Bag lock and other Mals

[CanuckInUSA 0]

This weekend I received a VHS copy of "Breakaway" an instructional tape of managing malfunctions and I just wanted to make a few observations and maybe get some opinions from the more experienced jumpers here on DZ.
First off, bag lock appears to be one of the more dangerous malfunctions which we may encounter, but it is also something that can be avoided thanks to good packing practices. But it's my understanding that bag lock is not something you can cut away (due to the risers still being stowed in the containers) and one must immediately pull the reserve and hope that the main doesn't also deploy (which it very well might). Now it's also my understanding that as long as our mains and reserves are of similar sizes, then even if two canopies deploy, it will develop into a bi-plane or a side-by-side deployment (neither of which is a total emergency). But if the main and reserves are of different sizes by a considerable amount, then the more dangerous "planeing" could develop (in which case you must cutaway the main before the rest of your life flashes before your eyes).
Opinions anyone?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Bag lock = chop then reserve. There's a big risk of entanglement if you don't. That's what I've always been told to do and I will should it happen.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[hobbes4star 0]

i was taught the same thing. chop than reserve. that way if the reserve forces the main out it will have less chance of entangling. this is just what i was taught and i have no experiance with this kind of mal.

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

That's what I thought, but they weren't doing this in the video. I think the main message in the video was that you're not supposed to waste time in trying to fix the bag lock. But I would think that it's good practice to get into cutting away every major mal before deploying the reserve.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Quote

you're not supposed to waste time in trying to fix the bag lock

I'd rather not waste time by thinking "do I chop, or just go to the reserve". Just go for it.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[Jimbo 0]

I can't remember what they taught about bag lock in the FJC, but I've decided that should I experience this particular malfunction I will cutaway. The inflated pilot chute should have enough drag to get the risers out of the container.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

bag lock is not something you can cut away (due to the risers still being stowed in the containers)

A bag lock occurs when the p/c is thrown, the container opens, the bag leaves the container (and the risers come out of the riser covers), but the canopy never comes out of the bag. Chop it, then pull the reserve.

I think you're talking about a pilot chute in tow. In that case the pilot chute is thrown but the container never opens. There has been and likely always will be spirited debate about whether or not to cutaway when you have a p/c in tow.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Ah yes (my mistake), it was probably the pilot chute in towm they were talking about. After all I did get the video from you guys at SQUARE1 (and where's my rig ... just kidding).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[weid14 0]

you might be confusing a bag lock with a PC in tow a bag lock will be over your head and chances are you'll be standing up cause the drag on the PC will slow you down enough to do that, if/when you cut away, you'll probably do some sort of flip. this is the kind of mal you cut away from. the other, more scary situation is a horseshoe (which a bag lock may be part of) that's what you may be thinking of.

[riggerrob 558]

Yes, horseshoe type malfunctions are really scary. Your first move - once you recognize a horseshoe is to toss your pilotchute.
Your second move should be to pray that you rmain opens properly. It probably will open properly if you toss your pilotchute early enough.
The normal third step is to look up at a !@##$$ mess.
The fourth step is to pull your cutaway handle, closely followed by your reserve ripcord.

[goose491 0]

Quote

I think the main message in the video was that you're not supposed to waste time in trying to fix the bag lock.

I don't know. I had a bag lock situation which was quickly remedied by a semi-violent tug on the rear risers... Had it not worked, I don't think I would have kicked myself for having wasted the time trying (my hands were already on the risers mind-you) I've heard a few similar success stories since.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Craig 0]

Quote

Yes, horseshoe type malfunctions are really scary. Your first move - once you recognize a horseshoe is to toss your pilotchute.
Your second move should be to pray that you rmain opens properly. It probably will open properly if you toss your pilotchute early enough.
The normal third step is to look up at a !@##$$ mess.
The fourth step is to pull your cutaway handle, closely followed by your reserve ripcord.

Of all the mals I think this would have to be the worst (ruling out double mals). One thing to remember is that the BOC pouch is NOT going to be where you are used to finding it. All this providing that the horseshoe is container open, bag out, and PC in its pouch. From what I understand cutting away may not help much if there is not enough drag to release the 3-rings. FWIW this is not to say you shouldn't cut away.

[Hooknswoop 19]

I think you are confusing “Baglock” with “Horseshoe”. For a horseshoe malfunction, make two attempts to throw/untangle the PC and if un-successful, cutaway and pull the reserve.

Similarly sized canopies will fly better than dis-similarly sized canopies. That being said, many factors determine how the canopies will fly together in a two-out situation: sizes, material, shape, wing-loading, deployment order, control inputs, line lengths. Predicting how two different canopies will fly together is difficult.

Hook

[dterrick 0]

Here in the Great White North (Canada, eh?) the standard scenario is ALWAYS cutaway. Part of this is CSPA BSR's re TAS RSL and AAD but it sticks with you.

I had to chop on jump #20 on opening weekend. PC in tow (5 count, nothing, main tray still full, p/c gone) and the re-pull action de-burbled me. I was already on the handles when activation started - but the Cruiselite actually SNIVELLED on me.

Did I chop, or did I simltaneously experience inflation - and thus unintnetionally cutaway from inertia? I still don't know because the RSL beat my reserve pull. Either way, if I had simply pulled reserve I'd likely have had 2 out and a totally different issue to deal with.

After 99 jumps (and 100 deployments ), and 23 consecutive weekends at DZ, I 've heard and seen lots of opinions. I've watched Cutaway too, and have heard the dissenting comments on some of their 'gospel'. In fairness, they DO offer both sides of the coin on most issues. However, the most basic (again FJC grounding) premise is

...if it's not there and square, then it is bad, chop chop... If I found myself at terminal below 1500 with no Cypres I bet I'd still cutaway.


PULL ALTITUDE is also important in a high speed mal. My Raven (let's face it, it's a Reserve designed to open fast) has taken all my Master Rigger's tricks to slow it down and to do so with consistency. Until this weekend, we were in the "it opens like a Sabre" range. But, this weekend, I had TWO 1,000 foot snivels consecutively.

Now I understand most or all the side issues around RW and pull altitudes but if I were waiting till 2200 and then had a Super-Snivel...

a) I think I'd be scared shitless and go for a riser tug if not right for the handles (already on them as a habit from Spank-O-Rama and RW canopy avoidence drills)

b) I'd want to know that I had NO possibility of having 2 out by accident.

A Cypres is now withing firing range and it cares not about the main.

A straight reserve deployment might dump the reserve into an opening main making a real mess - not cool. After all, there is not generally an option 3. If a successful reserve deployment is dependent on the "extra" 1 second (and 174 ft +/-) it takes to locate the cutaway pillow you may as well be playing Russian Roulette. Ok, OK that's harsh, but DAMMIT there's no 'pause' button on Gravity.

...and it's very poor form to go in without every handle pulled!


$0.02 (Cdn)
Blue Skies
Dave Terrick
...your first cutaway is like your second Birthday...!

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)