nitron vs sabre2

[mattjw916 2]

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No thanks, I choose Life...

A lightly loaded Nitron was recommended to me by Chris Martin when we were talking at length about canopy selection and inquired about demoing a Fusion back in Oct. I asked if it was an overly aggressive canopy given my experience level and he said I would be much happier with it at a light wingloading than a Fusion. I probably had 50-60 jumps at the time. I'd wait a bit longer before making a purchase personally.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[justinb138 0]

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No thanks, I choose Life...

A lightly loaded Nitron was recommended to me by Chris Martin when we were talking at length about canopy selection and inquired about demoing a Fusion back in Oct. I asked if it was an overly aggressive canopy given my experience level and he said I would be much happier with it at a light wingloading than a Fusion. I probably had 50-60 jumps at the time. I'd wait a bit longer before making a purchase personally.

Sorry about that, it would probably make more sense if you knew more about me. I'm about 240 OTD and the largest size nitron they make is a 170. That would put me at a 1.4 wingloading, which would most likely cause me bodily harm at one point or another..

[mattjw916 2]

yeah... 1.4 would be a little high.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[J.Huff 0]

Is the step down from a Safire2 170 to a Nitron 150 going to be too drastic or is it necessary to stick it out with a semi-elliptical before downsizing into a fully elliptical?

Went from flying a 190 sabre as a strudent to a 170 Spectra and now a 169 Safire 2 (which I love BTW) Though the Safire 2 was borrowed for a few weekends putting approx 25+ jumps on it, I feel that a 150 is where I want to spend my next 300-500 jumps. Since I will most likely purchase new, I don't want to purchase a something that I'm going to want to sell in another 100 jumps.

[dploi 0]

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Is the step down from a Safire2 170 to a Nitron 150 going to be too drastic or is it necessary to stick it out with a semi-elliptical before downsizing into a fully elliptical?

If you really only have 84 jumps and aren't trolling, I'd say you are far better off asking for canopy selection advice from experienced skydivers at your dropzone who've seen you land, and not anyone on the Internet.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I feel that a 150 is where I want to spend my next 300-500 jumps

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Both are in the same class. Size 150 can be manageable with your experience. Try to demo Sabre2, Pilot, Safire2, Nitro, Nitron. You'll see what fits you better.

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Since I will most likely purchase new, I don't want to purchase a something that I'm going to want to sell in another 100 jumps.

Keep looking you might find a good deal on something with 50-200 jumps and decent colors.

[J.Huff 0]

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Is the step down from a Safire2 170 to a Nitron 150 going to be too drastic or is it necessary to stick it out with a semi-elliptical before downsizing into a fully elliptical?

If you really only have 84 jumps and aren't trolling, I'd say you are far better off asking for canopy selection advice from experienced skydivers at your dropzone who've seen you land, and not anyone on the Internet.

I'm certainly not trolling. I'm simply looking for educational advice from those who have been there and done that. I'm well aware in how forums and opinions work and I'm also well aware in how those at my dz feel about anyone downsizing. It's a BIG DEAL. Regardless in your flying abilities, jump numbers tend to play a role in their outlook and I respect that stance. Though my respect does not make me a Lemming. I don't want to be that "guy" next to me that waited 250+ jumps to downsize to a safire 2. For him, he thinks it's fast....for me....Not so much. But my background isn't his and his isn't mine.
As previously stated, I'm interested in getting under something that I can enjoy and learn under for a couple of years and not be frustrated by the buying and selling of canopies that I will soon grow tired of.
I truly enjoy the Safire 2 169 and respect it's performance. I'm not looking at swooping; I'm not looking at pushing the envelope; I'm simply interested in someone educating me more on canopy selection. NOT can you land it or not.....Yes I can land it, but there is more to piloting than just landing it and I am well aware and respect that as well. Yesterday was a prime example....20mph winds in the morning and no winds the last jump of the day. My landings were in the areas that I had selected for landing.

