TALONSKY 0 #1 August 29, 2002 I am looking for opinions on the crossfire 2. Also if there is anyone that has tried a crossfire 2 and a Sabre 2 I would like to get an opinion between these two. Thanks Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #2 August 29, 2002 talonsky, when asking for opinions on canopies it is always bennificial to provide additional information, i.e. which canopies have you jumped and how many jumps on each, what is your exit weight, skill level and goals? sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyfree 0 #3 August 29, 2002 mmm do you mean "opTions" or "opINions" or "opiUM" or "opRESions"heheh anyway I've never jmped neither of the four Felipe-- Blue Skies NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY... "A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 August 29, 2002 For one.. there is a huge difference.. the Sabre2 is semi-elliptical and the Crossfire is fully elliptical. I'm yet to jump a Crossfire2 but from a few accounts.. its more radical then the original.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #5 August 29, 2002 Are you thinking the Safire2 instead of the crossfire2? The Safire2 and the Sabre2 are in the same canopy category.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #6 August 29, 2002 OK I screwed up it should be opinion. Anyway, I am 225lbs out the door, I have been flying a Safire 169 wing loaded at about 1.65 to 1 over the winter (I got fat “245 lbs out the door” and now trimmed down). I currently am doing 90° front riser to double front riser for final and getting pretty good surf out of it. I feel that the next step is 180° then when they are dialed I would be interested in a new canopy. I have taken a condensed version of the evolution canopy course. My goal is to get longer surfs and take the next step in performance. I am sorry Dan but I am not interested in Cobalts. Blue skies Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #7 August 29, 2002 >Anyway, I am 225lbs out the door, I have been flying a Safire 169 >wing loaded at about 1.65 to 1 over the winter (I got fat “245 lbs out >the door” and now trimmed down). I currently am doing 90° front >riser to double front riser for final and getting pretty good surf out of > it. I'd say it depends on your objectives. If it is to continue to get decent surfs at that loading, I'd try a Sabre2 150 or thereabouts after you pur some more jumps on the Safire. You'll notice a marked improvement in swoop distance and front riser pressure should be a bit lower. If your objective is to get much more aggressive, a Crossfire 149 might be more to your liking. Some advice, though - make sure you can fly your current canopy before you downsize. For example, make sure you can: -land in no wind and crosswind -land with rear risers -land uphill and downhill -flare turn at least 45 degrees and stand up the landing -flat turn at least 90 degrees at low altitudes (i.e. 50-100 feet) -do no contact CRW with someone else -land consistently in a 10 meter circle standing up >I have taken a condensed version of the evolution canopy course. Interesting; I did not know they offered a condensed version. What did it entail? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #8 August 29, 2002 Thanks Bill for the input. One thing I found interesting, in taking the canopy course taught by Jim Slaton he said that you should never try landing a canopy with rear risers unless you had to. I can't remember all of it without my notes but something about aerodynamic difference between rear risers and toggles. I am not trying to start anything just thought it was interesting. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #9 August 29, 2002 Its way easier to stall on rear risers... but its an important skill to learn incase you make the mistake of leaving the brakes stowed on a long spot and pop them at 700 feet only to find one will not pop off. You can safely land this if you've practiced it under ideal conditons before the worst conditions.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #10 August 29, 2002 I am thinking of the Crossfire 2 not Safire 2. The S&TA at my dz does not care for Icarus products after the way they handle the original Crossfire issue, plus he is a PD fan. So he thought that the Sabre 2 would be good as well as the Crossfire 2. I personally feel soon I will be ready to step over to full elliptical. Thanks Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #11 August 29, 2002 I did the exact same thing you did, sort of. went from a sabre (old) to a safire 149, to a crossfire 139. I'm about 225 out the door. Crossfire handled much better than the safire, better openings, and much better landings. Not sure about the Xfire2.... and Im now jumping velocities Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #12 August 29, 2002 The closest match to a Crossfire from PD is a Stiletto or a Vengence. I'm not a fan of the Stiletto... but there has to be a reason its the most popular elliptical ever made.... Check out BigAir Sportz Samauri.... I was VERY impressed by it....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #13 August 29, 2002 I jumped the Crossfire II in sizes: 89, 108, and 149. Loved it. When I give up cross-bracing and slow down, that will be my canopy of choice. Openings, flight, riser pressure, everthing was very nice. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #14 August 30, 2002 I have a crossfire2, 97.. loading 1.85+ It is AMAZING!! "talonski" Ask me anything you want to know.. I now have 100+ jumps on it. