do Cobalts twist?

[ForeverDive 0]

My question is how do Cobalts loaded around 1.3 behave with regard to line twists?
Also, what is the recommended length for risers for a 150?
I want to convert my old, out of date risers to mini-risers with the new anti-twist technology. I’ve already had an exhilarating reserve ride due to line twist on another elliptical canopy, and as much as I like the jump I’d rather not do it again.
It is my understand that the Cobalt was designed with stability in mind, but I like to know how it handles in a line twist malfunction and if any of you out there have had any. Also how do you avoid line twist e.i. what is the best body position.
“Knowing is half the battle” G.I. Joe

[rgoper 0]

visit extremefly.com to see all of atair's products, and info on the "2 stage" opening, i think this will better serve answering your question. Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[ForeverDive 0]

Yes, I read about the 2-stage opening and it is very smooth, but I believe it doesn't explain how it stands up against line twist.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've packed full line twists on purpose once* and the thing opened straight and flew straight with no diving or turning until I kicked out of them. Over all... its pretty stable with line twists, about as stable as my old Spectre was. Big key is getting the risers level right away.
*Dont try this unless you have a mental problem like me If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[ForeverDive 0]

You rock! I wish I would have thought of doing that.
As he stared into the Reaper’s empty shroud and as hundreds of thoughts raced through his head a second he raised his arm and extended his middle finger and said, “Not today.”

[bhale 0]

The only time I have encountered twists with my Cobalt(s) has been hop and pops, and the canopy stayed straight and stable all the way through.
These things ROCK!!!

[Geoff 0]

Me too. I had twists on my Cobalt a couple of times, and just kicked them out no problem.

[cobaltdan 0]

cobalts are not prone to spinning themselves up.
this is first due to the staged deployments. i.e. if you watch a slomo-video of a stilletto or other hp canopy inflate you will see that the entire canopy inflates before the slider can significantly move. as the lines are restricted routed through the slider garomets, the canopy can not inflate to its proper shape. tyhe leading edge of the canopy can not inflate straight and snakes violently until the slider hase moved down. this violent motion directly causes off heading opennigs and can occasionally induces twists. a cobalt differs in that when the center cells catch air the conductance of that air beyond the center 3 cells is limited so as not to inflate the canopy. our choice of airfoil allows you to be suspended farther back under the canopy (instead of under or in front of the nose). watching a slomo-video of a cobalt deploy you will see that center 3 cells act as a drouge to slow you down when the force of 3 cells pushing the slider down over come the aerodynamic force keeping it up, the slider moves down and allow the outer 3 cells on either side to catch air and inflate. the leading edge remains straight and does not snake, the leading edge of the outer cells unroll from the center of the canopy to the ends.
even at very high wingloadings cobalts remain very stable and are not prone to twisting or off heading openings. if you twists happen due to body position or other factors, simply straighten your links and they fly dead straight.
in the last 800 jumps i have only been twisted up twice.last one i have a video, flying straight kicking out of 5 line twists. (my fault deployed in my usual track but strongly changed heading after dumping. i was spooked by someone suddenly tracking below me).
sincerely,
dan
atair
www.extremefly.com

[ForeverDive 0]

Thanks Dan. I was waiting for your reply. Very helpfull.

[ForeverDive 0]

By the way Dan, I love my new Cobalt! I hit dead center on the peas on my second jump, and opening in a track feels awesome! It's just weird opening in a track when I've conditioned myself not too because of some back breakers that I've had while opening in a track on accident. And I know Everyone has done this at least once, don't deny it.
But from one engineer to another, one of the greatest feelings is to see something you worked out on paper work so well in practice. Well done on this one!

[R00tj00se 0]

On a separate note - how do you guys find the openings in terms of speed on the cobalt. Do they take 1000ft plus or can you get them opening quicker than that. What height do you reach for the handle to pull?

[PhreeZone 15]

No canopy should ever take 1000 feet to open. Most take 500-600 and slow ones like the Cobalt, Crossfire, Spectre etc take 600-800. 1000 foot is a streamer and a 8-10 second opening....
I've got my Cobalt dialed in for about 600 feet and soft and gentle every time. I had to play with the slider cords a bit since they kept wanting to shrink a bit but once I tweeked them..... its the best opening I've had out of the 12 canopies I've jumped. I open at 3200 since I love the canopy that much....
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[freefallin14 0]

I have only had line twist my cobalt once. Loaded at 1.7. All my openings have been for the most part great, but it can do some crazy dancing from time to time. The one with line twist was a 180 degree turn on opening, most likely caused by bad body position. It turned those 180 degrees very very quickly and spun up into about 3-4 twists. I was immediatly thinking "this sucks, probably no more jumping today after I cut this away" But saw that it was stable and just kicked out. I love my cobalt, and cannot wait to jump a competition one someday in the future.
Bret

[Remster 24]

But Phree.. I swear mine takes 1,500 feet to open all the time... I swear!...
Remster
Muff 914

[R00tj00se 0]

This is taken from the cobalt web site - they seem to disagree with you on the definition of a streamer.
"Deployment height depends on airspeed and loading but is typically in the range of 800-1000'. "
Not being arsey, just though I'd post what Atair say.

[GrumpySmurf 0]

My take on it: You look up and see the slider after the canopy is out of the bag - ya got yerself a slow openning/snivel.
If you look up and don't see the slider (it's still contained in the canopy) after the canopy is out of the bag - ya got yerself a s(t/c)reamer.

• Quote

[imdskydiver 0]

I hate to think that i am the only one here at DZ .com that has cut away from a Cobalt ,It spun up about five times with one riser about 3" lower than the other one which caused a spinning and diving canopy, probably from grabbing the risers on deployment ,Don't do that ! I have some cool video of it.

[ForeverDive 0]

I'd like to see that video.
Having been the originator of this post I took your comments and put them to the test today. I did a hop and pop and opened sub terminal, and sure enough I succeeded in inducing line twists (bad body position and, waa la, about 2 turns)! And just like all of you said it would, it few strait and true. No cut away required like the other twist I had that I fought to the hard deck! Sweetness!! I feel twice as confident now.
Oh, and steering the opening with weight shift does make all the difference.
Knowing is half the battle - G.I. Joe

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

I hate to think that i am the only one here at DZ .com that has cut away from a Cobalt

No....I know at least two others. One was Skymonkeyone on a wingsuit so that probably doesn't count but the other was a regular skydive.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[roq 0]

I have experience in Atair canopys 85 load 2.1/2.2 (350 jumps), 120 load 1.5/1.6 (20 jumps) and 150 (1.2)
The openings with 85 are very good and in geral straight. When happen line twists the reason is in general the bad body position or bad pack job.
The line twists is not problem. I have more 10 line twists with my 85 (because proposal bad body position and opening experiences) and have no problems for cleared it. Per times happen one or two turns in begin with the line twists, but the turns stops or they reduce the speed immediately, allowing to clear up quickly. In more of the all times the canopy fly straight with line twists.
I don't have line twists with canopys 120 and 150 but I think it canopys fly normal with line twists and light load.
With other canopys the line twists can be dramatic (I have experience this). The body are centrifuged and spining don't stop anymore. Your body stay to the same height of the canopy. The cut way is solution for it.
Roq

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

To clarify Clay's post: I cutaway from my competiton Cobalt 75 on a wingsuit jump after I had a premature brake deployment instead of just cutting away my wings and releasing my other brake. My fuck-up completely; not the canopy's fault.
In my opinion, the fact that I jump a 75 square foot napkin with my winsuit is testament to the fact that I am secure in the openings of my Cobalt.
chuck
My webpage HERE