Tandem Mains

[Hooknswoop 19]

Tandem mains have gone from huge, square, F-111 monsters to smaller, zero-P, fully elliptical canopies with one example having a maximum wing loading of 1.5:1. They have followed the same path as sport mains, lagging behind by several years.
Why have they changed? To answer that question you have to ask several more; Who buy’s tandem canopies? What do the buyers look for in a tandem main? Who is actually flying the tandem main?
Who’s buying?
Drop zone owners mostly and some independent instructors that either get paid extra to jump their own tandem rig and/or travel with their tandem rig from drop zone to drop zone.
What are they looking for?
Costs are a big factor in what to buy. There are several ways of looking at the cost of a tandem main. Initial cost is a consideration. A tandem main that opens reliable is cheaper in that it costs less for reserve re-packs, the tandem rig is out of service for the re-pack less often, less loss of business because of a malfunction, less chance of losing the canopy, and less chance of losing the reserve free-bag. How the canopy holds up to wear and tear and how long of a life span does it have helps determine the long term cost of the canopy. A tandem main that is very old may malfunction more often and may not land as nice as a new one and will have to be replaced. More jumps before having to replace it equates to a lower cost-per-jump. A tandem main that lands poorly can cost the drop zone lawsuits resulting from landing injuries. A canopy that opens hard can result in injured tandem instructors or passengers or cause damage to the canopy, which can cost the owner money.
So tandem owners are looking for a main that is in-expensive, opens nice and reliably, holds up to wear, lands nicely over it’s life span, is safe, and has a long life span.
Who’s doing the flying?
Mostly Instructors that work for drop zones as independent contractors. They have a minimum of 500 jumps and three years in the sport. They generally have good, to very good canopy piloting skills and probably most jump elliptical canopies in their sport rigs. They must maintain a level of currency to keep their tandem instructor’s rating valid.
Conclusion:
In the hands of a current, experienced instructor and canopy pilot, a somewhat smaller zero-P elliptical canopy at a moderate (less than1.5) wing loading is a better choice than a large, square, F-111 canopy.
Hook

[billvon 2,400]

>Tandem mains have gone from huge, square, F-111 monsters to smaller, zero-P,
>fully elliptical canopies with one example having a maximum wing loading of 1.5:1.
Yep. I did my first tandem under a 520 sq ft F111 canopy that seemed to mal 1 in 10 times and landed poorly. Within two years I was jumping a 400 sq ft ZP elliptical canopy that opened better, lasted longer, and landed better than the original.
-bill von

[cobaltdan 0]

zp tandems are more expensive than f111.
but a tandem canopy is a work tool. it makes you money and ultimately the higher cost of a zp canopy up front yields a higher return, as the zp canopy can greatly out live and out service an f111.
purchase price should not be of first concern when choosing tandem equipment. the difference between cheap junk and the best equipment when spread over its money producing lifetime is negligble.
be sure not to be penny wise, pound foolish.
sincerely,
dan
atair
ps. we have some great video of our tandems canopies posted on our web site www.extremefly.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

"zp tandems are more expensive than f111.
but a tandem canopy is a work tool. it makes you money and ultimately the higher cost of a zp canopy up front yields a higher return, as the zp canopy can greatly out live and out service an f111.
purchase price should not be of first concern when choosing tandem equipment. the difference between cheap junk and the best equipment when spread over its money producing lifetime is negligble"
Right, which is why I said:
"How the canopy holds up to wear and tear and how long of a life span does it have helps determine the long term cost of the canopy. A tandem main that is very old may malfunction more often and may not land as nice as a new one and will have to be replaced. More jumps before having to replace it equates to a lower cost-per-jump."
Zero-P tandem mains are cheaper in the long run, even if they cost more initially. That is why the industry is going/has gone to Zero-P tandem mains.
Hook

[cobaltdan 0]

hook : just backing you up
-dan

[Hooknswoop 19]

Oops, I mis-read your post, sorry Dan :-)
Do you think we will ever see X-braced tandem mains?
Hook

[skybytch 259]

All my tandems were on 421 and 500 sq ft F111 mains, and I can say with complete sincerity.... they suck! I was lucky in that we had good packers - no mals in 120 jumps - but the landings weren't always pretty and the toggle pressure was a bitch.
If I were buying a tandem rig today, I'd definitely agree with your conclusion and buy tandem rigs with up to date, zp main canopies.
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Good post, Derek.
Man, I sure am glad we have nice mains to jump nowadays! We have everything from an ancient HiLifter 360 in an equally old Vector all the way up to a smacky-booty Sigma and everything in between. I also put the original test jumps on Dan's Competition Cobalt 350 tandem (which kicks complete ass). Still, when the DZ is busy I don't mind sucking it up and jumping our very-oldest original Vector tandem rig with the 360 HiLifter, so long as there is a slight breeze or I am jumping smallish passengers. I am not a big dude, so it doesn't matter much to me. As a swooper, though, I really dig the ZP tandem mains; especially the ones with low toggle pressure.
I agree completely that paying the extra bucks for a righteous ZP tandem main is smart. That being said, my choices are the Cobalt, the Sigma, and the Icarus, in that order. My least favorite ZP's nowadays are SET's and EZ's, though I would obviously choose either of those over an old PD 421 or a tandem 500. It is SO much easier to safely land the new mains, whether you slide in or flare to a complete stop.
Chuck

My webpage HERE

[TEB6363 0]

I was jumping a new (3 jumps) Sigma 370 main this weekend. Wooo Hooo, nice canopy!!!
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!

[slotperfect 7]

The biggie for me on the Sigma 370 is the light toggle pressure. The performance is, of course, AWESOME, but when you make multiple tandems in one day with a PD421 or Master 425 it tends to send you home with your shoulders smoking.
Chuck is the man, just for the record.
Respectfully,
SP

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

No, John, you are the man. I am the Monkey. You, as a big guy, have it much easier than I do at the end of the day. Actually, I don't bitch too much, so you must be getting soft. I am going to have to report you to Kris.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[riggerrob 558]

We have 10 SET 400 canopies in Pitt Meadows and one remaining F-111. Despite the fact that the F-111 canopy has new lines and is well behaved, it sits in the corner collecting dust.
My first thousand tandems were on F-111 canopies. I had 15 reserve rides, three injured students and landed way more torn canopies than I care to remember. Despite the fact that my boss provides medical insurance, this job does not pay well enough for me to jump F-111.

[rhino 0]

I thought there already was a crossbraced tandem main??? I guess I may be wrong?
Blue Skies .....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Negative. There is not currently a crossbraced tandem main. An interesting rumor, though, was one I heard last year at the pond swoop nationals. It was said that two people had asked Icarus to build a VX 220 (it was either 200, 220, or 240, I forget.) so they could swoop it in the meet in a tandem rig. I was standing right there when they were talking about it, but it would have been strictly prohibited by the current rules. The rules, of course, changed two years ago when the guy landed a slalom ski, didn't cut away in time, and piled into the crowd. Unless I am mistaken, it was Tim Bernard.
Still, a tiny tandem main with two balsy swoopers would make for some killer video.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[riggerrob 558]

"killer" being the operative word.