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #15 August 30, 2002 Thanks Rhino, I have read your review of the Crossfire 2 and also read the reviews you have posted in the forums. I guess at this point I am looking for just general impressions from as many people as possible. Mainly to confirm what I believe about the Crossfire 2 (that is it is great) or to find the flaws in the canopy. After seeing the picture you posted of yours I am a little concerned about how much they closed the nose up. Those inlets are damn small. Anyways thanks Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #16 August 30, 2002 an X-braced nose is closed more, and it might be a bit of an illusion as there is more of an opening on the bottom skin, which you might not be able to see. the idea behind it (IMO) was to get a more shaped nose (as in use fabric), and a more efficient airfoil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #17 August 30, 2002 My new review would be even better... I can tell you that the inlets don't make a damn bit of difference.. If you look at the side on picture the nose is actually acting as a scoop?? cool huh.. Anyways.. The canopy is the fastest turning, most stable thing I have jumped. I am extremely picky and I absolutely love this canopy. Bottom end it tremendous. If you aren't use to "VERY" fast turns.. And I mean very fast.. You might not like it.. It turns faster than a comparable 110-vs 97 Diablo.. Until I jumped my crossfire2 I didn't think I would ever find a 9 cell that could turn as quickly as the diablo did.. 1.85 is the optimal wing loading for this canopy.. I put weight on for a few jumps and loaded it at 2.15.. It was still incredible but the line got thinner in the bottom end. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #18 August 30, 2002 I seem to remember you saying that unless you let the chest strap out it was bouncy... that still the case?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #19 August 31, 2002 It is definitely the case.. I think I need an even longer chest strap actually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maretus 0 #20 September 1, 2002 If you would compare Crossfire2 with similarly sized (and loaded) vengeance, what would the differences be ? Let's say the loading being 1.8-1.9 for example. Is there somebody who has actual experience on this kind of comparison ?http://www.ufufreefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #21 September 1, 2002 Haven't flown the vengeance yet? I am EXTREMELY picky when it comes to flight characteristics that I like in a canopy.. I am so happy with the crossfire2 that I actually don't even have the urge to jump anything else.. It is that much fun. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoltan 0 #22 September 2, 2002 Are you sure that before anyone decides to downsize his/her current canopy should -land with rear risers -land uphill and downhill -flare turn at least 45 degrees and stand up the landing ??? I have 1000+ jumps and downsized couple of times and still have never even considered to land with rear risers. With ZP canopies it is way to risky... it is very easy to stall the canopy with rear risres.. it is question of millimeters. It is fine for experienced canopy pilots.. but why a 500jumped young friend should land a 1.5 loaded Sabre before going to a 1.75 loaded Spectre? the other two manouvers are also more like competition swooping technics. blue skies, z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #23 September 2, 2002 you can practice landing on rears at altitude by doing mock swoops. i have only landed once without using toggles (i could not clear a line over and was low for a cutaway). i was very, very happy i had always practiced this manuever (at altitude) that day. i had to turn 180 to enter the edge of a corn field and came in fast. i let go of my toggles completely (i didn't want to instintualy pull on them). i am loaded 2.2 on my wing and with only rears my swoop was 300'+ and i finished up going much faster than i am used to, skiding, then plf'ing in a tumble for a good 25'. definately practice at altitude so in the event you have to land on rears you will have a reasonable chance of not hurting yourself. be safe. sincerely, dan <><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoltan 0 #24 September 3, 2002 yes, of course you can do whatever you want with your canopy if you have enough altitude... If I test jump a new canopy me myself also doing all crazy thing to see how it reacts for various riser and togle and harnes input. But it is different then doing it in a sharp situation close to the ground... Of course if you have to... then it is a different case. But as you wrote as well, landing a fast canopy with rear risres might hurt... so i would not say that it is "must" before downsizing canopy... it is a "must" only if you want to learn high performance landing or you want to be super curent canopy pilot who is prepared for all cases :) like landing a lineovered 2.2 loaded elliptical :) blue skies z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ShortBus 0 #25 September 4, 2002 Demo'd a Crossfire 2 139 & 129 the 129 loaded at 1.5 and it flew great...1.5 is lightly loading that canopy since it tends to really want to fly, Icarus says the "sweet spot" for the canopy is 1.85 all in all i was very impressed, openings were very soft, riser pressure light, i was doing 180 left followed by 360 right no prob, its kinda of twitchy and likes to be landed with speed, the flare kicks ass you can slow that thing way down before stalling it. toggle turns were fast and i felt really in "control" im not a long snivel person so the only thing that i really didnt like were those long snivels i was constantly getting on the rear risers to pressurise the canopy.. if i had a camera on my head im sure this would be the canopy for me, very consistant.. the recovery arc is also longer then a crossfire 1...well thats my input i hope it helps a little He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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PhreeZone 15 #12 August 29, 2002 The closest match to a Crossfire from PD is a Stiletto or a Vengence. I'm not a fan of the Stiletto... but there has to be a reason its the most popular elliptical ever made.... Check out BigAir Sportz Samauri.... I was VERY impressed by it....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 August 29, 2002 I jumped the Crossfire II in sizes: 89, 108, and 149. Loved it. When I give up cross-bracing and slow down, that will be my canopy of choice. Openings, flight, riser pressure, everthing was very nice. