew. About 50% on those.)

My worst stretch was 1 for 5 after I had my canopy relined. Currently on a 14 for 14 run. I jump primarily at two DZ's. DZ1 allows nothing over a 180 unless you get out low and DZ2 is large enough to land away from others and do a 270 or more. Slightly better percentage at DZ1, although landing way out introduces a new level of challenge; it ain't flat.

During these 300 jumps I have started to use more rears and trying to use harness input for at least the last 90 degrees. Neither has had a significant impact on the numbers.

Heard two friends talking a while back about the skiing season. One said he didn't fall down all year.

The other asked, "So, you didn't learn anything?"

Your numbers?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[BirdWoman 0]

I can tell you how many I have not stood up in the last 400 jumps or so, and that I could count on one hand. Those were ones that I chose to slide in due to an injured knee. I don't know if I would agree with the statement of "So you haven't learned anything?" The matter of fact is that if you know how to fly your parachute well, there is no reason why you can't maximize your power (especially on a high performance landing) to not have to run it out. It's simply a matter of knowing how long to stay in your swoop and when/how to transition to your toggles to finnish your flare. "So your haven't learned anything by not falling on your face?" Yes I have. I have learned how to fly my wing in all wind conditions so I don't have to fall on my face or run like Road Runner.

Hang in there...you'll get it figured out.

"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me

[scootstevens 0]

Well it's obviously going to depend on the type of pilot and his or her goals as well as the canopy. A competent intermediate pilot on a docile canopy might stand up more landings than a experienced bad ass swooper because the nature of their landings are completely different. I don't agree that you aren't learning anything if you aren't making mistakes, but from my experience, i will say that when you are trying to progress with swooping and high speed approaches, you'll never stand them all up!!!! The odd bail is inevidable, when that slide comes to an abrupt end! Just my 2 cents.


Edit: To answer your question directly, I'll still dialing in my skills and probably "slide one in" 1/5. Im reckless tho.

[skydivejeff 0]

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The matter of fact is that if you know how to fly your parachute well, there is no reason why you can't maximize your power (especially on a high performance landing) to not have to run it out. It's simply a matter of knowing how long to stay in your swoop and when/how to transition to your toggles to finnish your flare.

This is a GREAT point!
Generally, if you use every last little bit of power left above your head, your step off to the ground should be as smooth as getting out of a chair and walking away. Now saying that, it doesnt always happen for whatever the reason (ie:too much riser/toggle input, a harness shift, whatever) and in which case if you are not comfortable with the speed, butt slide it...there is NO SHAME in that! A good rule of thumb when planed out surfing is that when you make an input with a toggle or riser, make the opposite input by raising your knees and legs completely. Bottom line in my eyes is: If your not comfortable with the speed or some other factor of the landing, you need to do one of 2 things...either upsize your canopy to something you can maneuver consistantly OR accept the fact that you will be replacing the butt of your jumpsuit regularly. Good luck and BE SAFE!
Jefe

[stevesimms 0]

I only have 42 jumps, but I pride my self that I have a 100% stand up rate so far... Started on a 285, then 235, 190, 185, and now jumping a 170 with a WL of 1:1.

Im still waiting for the day when i faceplant...

[keithbar 1]

ahhhhhh grasshopper just wait the day shall come.

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[billvon 2,400]

>Your numbers?

I make about 250 a year. I generally stand up between 249 and 250 a year.

[davelepka 4]

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I only have 42 jumps, but I pride my self that I have a 100% stand up rate so far... Started on a 285, then 235, 190, 185, and now jumping a 170 with a WL of 1:1.

This is not an area where pride should apply. Is it nice that you stand them up? Sure. Should you develop a sense of pride connected to standing up landings? No.

What you should be proud of is landing safely, without injury to yourself or others. When you consider standing up a point of pride, you skew your judgement on future landings in terms of you handle yourself. Many times, the best choice is simply to go down. PLF, or slide in, or whatever you can come up with is often times the better of two evils. Trying to stand up when the time isn't right is a sure way to injury.

