huka551 0 #1 September 12, 2005 I am a total newbie with a very low wing loading, I watch people with tons of experience swoop and spiral. How is it that they don't hook in? How do you know what is too much so you don't kill yourself? Muff Brother 3723 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #2 September 12, 2005 QuoteI am a total newbie with a very low wing loading, I watch people with tons of experience swoop and spiral. How is it that they don't hook in? How do you know what is too much so you don't kill yourself? It takes a whole lot of practice (thousands of jumps): Years of slowly increasing aggressivity and slowly increasing wing loading, learning from experienced canopy pilots along the way. Canopy control schools are the best places for learning how to minimize risks. Even if you're a low-timer who's still working on getting straight-in approaches right every time, such schools can give you drills to work with up high. These drills can teach you about canopy flight and about how your canopy resonds to different inputs such as front/rear risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javip82 0 #3 September 12, 2005 I am also a newbie to swooping and I was wondering where in Florida can I get some good Swooping coaching? ____________________________________ You know what's out there. Take it, it's your's INMORTALITY!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #4 September 12, 2005 QuoteI am also a newbie to swooping I'm sorry, but as far as swooping goes, you're a newbie to flying a canopy in general. You need to hold off on swooping for another hundred jumps or so, spend some time under the same canopy, get to know it's ins and outs (and this takes a while). Then you may be ready to take that canopy to the next level. Note that I said 'may'. Learning the basics first, and getting to know a wing will let you learn faster and better when you do start swooping, the time you spend working up to that will serve you well for years to come. Or just rush through it, and take your chances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #5 September 12, 2005 QuoteI am a total newbie with a very low wing loading, I watch people with tons of experience swoop and spiral. How is it that they don't hook in? How do you know what is too much so you don't kill yourself? Training. There's always some one who knows more than you do and is a good teacher. You need video to get a unbiased perspective on what you're really doing. Experience. It takes 200-300 jumps under one canopy to get a feel for that canopy model in that size and 1000+ high performance landings to have those somewhat dialed in. Judgement. You don't swoop when you're not current, the winds/turbulence are off, or you have a bad setup. You plan your approach so that there are plenty of opportunities to correct problems along the way and so that you aren't too steep too close to the ground. You jump a larger canopy if currency or field elevation make that a good idea. Conservatism. You need to ease into things at new locations where the visual references and density altitude are different and on the first jumps of a day. You don't need an agressive turn to get a lot of speed. Dialing it back a notch in more stressful situations with spectators is a better idea than caving into Kodak courage. It's better to squeeze more performance out of a large canopy when everything is right than to be stuck with the speed and responsiveness of a small when when things aren't optimal. It's easier to recover from the ineveitable mistakes under a larger canopy and you're less likely to get hurt when you don't do a good job of that. You learn more if you stick with a canopy for longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bert_man 0 #6 September 12, 2005 And if you start doing them on your own, and you seem (to yourself) to be doing fine, don't get cocky. People like to use jump numbers as a concrete scale for determining whether your ready for something, and most beginners think that's bullshit. But if you find yourself 'progressing' from straight-in approaches to 180's in 40 jumps, even if you feel OK, you're probably wrong. I just learned this the other day when I found myself way too low, without any outs, on a turn that I shouldn't have been making in the first place. I managed to pull it out of my ass and only pound in lightly, but I had no more safety margin left. 5 more feet wouldve been really bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #7 September 13, 2005 Most important lesson if you want to swoop, is to know when not to swoop. Jurgen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #8 September 13, 2005 QuoteI am also a newbie to swooping and I was wondering where in Florida can I get some good Swooping coaching? A good place to start is here: http://freedomofflight.tv/public/index.php?which=canopy That's just an introduction though... after that you need 1:1 coaching from the ground, with video. You can find individuals who are qualified to do this at any of the large DZ's in FL. Just ask at manifest, letting them know you're looking for some high performance canopy coaching. It helps to get some coaching for a day or two... then work for a few weeks on your own... then get some more coacing with vid to see how you're improving and to pick up some new goals/techniques from the coach... then work on your own some more, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javip82 0 #9 September 13, 2005 thank you for the advice. ____________________________________ You know what's out there. Take it, it's your's INMORTALITY!