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #14 August 30, 2002 I have a crossfire2, 97.. loading 1.85+ It is AMAZING!! "talonski" Ask me anything you want to know.. I now have 100+ jumps on it. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #15 August 30, 2002 Thanks Rhino, I have read your review of the Crossfire 2 and also read the reviews you have posted in the forums. I guess at this point I am looking for just general impressions from as many people as possible. Mainly to confirm what I believe about the Crossfire 2 (that is it is great) or to find the flaws in the canopy. After seeing the picture you posted of yours I am a little concerned about how much they closed the nose up. Those inlets are damn small. Anyways thanks Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #16 August 30, 2002 an X-braced nose is closed more, and it might be a bit of an illusion as there is more of an opening on the bottom skin, which you might not be able to see. the idea behind it (IMO) was to get a more shaped nose (as in use fabric), and a more efficient airfoil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #17 August 30, 2002 My new review would be even better... I can tell you that the inlets don't make a damn bit of difference.. If you look at the side on picture the nose is actually acting as a scoop?? cool huh.. Anyways.. The canopy is the fastest turning, most stable thing I have jumped. I am extremely picky and I absolutely love this canopy. Bottom end it tremendous. If you aren't use to "VERY" fast turns.. And I mean very fast.. You might not like it.. It turns faster than a comparable 110-vs 97 Diablo.. Until I jumped my crossfire2 I didn't think I would ever find a 9 cell that could turn as quickly as the diablo did.. 1.85 is the optimal wing loading for this canopy.. I put weight on for a few jumps and loaded it at 2.15.. It was still incredible but the line got thinner in the bottom end. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #18 August 30, 2002 I seem to remember you saying that unless you let the chest strap out it was bouncy... that still the case?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #19 August 31, 2002 It is definitely the case.. I think I need an even longer chest strap actually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maretus 0 #20 September 1, 2002 If you would compare Crossfire2 with similarly sized (and loaded) vengeance, what would the differences be ? Let's say the loading being 1.8-1.9 for example. Is there somebody who has actual experience on this kind of comparison ?http://www.ufufreefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #21 September 1, 2002 Haven't flown the vengeance yet? I am EXTREMELY picky when it comes to flight characteristics that I like in a canopy.. I am so happy with the crossfire2 that I actually don't even have the urge to jump anything else.. It is that much fun. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #22 September 2, 2002 Are you sure that before anyone decides to downsize his/her current canopy should -land with rear risers -land uphill and downhill -flare turn at least 45 degrees and stand up the landing ??? I have 1000+ jumps and downsized couple of times and still have never even considered to land with rear risers. With ZP canopies it is way to risky... it is very easy to stall the canopy with rear risres.. it is question of millimeters. It is fine for experienced canopy pilots.. but why a 500jumped young friend should land a 1.5 loaded Sabre before going to a 1.75 loaded Spectre? the other two manouvers are also more like competition swooping technics. blue skies, z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #23 September 2, 2002 you can practice landing on rears at altitude by doing mock swoops. i have only landed once without using toggles (i could not clear a line over and was low for a cutaway). i was very, very happy i had always practiced this manuever (at altitude) that day. i had to turn 180 to enter the edge of a corn field and came in fast. i let go of my toggles completely (i didn't want to instintualy pull on them). i am loaded 2.2 on my wing and with only rears my swoop was 300'+ and i finished up going much faster than i am used to, skiding, then plf'ing in a tumble for a good 25'. definately practice at altitude so in the event you have to land on rears you will have a reasonable chance of not hurting yourself. be safe. sincerely, dan <><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #24 September 3, 2002 yes, of course you can do whatever you want with your canopy if you have enough altitude... If I test jump a new canopy me myself also doing all crazy thing to see how it reacts for various riser and togle and harnes input. But it is different then doing it in a sharp situation close to the ground... Of course if you have to... then it is a different case. But as you wrote as well, landing a fast canopy with rear risres might hurt... so i would not say that it is "must" before downsizing canopy... it is a "must" only if you want to learn high performance landing or you want to be super curent canopy pilot who is prepared for all cases :) like landing a lineovered 2.2 loaded elliptical :) blue skies z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShortBus 0 #25 September 4, 2002 Demo'd a Crossfire 2 139 & 129 the 129 loaded at 1.5 and it flew great...1.5 is lightly loading that canopy since it tends to really want to fly, Icarus says the "sweet spot" for the canopy is 1.85 all in all i was very impressed, openings were very soft, riser pressure light, i was doing 180 left followed by 360 right no prob, its kinda of twitchy and likes to be landed with speed, the flare kicks ass you can slow that thing way down before stalling it. toggle turns were fast and i felt really in "control" im not a long snivel person so the only thing that i really didnt like were those long snivels i was constantly getting on the rear risers to pressurise the canopy.. if i had a camera on my head im sure this would be the canopy for me, very consistant.. the recovery arc is also longer then a crossfire 1...well thats my input i hope it helps a little He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