[stevesimms 0]

You're right Davelepka.

I mean the sense of pride, in the way that I handle the canopy on landings, and during flight.. with them being safe and responsible. Maybe I should have clarified that in the beginning.

[AggieDave 6]

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if you use every last little bit of power left above your head, your step off to the ground should be as smooth as getting out of a chair and walking away.

I found that to be true up to about the 2.3:1 wingloading range. I've found in the 2.5-2.6:1 range that without a really smooth surface to slide on my feet with, its safer to do a "baseball" type slide. The speed that is still left over when I've "run out of canopy" is just way too fast to run out safely.

After nearly hurting myself a couple of times due to getting dumped forward while sliding on my feet (uneven ground), I've found it safer to slide.

If I have a 10mph headwind its easy to stand up a good swoop or if I don't do my turn just right and don't generate the power I normally generate, then I don't get enough speed for it to matter. I didn't max out the canopy and I run out of speed when I'm running out of canopy so its really easy to stand up.

That's also if I'm not dragging a whole lot of water. If there's some monster dragging, then its much easier to slow the canopy down enough to pop and land on my feet with no problem.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TAXIWAY 0]

Hell I have alot of jumps and land on my ass alot. lol Its usually because I am going to fast to stand up so I slide in on my ass.

The key is to land safely it doesn't matter if you stand every landing up or not.

[AggieDave 6]

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The key is to land safely it doesn't matter if you stand every landing up or not.

Thank you! That is my point.

Too many low time jumpers get caught up in having to stand up *every* landing that they create bad habits and create situations in which their safety is put at jeopardy.

My personal favorite is this fear of landing cross or downwind because they will be traveling a little faster and may then have to PLF or slide in. Then the resulting low turn and injury trying to chase the windsock.

These bad habits are reinforced by people at the DZ in terms of having to stand each landing up. Personally I really like complimenting a low time jumper's really good PLF then a stand up landing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TAXIWAY 0]

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The key is to land safely it doesn't matter if you stand every landing up or not.

Thank you! That is my point.

Too many low time jumpers get caught up in having to stand up *every* landing that they create bad habits and create situations in which their safety is put at jeopardy.

My personal favorite is this fear of landing cross or downwind because they will be traveling a little faster and may then have to PLF or slide in. Then the resulting low turn and injury trying to chase the windsock.

These bad habits are reinforced by people at the DZ in terms of having to stand each landing up. Personally I really like complimenting a low time jumper's really good PLF then a stand up landing.

I love downwinders but often dont even try to stand up. Cross wind in fun too. I think every one should know how to land crosswind and downwind(on calm days)

When people try to stand it up when they should slide or plf are the ones that get hurt. Nothing like reaching for the ground to break your fall and break your wrist instead.

[hackish 8]

I think I've stood up the last 60 or so. This included a few intentional cross-wind landings and a bunch of no-wind.

There is a certain amount of sadness associated with having to intentionally have a non-standup. I'd like to jump a PC by the end of this year so that will mean doing some training and I think that will include at least 25 PLF's.

On one side it will be good to get very proficient with a PLF but on the other I know people will be asking me why I couldn't "stand that one up"

-Michael

[skydivejeff 0]

When you have to PLF to save your butt because you screwed up, YES you might want to concern yourself with standing up and learn what you did wrong to not do it again. However, if you are sliding (not a PLF) safely and intentionally which A LOT of us do when flying a 2.1:1 or greater, than get over it...Again, there is no shame in that. The only ones that will talk crap are the ones that dont know anything about a high performance landing! And frankly, I dont care what they think.

