So new... So much to learn.

[iynx 0]

Well, last week I made my grad jump and got off student status. I'm so new, it's embarassing. Well, I've done as much research as I can in the past few days, and have a few questions.
First off, I've been jumping (For the last 7 jumps) in a Triathalon 190. My exit weight's probably about 180 or so.
I don't plan on buying a rig anytime soon, but I've been checking them out as much as I can. From what I've found, I'm thinking I'll eventually get something along the lines of a Sabre 180 or maybe even 170.
Ideally, I'm looking for a 9 cell, semi-elliptical, ZP, about 175-190 ft^2 main. I'm not sure if having a throw-out pilot chute is part of the container or the parachute itself, but I'd want that, too. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your time and your patience. Being a newbie sucks, especially when you're a poor newbie.

[skybytch 259]

Congrats on getting off student status! Based on your exit weight, I'd think a 190 would be an excellent first main. If you can afford new, a Sabre2 would fit your requirements - nine cell, semi-elliptical zp (not many Sabre2's on the used market yet). Others in this category include the Hornet and Safire/Safire II. The original Sabre is rectangular in shape but is also a nine cell zp canopy.
Throw out main p/c is pretty standard on containers; very few are built with anything but that (other main deployment systems include ripcord and pull out). fyi, a main canopy comes new with lines, links and slider; a brand new container comes with reserve ripcord, cutaway handle, reserve freebag/bridle and pilot chute, reserve toggles (reserve risers are ingrated into the harness), main risers and toggles, main d-bag/bridle, main pilot chute, and everything needed to install a Cypres.
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[iynx 0]

Sweet, thanks for the help.
Also, (Not that I couldn't ask this of my instructor at my DZ, but seeing as how I'm already here..) where can one learn the requirements for an A license? Are there classes to sign up for to learn how to pack a chute? And when I eventually get my first rig, and purchase the Cypress, can I put it in myself, or should a certified rigger do it?

[skybytch 259]

Quote

where can one learn the requirements for an A license?

If you're in the US - The USPA website has a downloadable version of the Skydivers Information Manual (SIM) - you'll find all the answers to USPA related questions there (licenses, ratings, safety recommendations, etc). If your connection is slow you can buy it at many gear dealers or through USPA. You'll need to have and study a copy of the SIM to pass the written test for any USPA license.

Quote

Are there classes to sign up for to learn how to pack a chute?

Depends on your dz. Ask your instructor, the local rigger or the dzo.

Quote

And when I eventually get my first rig, and purchase the Cypress, can I put it in myself, or should a certified rigger do it?

The main part of the Cypres lives in the reserve container. Have a rigger do that for you.
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[drenaline 0]

I agree with Lisa a 110% get yourself a 190 main. Don't do the mistake I did in getting a bad choice of main size and now I have to be 200% aware of what am doing.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[iynx 0]

Thank you both so much. Your help is appreciated.

[Kirils 1]

Good advice from Skybitch! The Hornet is a GREAT starter canopy, when sized properly! The color coded lines really help prevent packing problems and boost packing confidence.
My recommendation would a 170 or above. The Hornet has a wide performance range and will challenge you for years! As a new jumper, don't let anyone pressure you into a smaller canopy. A small canopy dosen't mean you are cool or a better pilot... there is just a smaller margin for error!
Good luck, and welcome to the world of skydiving!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[riggerrob 558]

About learning to pack:
Two videos are available from Pier Media: "Pack Like a Pro" and "Trouble Free Zero P."
I reviewed PLP a few years ago and thought it was great! Also, some manufacturers publish packing manuals on line. Try going to www.pia.com and searching the yellow pages under manufacturers.
Ask a local instructor or rigger to look over your shoulder the first half-dozen times you pack. Hint, they will probably only have the time to teach packing on rainy days.

[airdrew20012001 0]

Quote

I agree with Lisa a 110% get yourself a 190 main

I don't. Not because she isn't right, but more because I am a difficult person.
Drewfus McDoofus

[billvon 2,400]

>First off, I've been jumping (For the last 7 jumps) in a Triathalon 190. My exit
>weight's probably about 180 or so.
>I don't plan on buying a rig anytime soon . . .
Good! You'll have time to really learn to fly that 190. The Tri-190 at your loading (a little under 1 to 1) is a good canopy to learn on. Make sure you can really control the canopy - flat turn, flare turn, front and rear riser turns, landing crosswind and uphill/downhill - before you downsize. Those things are much easier to learn on a canopy you're not afraid of.
>From what I've found, I'm thinking I'll eventually get something along the lines of a
> Sabre 180 or maybe even 170.
The Sabre line goes from 190 to 170; but both would be good choices once you're ready.
>Thanks for your time and your patience. Being a newbie sucks, especially when
>you're a poor newbie.
Given that, I'd strongly suggest a used Sabre 190 or equivalent when you're ready to buy. You will likely downsize again, after say 100 jumps or so, and at that point you will have a much better idea exactly what you want in a new canopy. Since they're running close to $2000 nowadays it's good to be sure before you buy a new one. I would also recommend a canopy course as soon as you can afford it, either an official one (like the one at Perris) or an unofficial one (based either on the ISP manuevers or someone else's experience.) It will both let you get more out of your current canopy and make you safer under any new canopy you will buy.
-bill von

[Scoby 0]

I fall into the really, really new category. I currently have 19 jumps. Since transitioning to hand-deploy, I've been jumping the PD260. Should I be looking for a canopy control class now, or should I get some more jumps under my belt first? I'm not too far off from an A license, so I'm looking forward to wandering from my home drop zone a bit (I have a feeling it's gonna feel like cheating). I live in LA, so I have some options. Should I drive out to Perris and take classes? Are there other socal dropzones with similar classes? What is involved in renting gear at most DZs? Sorry, I have lots of questions.
What is a good sign that one is ready to go down a size? I was surprised by how noticable going from 300 to 280 was, and then again to 260. While I'm having plenty of fun right now, I'd like to get a little more forward progress into the wind. I'd like to be able to get to a 170 or so for my first purchased canopy (exit weight is about 180, is this realistic?), but I'm willing to go as slowly as possible to do this safely. How should I approach it? How many jumps should I have at each size before moving on? Or should I have specific goals to achieve at each size?
I am having such a blast right now. Skydiving is the most amazing activity I have ever participated in. I intend to do it for as long as possible, and so I'm going to be as careful as one can be (while still throwing oneself out of a plane at altitude). Thanks in advance!

