crossfire 2 or stiletto

[sugdad 0]

would like some input on theese 2 canopies most everyone at our dz jumps a stiletto, but have read some really good reviews on the xfire 2 can I get some opinions?

[PhreeZone 15]

Search the forums. Tons of info there for you.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dharma1976 0]

my opinion is this...

Crossfire 2 is a great canopy especially transitioning from a sabre 2.

I will follow that up by saying that you should learn that Sabre2 170 wring the shit out of it...

of course none of us can see you fly canopies on the internet, but I will say that you should probably spend a shitload more time on the sabre2 170, I was a fast learner and I still waited until I had 500 jumps to move to the crossfire2.

And finally I learned almost everything I know about swooping on a sabre2 170...

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[hparrish 0]

I'm sure this will make the PD diehards cry.........but the Stilleto is an old and outdated design. I'd think the Sabre II would be a superior design today. But I think the replacement technology for the Stilleto is the Katana.

To answer your specific question..........I think the Crossfire II is superior to the Stilleto if for no other reason than it is a more modern design.

[davelepka 4]

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I'm sure this will make the PD diehards cry.........but the Stilleto is an old and outdated design. I'd think the Sabre II would be a superior design today. But I think the replacement technology for the Stilleto is the Katana.

Nope, but thanks for playing.

OK, really though, you're almost right but not quite. The Stiletto is a fine canopy, and it performs exactly as intended. The age of the design, or the current state of technology has nothing to do with that.

This is a mistake that many make. As the top end of canopy performace goes up, people seem to raise the level of the bottom end to match. This is incorrect because even though the Velo and JVX have pushed the perofrmance level through the roof, the newbie jumper is the same newbie jumper we had in 1990. A 90's guy with 200 jumps still has the same number of jumps as a 2008 guy with 200 jumps.

My opinion of the Katana was it was a big step up from a Stiletto. When you call it 'replacement technongy', you make it sound as if the two canopies are intercahngable. There are many jumpers I would put under a Stiletto who I would not like to see under a Katana.

[hparrish 0]

Did you notice I recommended the Saber II, not the Katana? I agree the Katana is a step up in performance over the Stilleto. Not that I'm right, but I think PD designed it to replace the Stilleto.

I know allot of folks stand behind their Stilleto's but I think of them as their nickname implies...... Spinletto's. I'm not a huge fan of the Stilletto or its performance.

I also believe the Crossfire II is a superior wing, when compared to the Stilleto. Not only in high performance, but in more stable openings and a greater range in performance, from conservative to agressive.

[davelepka 4]

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Not that I'm right, but I think PD designed it to replace the Stilleto

I'm not so sure about that. They may have designed it to replace the Vengeance, which was also step up from the Stiletto, and eventually put out of production. Throughout the production of the Vengeance and Katana, the Stiletto remains available.

The Sabre for example, was clearly replaced by the Sabre 2, as the name implies, but more so because the Sabre is now out of production.

Also, I think the Katana was aimed more at the X-fire then the Stiletto. The X-fire is a more divey deisgn than the Stiletto, and PD needed a divey, not-Velocity, canopy.

As far as the OP goes, I'm way more interested in what you and I are talking about than another dude who's looking for a HP canopy at 200 jumps. I'm sure he thinks he's special for his own reasons, I would use the word 'special' in a different context.

[dragon2 0]

sabre 2.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[hparrish 0]

*** I'm not so sure about that. They may have designed it to replace the Vengeance, which was also step up from the Stiletto, and eventually put out of production. Throughout the production of the Vengeance and Katana, the Stiletto remains available. ***

Valid Point.


***As far as the OP goes, I'm way more interested in what you and I are talking about than another dude who's looking for a HP canopy at 200 jumps. ***

Another Valid Point.

[AggieDave 6]

If you want to be a badass swooper go buy a Sabre2 and fly the shit out of it.

You want to be a swooper who's behind his canopy and takes more jumps then his friends to be a good swooper? Get that XF2 or the Stiletto.

In another 1000 jumps you'll understand why everyone is telling you this. Its because most of us made the bad choice and it took us much longer to get to a certain skill level. Not only that but most of us have looked back and realized how absolutely purely lucky we were to make it without getting killed or killing someone else while on a canopy that was well beyond our ability but within our ego.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rhys 0]

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would like some input on theese 2 canopies

The stiletto is a fine canopy but has less than desirable opening characharistics and is very twitchy due to being heavily elliptical.

The crossfire and crossfire2 are great canopies with wonderful opening charachtaristics.