[crashtested 0]

Taxiway, by no means is this a dig at you personaly,.... but it comes in with a bug bare of mine

Why are people taking downwinders or cross winders so often, i know that there are no jump masters in america, but ffs do people not shout out what the fuck there doing b4 there on the plane, i understand if your number 49 in a load of 50 that problems do arise.. but jeez when did landing consistently into wind become such a problem?????? I have only landed cross winders or downwinders when i have predeclared them to the rest of the people on the load, during these times i have either jumped first or last so i dont mess up the other 14 others on my load?? ( depending on styles going out of the plane, flat, sit, head down, what ever)

Is it ignorance or just shit poor training in the us of a,

Thers no excuse for it, no reason why (unless training or under your reserve) that this should happen...

I could not give a toss what anyone says about my opinion on this, its just bad jump managment in my book and gets people killed or in hospital..

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I could not give a toss what anyone says about my opinion on this, its just bad jump managment in my book and gets people killed or in hospital..

You're quite right, your attitude does.

Downwinders and crosswinders, on the other hand, when done in planned, and safe fashion, don't.

"Land into the wind at all costs" mentality has killed a number of people over the years.

I really wish people would read through the last 10 years worth of incident reports. There's a lot to learn there.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[danielcroft 2]

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I really wish people would read through the last 10 years worth of incident reports. There's a lot to learn there.

I have

[TAXIWAY 0]

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Taxiway, by no means is this a dig at you personaly,.... but it comes in with a bug bare of mine

Why are people taking downwinders or cross winders so often, i know that there are no jump masters in america, but ffs do people not shout out what the fuck there doing b4 there on the plane, i understand if your number 49 in a load of 50 that problems do arise.. but jeez when did landing consistently into wind become such a problem?????? I have only landed cross winders or downwinders when i have predeclared them to the rest of the people on the load, during these times i have either jumped first or last so i dont mess up the other 14 others on my load?? ( depending on styles going out of the plane, flat, sit, head down, what ever)

Is it ignorance or just shit poor training in the us of a,

Thers no excuse for it, no reason why (unless training or under your reserve) that this should happen...

I could not give a toss what anyone says about my opinion on this, its just bad jump managment in my book and gets people killed or in hospital..

FYI I always delcair it on the plane before hand and its usually on hop-n-pops. When I do them I am usually the last one in the air. I will open at 8000 to make sure I am last.
Next time before you post why not think about all the different senerios.

Its more fun to go downwind. I did not say I do it while other people are in the air.

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

Taxiway is real good with letting other people know which way he is landing on hop n pops or when he pulls high, its just the correct thing to do. There has never been in my knowledge confusion as to which way he is landing on all the jumps I have done with him or him in the plane over the last year I have been at palatka

[crashtested 0]

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I could not give a toss what anyone says about my opinion on this, its just bad jump managment in my book and gets people killed or in hospital..

You're quite right, your attitude does.

Downwinders and crosswinders, on the other hand, when done in planned, and safe fashion, don't.

"Land into the wind at all costs" mentality has killed a number of people over the years.

I really wish people would read through the last 10 years worth of incident reports. There's a lot to learn there.

Blues,
Ian

ian, Its not the landing into wind, these guys died due to target fixation, which in turn has lead to loss of alti awareness.

Landing into wind will not kill you, fixating on a target with 1000 ft of altiude and still not being on your downwind leg however leads you into the senario of landing during a hard turn.

The fall circle comes back to confidence under canopy and how is your ability to read your height, fwd speed, decent rate, dz knowledge, outs etc....

Experiacnce does certainly help but working under pressure is key to this.

[crashtested 0]

As i posted, i was not calling you a twat taxiway, but the context was that downwinders should be under the right conditions and with everyones knowledge, if it is not practical to go downwind due to numbers of canopys out there or due to people following your landing patern, then People (unlike you who lets everyone know what your up to) need to be told in advance.

There are quite a few posts under landing priorites out on dz.com at the momment.

In my book, have a plan, make sure everyones on the same page, then falling disaster stick to it.