CanEHdian 0 #1 August 27, 2002 After 3 years and 500 jumps (most on a Spectre, some Sabres, Lotus), I'm looking at getting new gear and deliberating on my choice of canopy. Been looking into: Samurai, Crossfire2, Cobalt and Vengeance. I'd appreciate the more experienced canopy pilots who have tried these canopies (one or more) to share their opinions and suggestions. Yes, I've already done some digging, but would like some up to date info. PM's are welcome for those who feel uncomfortable expressing strongly for/against in a public forum. Any/all info & opinions are welcome, but mostly appreciated from those with experience. My main concerns: 1. OPENINGS: This has been my biggest show-stopper so far in trying an elliptical/high-perf canopy. I've heard statements about some being WELL BEHAVED - even in line twists - do they really exist? Soft/hard openings... camera fliers... required harnest shifting.. etc... 2. Flight characteristics: glide, turns, toggle pressure, deep brakes/stall, etc... 3. Landings: diving characs, recov arc, swoops, flare, etc... Guess I'm looking for overall critiques on these canopies (or others that you'd suggest). I'd also like to know if you'd suggest a favorable range of wing loading for one's first elliptical or should I just stick to what I'm already used to. Thanks in advance - any/all experienced info is again much appreciated. Cheers, CanEHdianTime's flying, and so am I... (69-way, 108-way and 138/142-way Freefly World Records) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #2 August 27, 2002 It's funny, I'm in the same boat. I jump a Hornet 150 and I'm very undecided if going elliptical or just down size what I'm jumping now. I'm getting a camera helmet soon and I do not want to deal with all the bad things associated with elliptical openings. I like the heatwave a lot but I jumped only few times and the openings seem fine but I have not made up my mind yet.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 August 27, 2002 I've jumped the Sam and own a Cobalt so I'll address those two... >1. OPENINGS: Cobalt... nice, very similar to a Sabre that it turned.. .but did'nt dive on me. Requires harness steering to be dead on heading... no harness will get you with in 90 every time. I'm a camera flyer and LOVE the openings... Only had one hard opening on my 150 and that was just peeling out of a HD attempt I tossed. The 135 demo that had the wrong slider on it... WOW did it hurt. Sam.. Never had twists, required nothing in the harness, but opened quick. Quick is not hard... but its still faster then the Cobalt/Stilettos I've jumped. I had to focus on the horizon with the camera and not the canopy like my Cobalt. >Flight characteristics Cobalt... search the fourms for a ton of info on this... Sam, faster in all reguards, faster forward, faster sink faster turns. Solid above my head.. it felt stiff. It never really stalled in the way most canopies do.. it got super mushy and fell but never collapsed. >3. Landings: Cobalt.. Fairly short recover Arc (about 350 feet), great swoops even at 1.25 loading I'm getting 50 foot slides on wet grass. Thats about a 75 foot under 5 feet gates. I love mine. Sam.. continues to dive after letting go of the risers so you can let go at 20 feet then just bump the toggles to keep the speed up. Honestly... I'd be happy with either one.. I like packing the Cobalt better, its cheaper too. Demo both and report back in!Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #4 August 28, 2002 As it happens, I'm also considering an elliptical canopy. I initially thought about the Vengeance too, but I heard(and saw) that it can be very sensitive to packing and can give very funky openings. A friend of mine cut-away her Vengeance twice in a few weeks. Now I'm considering the Heatwave or the Crossfire2(mainly depending on how much money I can spare...). I'd love to give the Cobalt a try, but unfortunately there's no way I can demo a 120 in Finland. There are a lot of people here on DZcom jumping Hornets, but does anyone have any input on the Heatwave? Also, have there been any issues with the Crossfire2 like there were with with the original? Erno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #5 August 28, 2002 What do you currently load your canopy? (sabre 150?)? You've jumped a Lotus, the Samurai will turn and dive faster than the Lotus. As far as airlocked ellipticals go I recommend the Samurai over the Vengeance. Whatever elliptical you buy get it the same size as the main you jump now. Samurai Openings: Good. The worst opening I've had was a deployment after tracking and not slowing forward speed. Even that wasn't bad. Just deploy and be relaxed and neutral in the harness. If you start moving around in the harness before the slider is down the canopy will hunt a bit for a heading. This is generally true of all ellipticals. Samurai flight characteristics: Full flight glide is steeper than a stiletto or vengeance. Give it a inch or two of rear riser and the glide is pretty flat. Toggle and riser pressure is light. I've pulled rear risers at the link all the way to my shoulders and stalled the canopy. The airlocks keep the canopy from returning to a snivel. All that happens is loss of forward drive and the canopy gently sinks. Samurai Landings: I load mine in the 1.3 to 1.4 range and have gotten 25m to 30m swoop out of 90 degree front riser turns to final. I'm still working on longer riser turns to final. The negative recovery arc is great. It allows you to get off the front risers at a higher altitude and maintain momentum until the flare. It lands well w/ standard approach to landing as well; because of the steeper glide, build in some extra altitude for turns to base and final legs. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #6 August 28, 2002 >I'd love to give the Cobalt a try, but unfortunately there's no way I can demo a 120 in Finland. See if you can find either a Space/Alpha or Impulse to demo. They are all basically the same canopy with the Cobalt having the newest additions and refinements to it.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #7 August 28, 2002 QuoteWhatever elliptical you buy get it the same size as the main you jump now Let's suppose I'm shopping for a 9-cell elliptical or semi-elliptical. Would this still apply if I'm going from a Diablo? Just curious.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanEHdian 0 #8 August 28, 2002 Thanks to those who have provided info... still would like to hear from more if possible, before this thread gets completely hi-jacked (haven't heard from the Crossfire2 pilots yet)... ...ultimately helping me decide on what would be a better First Elliptical for me. Thanks again, CanEHdianTime's flying, and so am I... (69-way, 108-way and 138/142-way Freefly World Records) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #9 August 29, 2002 Quotehaven't heard from the Crossfire2 pilots yet Where's Rhino? He REALLY likes his. I haven't flown any of these canopies so I'll shut up now.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #10 August 29, 2002 >I haven't flown any of these canopies so I'll shut up now No.. but you could have jumped at least 2 of them at WFFC... One other thing I forgot in my earlier post... With the airlocks I got drug on the ground after not being able to collapse the canopy fast enough on a windy day. Its a learned thing I guess but one other thing to keep in mind...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #11 August 29, 2002 QuoteNo.. but you could have jumped at least 2 of them at WFFC... True...but from a safety aspect I'd rather demo stuff at home. I had enough "boogie fever" going with hooks on my own canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #12 August 29, 2002 Quote The negative recovery arc is great. It allows you to get off the front risers at a higher altitude and maintain momentum until the flare. I completely agree with you. This is something that is difficult to explain to someone who has never had the chance to experience it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #13 August 30, 2002 QuoteTrue...but from a safety aspect I'd rather demo stuff at home. I had enough "boogie fever" going with hooks on my own canopy. Yup. I've really been wanting to check out a Crossfire2 in a 175-180-ish size but the WFFC was not the place I wanted to try that at. KrisSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