If you intend on swooping and/or jumping with video and stills then I highly recommend 'NOT' getting a Siletto.

The openings can be damaging to your spine with the extra weight on your head and the recovery arc is much shorter so you have to turn much lower on a stiletto than a crossfire of the same loading. this leaves much less room for error.

I have been to the Physio therapist 3 times due to stiletto (spinletto) openings. This was with a heavy top mount camera helmet.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[sugdad 0]

thanks for the input am ordering a new sabre 2

[dharma1976 0]

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If you want to be a badass swooper go buy a Sabre2 and fly the shit out of it.

You want to be a swooper who's behind his canopy and takes more jumps then his friends to be a good swooper? Get that XF2 or the Stiletto.

In another 1000 jumps you'll understand why everyone is telling you this. Its because most of us made the bad choice and it took us much longer to get to a certain skill level. Not only that but most of us have looked back and realized how absolutely purely lucky we were to make it without getting killed or killing someone else while on a canopy that was well beyond our ability but within our ego.

wow are we all getting better at letting people know this or what

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[frost 1]

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In another 1000 jumps you'll understand why everyone is telling you this. Its because most of us made the bad choice and it took us much longer to get to a certain skill level.

The intentions are great, but man... that is a funny statement, on many levels.

[JanuszPS 0]

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This is a mistake that many make. As the top end of canopy performace goes up, people seem to raise the level of the bottom end to match. This is incorrect because even though the Velo and JVX have pushed the perofrmance level through the roof, the newbie jumper is the same newbie jumper we had in 1990. A 90's guy with 200 jumps still has the same number of jumps as a 2008 guy with 200 jumps.

In general it is true, but everything is changing and the level/way of teaching and numbers of courses (e.g. canopy piloting) during the first 2 hundreds jumps can increase the skill level and understanding of the problem of the "modern 200 jumper" much higher in comparison with the"old time 200 jumper" 20 or 15 years ago. Also the subject (skydiving) is better recognized, now than before. Progression is everywhere, not only in schools, but this refers to everything.
Regs
JanuszPS
Edit:
I'm not saying that everybody can now jump everything after a few courses. Just the judgment needs to be done more carefully, not only fallowing by rough numbers.

Back to Poland... back home.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Yes and no.

The 'old days' the biggest problem was lack of knowledge. These days the biggest problem is 'over inflated egos' by those thinking that times have changed so much that basic progression steps no longer apply to them.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

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The intentions are great, but man... that is a funny statement, on many levels.

Yeah, I know. Someday I'll be as good as you, but I'm having to seek serious coaching (counseling).

For me my goals back when I were making those sorts of mistakes were to get to a skill level to jump a Xbraced canopy and to compete. I reached those goals, but by my estimates it was 2 years later then I should have. That's if I had listened to the experienced jumpers around me. Obviously I knew better then them (so I thought) and I nearly died under that Heatwave 170. Then under a XF2 149. Someday I'll post the video of a scary low hook I some how made it through uninjured.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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Did you notice I recommended the Saber II, not the Katana? I agree the Katana is a step up in performance over the Stilleto. Not that I'm right, but I think PD designed it to replace the Stilleto.

Kind of already been addressed, but I see so many people say exactly what you have here that I want to point out:

If you go to the PD website, they specifically say that the Katana is NOT a "Stiletto 2" and is NOT intended to replace the stiletto or be an updated design... it's a completely new and different canopy with a different target market. The Katana is inteded as a stepping stone toward a velocity or a very high-performance wing for people who want to swoop but don't want to go to a X-brace, whereas the stiletto is a more "all-around" canopy for the experienced canopy pilot. The niche of the Stiletto has changed, but a lot of people still think of it as what it was in the mid-90's.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[hobie331 0]

Take this for what it is worth from a guy with low jump numbers.
I started with a Sabre2 170 and did what one of the higher jump numbers guys here said and just rang the shit out of it. Only when I reached the point that it didn't scare me did I jump a smaller canopy. I jumped a friends Safire2 149 and it was love at first jump. The first 100 jumps I didn't do anything low until I felt I knew what could happen. Started to move into swooping then and only 90's. The thing about this canopy is that it recovers very quickly, which I like. So, maybe that is a thought.
BTW, I bought my Sabre2 170 from a guy who was banned from a DZ because he showed up with a Crossfire2 149. He was 240 lbs without gear and 250 jumps. Hmm, wonder why he was asked to jump elsewhere?
There's my two cents. Take it for what it's worth, two cents.

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.