Bottom line, I'm a newbie to the sport and I look to those with more experience to educate me, not just say "NO, you'll brake yourself"......I heard that about the 169. Guess that wans't true.

[KathleenL 0]

Hi J,

Here is my opinion from one A to another. I downsized from a Chute Shop zp.exe 170 (square) to and Alpha(eliptical) 165 and now I have my brother in laws Nitron 150 in my rig. I have about 15 jumps on it. I demo'ed a Saber II 150 right before I got the Nitron. I flew the Saber II for 6 jumps. All of this has been in the last 4 weeks. I like them both. In the air they both handled very similar. The landings are different though. I could easily land the Saber II standing up. The glide angle and flair are different than the Nitron. PD has a great article about "the corner", it is about landing. I had to really dial in the flair on the Nitron but once I got it I landed it just fine as well. The Nitron IMO opens softer than the Sabre II.
I too get the same comments about getting broken etc. But here is the deal. And I can not stress this enough. If you have not already done so, take a canopy control course. I took Scott Millers course when I had less than 40 jumps. I realized right away that canopy control was very important. The question to any jumper should be "can you control the canopy your jumping?" AND do you know what to do to learn how to control it.
I agree with you about jump numbers influence peoples perspectives of your ability to fly your canopy. But most of the 500 or 1000+ jumpers that give me "advice" don't have any training on canopy control. As far as I am concerned Scott Miller is the master of canopy control. He will teach you the physics and geometry of canopy flight AND you will understand it.
Knowing what a canopy does and why and working on control skills in the air on every jump is key. You need to know how to flat turn, turn with risers, turn with harness input and all that stuff to be able to make a good decision about a canopy. Scott even had us learn our stall points by wrapping our break lines around our hands and stalling our canopys in the air above 2000ft. It was scary to see my canopy ball up into a big wad of crap. But when I slowly released the lines it reinflated just like Scott said it would.
Like I said if you have not already taken a canopy control course do that and then demo canopys to see what you like.
By the way my brother in law wants his canopy back and he just bought me a zp.exe 135. So I will be jumping that one this weekend. My first canopy was a zp.exe and I know the flight characteristics so I am sure I will be just fine. BUT note that I only weight 148 out the door so my wing loading is not really high.

[dploi 0]

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I don't want to be that "guy" next to me that waited 250+ jumps to downsize to a safire 2. For him, he thinks it's fast....for me....Not so much.

Bottom line, I'm a newbie to the sport and I look to those with more experience to educate me, not just say "NO, you'll brake yourself"......I heard that about the 169. Guess that wans't true.

Spoken like a true 100-jump wonder.

Brian Germain's advice on wingloading is the best to follow, IMO. For every 100 jumps, add a tenth to your max load. 100 jumps should be 1.1, 1.2 at 200, etc. If you buy something to load at 1.2 now, it should do you fine until you want to go to 1.4, etc.

Getting through those first few hundred jumps at too-high wingloadings is far more luck than skill. Don't confuse the rush of a parachute that is too fast for you with the fun of a fast parachute you know how to control.

The progression mentioned above is a great mix of safety and satisfaction. It's a fast enough pace to keep from getting bored. It's a slow enough pace to make you a great canopy pilot someday -- and then the fun REALLY starts.

[dannydan 0]

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Don't confuse the rush of a parachute that is too fast for you with the fun of a fast parachute you know how to control.

I totally agree not because of my jumpin exp, but because of LIFE and then my jumping exp!!

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The progression mentioned above is a great mix of safety and satisfaction. It's a fast enough pace to keep from getting bored. It's a slow enough pace to make you a great canopy pilot someday -- and then the fun REALLY starts.

I cant WAIT for the "REALLY" part! Jumping a SA230 and PD210 all sumr this year I started demoing the SAII 190 and Spectre190 late.. It will be halfway through next season b4 I get my (first, all mine, not used) crispy creamer CaNoPy....