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #10 September 14, 2005 QuoteMost important lesson if you want to swoop, is to know when not to swoop. Jurgen Yay Jurgen, that was an awesome thing to add (I am being totally serious) also knwo that a pattern even in swooping and being predictable is also a good thing. then I will add to the go through canopy coaching if you can, moving fast and taking the chance is a fast way to a zipper. Cheers Skyjunky Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DAVE619 0 #11 September 16, 2005 HOW MANY EXPERIENCED SWOOPERS IN HERE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN CANOPY COACHING? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #12 September 16, 2005 QuoteHOW MANY EXPERIENCED SWOOPERS IN HERE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN CANOPY COACHING? I have had people take a day to critique and review my swoops, I also had the great fotune to have lots of time last winter laying in bed with a broken leg to email back and forth with Brian Germain. (I also read his book 6 times, maybe not so much to reread it but because the vicodin was clouding my memory of it) take your time, get input and remember often times the experienced guys made a lot of the mistakes for us while inventing this side of out sport. A wise person would learn form their mistakes and not have to remake them;) Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #13 September 17, 2005 QuoteHOW MANY EXPERIENCED SWOOPERS IN HERE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN CANOPY COACHING? The smart ones recognized the benefits of good coaching. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #14 September 17, 2005 Everyone will benefit from coaching. I suggest that every one should get coaching. Even if you have 20,000 jumps coaching will better you. Another thing for all you upcoming swoopers out there, you should be competing in your local CPC. You will never learn more in a shorter amount of time than competing in your local CPC. It's not just for the dudes with velo's, or vx's. The CPC is meant more for those who are starting to learn how to swoop. Give it a try, you will not regret it at all. I would like to see two classes in the CPC next season. One for CB canopies, and one for non CB canopies. I think all you up and coming dudes and dudettes out there would bennefit from this type of classification. If you are consistanly hitting the gates and doing well in the accuracy event, then you are going to be a force to be reconned with in the CPC. Go out and compete you have nothing to loose. Trust me when I say you will have the time of your life. Grant S. Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 September 17, 2005 Quote HOW MANY EXPERIENCED SWOOPERS IN HERE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN CANOPY COACHING? Hmmm... I've taken coaching from a good handful of very experienced canopy pilots that aren't necissarily names you would recognize. I've also taken Scott Miller's essencial course twice, his advanced course twice and have done 1-on-1 in air coaching. I've also read Germain's book and just about everything else I could get my hands on. Its impossible to get too much coaching. Hell, most of the time after swooping I'll ask other experienced swoopers at my DZ to give me any pointers for what they saw me do. Sometimes I'll even get lucky enough to talk someone into taking my camera to the swoop lane to video me so I can debrief myself. Its all about jumps jumps jumps, good coaching and learning as much as you can (not to mention working your way up slow to keep you alive and healthy).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #16 September 17, 2005 QuoteAnd if you start doing them on your own, and you seem (to yourself) to be doing fine, don't get cocky. People like to use jump numbers as a concrete scale for determining whether your ready for something, and most beginners think that's bullshit. But if you find yourself 'progressing' from straight-in approaches to 180's in 40 jumps, even if you feel OK, you're probably wrong. I just learned this the other day when I found myself way too low, without any outs, on a turn that I shouldn't have been making in the first place. I managed to pull it out of my ass and only pound in lightly, but I had no more safety margin left. 5 more feet wouldve been really bad. A very promising jumper with over 1100 jumps was killed last year at Perris when she made a self taught move that she'd been getting away with at a sea level dropzone. At Perris' 1420 ft elevation it put her into the ground and she died 3-4 days later. Learn how to do it from those who already know. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #17 September 17, 2005 Quote I would like to see two classes in the CPC next season. One for CB canopies, and one for non CB canopies. Yeah, me too.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #18 September 18, 2005 QuoteQuote I would like to see two classes in the CPC next season. One for CB canopies, and one for non CB canopies. Yeah, me too.... maybe a little off topic. but i heard alot of younger pilots say that they wouldnt do the cpc, because they would get beat. that is the wrong way of thinking. if you want to get good or better, or be the best. you have to get out there and compete against them. if you dont, you will never beat them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beverly 1 #19 September 19, 2005 QuoteHOW MANY EXPERIENCED SWOOPERS IN HERE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN CANOPY COACHING? I am under permanent coaching by one of our experienced CP guys. Every landing is critted and debriefed. I did 18 jumps this weekend, every jump had a discussion and a debrief. I get crapped on alot and the last one of the weekend was AWESOME!! So worth it. Yes, everyone can benefit from coaching! I think true friendship is under-rated Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
