Compare XAOS 21 to VX and/or Velo

[frost 1]

Opinions needed from those with enough experience on both Xaos 21 and either VX or Velocity.

How does the Xaos compare to these canopies in all flight characteristics? Mainly recovery arch, braked flight.

Thanks in advance

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[TALONSKY 0]

Not to bypass the question but I sure hope you are not looking at jumping a crossbraced canopy with only 400 jumps spread over 5 years are you?
Kirk

[frost 1]

I wouldnt advise anyone to do that. Good looking out.

But please, note the original question. Thanks

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[marks 0]

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Opinions needed from those with enough experience on both Xaos 21 and either VX or Velocity.

How does the Xaos compare to these canopies in all flight characteristics? Mainly recovery arch, braked flight.

Thanks in advance

put it this way. the xaos, im assuming you mean the 27,"thats the one like the vx". well in my opinion xaos sacruficed performance for better openings. the vx dosnt open as well as the xaos but has better performance and dosnt feel mushy like the xaos. the xaos has lighter fron riser pressure, the vx has lighter rear riser pressure, but alot of front riser pressure. but they are similar. i like the vx ALOT better than the xaos

the velo opens slower but has a tendancy to SPIN, if you get line twist, it will even open on heading then dive you so hard sometimes that it spins, you can correct this by moving your brakeline eylet, see you rigger for that.... the velo has fairly even front and rear riser pressure, it seems to dive a little more and it requires input to get it level and to hold it level. the velo has slightly less drag than the xaos and the vx, less lines and it is a 21 cell..

the vx is more of a turf surfer than the velo, but the velo is winning the distance comps becosue of the way the pilots are flying them. they arent turf surfing.

you need 1000 plus jumps and make at least 300 jumpsw a year to jump one of these canopies, if not then you just plain stupid and egotistical.....

[frost 1]

Thanks very much for the info. I appreciate it.

Seems that opinions on these canopies are VERY much subjective...

Oh, and I meant just what i typed - Xaos 21.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[marks 0]

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Thanks very much for the info. I appreciate it.

Seems that opinions on these canopies are VERY much subjective...

Oh, and I meant just what i typed - Xaos 21.

well i dont know much about the 21 then...... if you want a 21 cell, get the velo...

[Spizzzarko 0]

I've put two or three jumps on a 21, and it felt like a really nice opening FX.

[raymod2 1]

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the vx is more of a turf surfer than the velo, but the velo is winning the distance comps becosue of the way the pilots are flying them. they arent turf surfing.

Please explain this.

[IMGR2 0]

Ditto, I am confused as well on how you differentiate distance swoop and turf surf.

I apologize for not having an opinion, although I would say a Velo just for quality purposes and proven competition display.
All my experience is on Atair products.

[GQ_jumper 4]

turf surfin, meaning the pilot is skimming the groudn the whole swoop. looks good but does not get as much distance.

if you watch the distance events on the PST you'll see that they guys getting the most distane will hit the gates then pop back up really high then let the canopy fly itself further with thta added height. the PST 2003 video has some good examples of this. there's also a vid on 12000ft.com that shows Jay breakin 500' with this technique, he verted the gate though so it didn't count(not to say it wasn't a badass swoop though.

someone with a little more experience please back up this statement or shoot it down as necassary

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[marks 0]

thanks.... that is kinda what im sayin....


but it seems you can get a little more distance with the vx with this style flying also... but you dont have to pop it as much if you do it right it will climb itself.


the more you use your rears say to "dig" i hate that term but pull yourself out of the corner the more the canopy will climb, if you go to far past the point the canopy looses , it is tricky and hard for even some of the best pilots to get right...

great i can see it now, all these cats bouncing because they turn to low to dig on the rears...

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Your termilology was correct, though, Mark. It is a dig to get the canopy climbing again.