WooHoo!!! f*&K ya!! : DD

[J.Huff 0]

I'm certainly not going to play the keyboard warrior with the site, but I will make a simple reply and submit food for thought.

I respect the opinions and experience of those who have walked down "that road". However, we all have to make our own decisions with eyes wide open and understand our limits while being responsible.
Trust me when I say that I've spent weeks on end reading all of the stories, reports, opinions, and other misc. material posted on this particular forum. I've also spoken with others that I jump with and have far more years of experience and discussed with them my choices. They support my decision and know that I am not a danger to myself or other in the air around me.

As my father stated years ago, " you must make decsions for yourself and be willing to live or die with the consequences they may bring".

On a side note, take into consideration motorcyles and the fatal impact they can have on a life. Though some kids, teens, young adults, and old men can ride a motorcyle (insert bike here) and ride for many years without incident...all the while riding defensively. Then there are kids, teens, young adults and even old men that have no business on a motorcycle and are a danger to themselves along with those around them. I've been riding since I was 7 with a father that has built customs for years. But I waited until I turned 27 to purchase my first GSXR 750.......Why? Because I knew I was not responsible enough to own or ride a powerful motorcyle of that caliber.

It's sad that even with grown men, the stones that are thrown are behind a keyboard....."spoken like a 100 jumps wonder"......When you have not seen the individual fly nor know the indivdual to which you speak.

(What is "fast" to you may not be "fast" to the individual next to you. Facts are facts and they are undisputed.....No one person is created identical. Do no place everyone in a one size fits all box. There will always be someone/something that will break the mold)

Thank you for all the advice and consideration. It is always welcome and does not fall on deaf ears. I may not always agree in the end, but I always take it all in for complete consideration.

[AggieDave 6]

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(What is "fast" to you may not be "fast" to the individual next to you. Facts are facts and they are undisputed.....No one person is created identical. Do no place everyone in a one size fits all box. There will always be someone/something that will break the mold)

I hope that you read this again in 3-4 years. Those of us that seem too conservative became that way through our personal experience. I was the poster child for downsizing too fast and with too aggressive of a canopy. It was by the pure grace of god that I wasn't killed on a couple of occasions and seriously injured on a couple others. Along the way I got to hold friend's hands waiting for Careflight and collect memorial pages out of Parachutist of my friends.

There is nothing available to the general public that prepares them for canopy flight. Except the emerging sport of speed flying. Paragliding helps, but once again, how many of the general public participate in that sport.

Some people have less tact than others when talking about this on the internet (and in person), but the truth is still in their message.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[headoverheels 291]

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It's sad that even with grown men, the stones that are thrown are behind a keyboard....."spoken like a 100 jumps wonder"......When you have not seen the individual fly nor know the indivdual to which you speak.

It is just that we have heard this too many times, and all too often seen the aftermath. Even though you write a very thoughtful, coherent post, it is patently obvious that you have no understanding.

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I respect the opinions and experience of those who have walked down "that road". However, we all have to make our own decisions with eyes wide open and understand our limits while being responsible.

Then open your eyes.

You don't need approval or permission from anyone here to jump whatever you like. You asked for advice, and were given good advice, and chose to ignore it.

[Pendragon 1]

I know what you're saying and understand why you're saying it, and there is some merit - not everyone is, nor should be treated equal.

HOWEVER, it is proven human nature that we all believe that, individually, we are "ahead of the curve", or whatever. It is those who seek to get independent verification of that, through coaching for instance, and realise that they always have more to learn, will most likely do better - and be around longer - than those that don't.

Well, at least that's my theory.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[J.Huff 0]

Thank you for the comments and I appreciate the time taken to post a resonable response.

I decided on a 149 Safire 2. I'm comfortable under this particular canopy and enjoy it after demoing a couple of canopies. I'll sit under it for a couple undred jumps and squeeze out the potential over the next year and potentially two seasons.

30+ jumps under it solidified my choice..........