[GQ_jumper 4]

it looks like the guys getting the best distance are doing a sharp dig to gain that altitude and then sort of letting the canopy fly on its own to conserve a little more speed, visualizing it, a gradual climb doesn't seem like it would work as well, wouldn't that put you at the stall point sooner?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[marks 0]

i like to call it "trim" it seems just a quick "trim" with the rears at the right moment.

this is kinda getting off topic... but to visualize. your slightly behnd the canopy, just befor hitting the gates you "trim" with the rears. or else you hit the ground, then your out in front of the canopy and it begins to climb. a vx will do this on its own kinda. a velo you have to kinda hold it there "in the rears". the vx has a flatter glide, this is why i guess..

i wish jim would chime in here...
the jvx from the way i remember jim explaining it, is trimmed inbetween the velo and the vx. has less drag than the vx and a smaller nose. i havent jumped it yet but im willing to bet you put somone under that thing and get them to bust out a bunch of jumps you will see it winning the comps alot...

but you have to remember, all this shit is more the pilot than the canopy. the canopies just have different flight charecteristics.

and when i call the vx a turf surfer, that is just another way of saying flatter glide i guess..

[OzoneJunkie 0]

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the velo opens slower but has a tendancy to SPIN, if you get line twist, it will even open on heading then dive you so hard sometimes that it spins, you can correct this by moving your brakeline eylet, see you rigger for that....

I'm interested in this part - care to expand on moving the brakeline eylet - how/what that does, etc. Thanks much :)

[marks 0]

you would have to talk to joe bennet on this one. i havent personally tried it, but he has and i even talked with him about it last night. he said he always moves the cat eye 2 inches obove where the factory set it and it opens alot better....

he told me to fly it next time and make the ring on the riser where the line goes through, unstow your brakes and hold them 2 inches past where the cat eye goes through, then see how it flies if it is flying fine then move it.. there is also a trick, some sort of knot you can do to simulate a deeper brake setting before you reline it to see where it opens better at.. i dont know the knot, but im sure some yest pilots out there do...

i was going to do this to mine untill joe made me a removable slider, the removable slider fixed ALL the off heading opening problems.. now it opens great terminal and subterminal. so there is no need for me to mess with the brake settings now. he told me last night that he thinks the slider he makes, makes it open better because of the stiffness of it... it is stiff and reinforced and wants to hold its shape... but there is times when i have to almost stall it with the rears to get the slider to come down past the cascades. but that is nothing, especially now that i dont have spinners.

[Spizzzarko 0]

The less brakes that are applied to a canopy on opening, the slower it opens. Jumping a canopy with the brakes unstowed on opening, makes it open really slowly. The slower it opens, the more time it has to spin up. A lot of the base jumpers have multiple break settings, so I would talk to them about some of the methodology used there. Canuck in USA here on the forums does some of that stuff, maybee he can elaborate. I have no interest in the base stuff. I have jumped a spectre 170 with the brakes unstowed several times just to see what it would do. Spectres open slow as is, but they open really slow with the brakes unstowed. The center cell would inflate and start to fly forward, but the rest of the canopy just streamered off to the sides, like some really bad end cell closure. I would have to pull the rears down quite a bit to get it to inflate.

[OzoneJunkie 0]

Thanks. Sorry to go off topic here, but good info going around. I have a smaller slider for my velo, but haven't put it on yet. I prefer faster openings, especially if it means less chance to seek/spin.

[Spizzzarko 0]

You can use the brake settings to fine tune your openings.

[marks 0]

well with the slider that joe makes the openings are just as slow, even slower. and it is not off heading at all....

i like a quicker opening also. i pack the velo to open fast, just so it doesnt spin. but like i said before.. the slider fixed it all, and i have the benifit of taking off the slider..

[swooper81 0]

so how many of you have made "after market" mods to you canopies? brake lines, suspension lines, airfoil changes, ect.?

[marks 0]

lol... everything about my canopy is mods..... well not really, but there are quite a few little things...

[Spizzzarko 0]

I've only got two jumps on Joe's slider, but i like it so far. I think the cables have something to do with the canopy opening slowly, and on heading. I think they just make the slider stiffer! I usually extend the brake lines a little on my canopy's when I first get it. I havn't really changed the brake setting points any, but If I had kept my VX, I would have changed it a little to fine tune the openings.

[nicknitro71 0]

Keep in mind that a deep break setting should give you faster openings (up to a degree) but that is not always the case.

I was playing with a skydiving canopy break settings and found out that too deep BS lead to surges and longer inflation!

In BASE the real reason for the DBS is really not to have faster openings but to reduce the forward speed as much as possile after the opening. That buys you a bit more time to turn away from the object in the case of a off-heading opening.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[billvon 2,470]

>In BASE the real reason for the DBS is really not to have faster
>openings but to reduce the forward speed . .

Well, and speed up openings (with slider-up deployments.) And reduce the odds of a lineover by keeping the brake lines tighter.