[iynx 0]

Well, I'm in your category, I've only about 10 jumps. My exit weights about the same as yours (~180) and I jump a Triathalon 190. So a 170 isn't gonna be all that dangerous for you. Just be prepared to notice a HUGE difference in maneuverability and speed. Going from 280 to 170 would be something wholley new. I jump in Lodi, CA at the Parachute Center, if you're gonna be heading in that direction. People there are really nice and very helpful. But, like I said, I'm still very new at this, and it can never hurt to get response from more experienced jumpers.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience?- well, that comes from poor judgement.

[PhreeZone 15]

Head to Perris and Evolution soon. Break any bad habits you have before you get them ingrained into your flying. That and waiting till you get you own gear is not going to help you become a better pilot with out instruction then learning the proper skills are with instruction.
If I had a place like Perris near me like you do.. I'd take as much advantage of it as I could....
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Well, I'm in your category, I've only about 10 jumps. My exit weights about the same as yours (~180) and I jump a Triathalon 190. So a 170 isn't gonna be all that dangerous for you. Just be prepared to notice a HUGE difference in maneuverability and speed. Going from 280 to 170 would be something wholley new. I jump in Lodi, CA at the Parachute Center, if you're gonna be heading in that direction. People there are really nice and very helpful. But, like I said, I'm still very new at this, and it can never hurt to get response from more experienced jumpers.

Dude. You've got what, 10 jumps, maybe 20?
I hate to break it to you, but you are in no position to be giving advice about canopy selection to a new jumper.
Here's the standard, and probably best answer you'll get when concerned about what to get for your first canopy. Ask your instructors or the S&TA at your home DZ. The only ones who can supply you with a recommendation that means ANYTHING are those who have seen you jump, or more importantly land, and have had the chance to evaluate your skill level first hand, in person.
-
Jim

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

What is a good sign that one is ready to go down a size?

A good place for you to be right now is somewhere around a 1.0 or 1.1 wingloading.
This means, if you weigh 170 pounds naked, add 30 pounds for clothes and gear, gives you 200. Flying a 200 square foot canopy would be a 1.0 wing loading. A 190 square foot canopy, would be about a 1.1 wingloading.
Your goal should be to downsize, one canopy size at a time until you get to 1.1. Do at least a few jumps on each canopy before you downsize, doing more jumps on the smaller canopies. Work with your instructors throughout this process.
Once you get to 1.1, stop there. Do at least a hundred jumps at 1.1 before you think of downsizing again.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[iynx 0]

I'll readily admit that I'm probably not one to give advice. But don't just thrust me aside as if I know nothing. If anything, I've spent the last week spending all my time trying to get as much information as I can. I have learned more in the last week about skydiving, than I have in the last month in school. My response was based upon what others of this place have told me, and what I've researched. I even said at the end of my last post, it's best to get a response from more experienced jumpers.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience?- well, that comes from poor judgement.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Should I drive out to Perris and take classes?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Like others have said, do it now; don't wait. There's plenty of time to learn about flying your body in freefall; flying and landing your canopy is a survival skill. Get good at it now. The money you spend on the canopy school may be the best money you'll spend in your skydiving career.

Quote

What is involved in renting gear at most DZs?

I don't know about other dz's, but at Perris go directly to Square One and talk to Blue, Frank, Brenda or Tristan. They'll ask you to sign a huge waiver and they'll talk about equipment with you. You can rent a complete rig (container, reserve, Cypres and main) for $65 per day (unlimited # jumps). They have a large selection of containers and mains to choose from; you can mix and match - try out a Spectre one day, a Sabre2 the next, etc. And they have mains sized from 230 down to super dinky, one size at a time, so you can safely get from the 260's you've been jumping to a size that will be realistic for your body weight and experience (which, imho, would be about a 190... but I haven't seen you fly and land a canopy).
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[PhreeZone 15]

>But don't just thrust me aside as if I know nothing
I've got 320 some odd jumps, half way to getting my riggers ticket, only need a few sigs and teach a FJC and I'm a coach... you know what I admit I don't know SHIT in this sport....
A lot of the AFF-I's and TM's out there only know enough to pass their jump course and are not qualified to teach a lot of the things that they try to teach. Most should'nt be teaching HP canopy flight, advanced RW, freeflying or half the other things they try to teach to people.
Attitude kills faster then most people think it can in this sport....
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[iynx 0]

Not to sound defensive, but I'm not trying to say I know everything or even most things. But when Jimbo says I'm in no position to give any sort of advice at all, it's a little offensive. I may be new, but I like to think my research has at least given the right give some sort of worthy advice, eh?
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience?- well, that comes from poor judgement.

[PhreeZone 15]

The only people that should ever give canopy advice are people that actually can critique the jumpers landings and are their Jumpmaster, are gear sales people with years of experience or those jumpers with hundreds of jumps that are trying to talk them into something larger and safer.
In the case of expericened jumpers... its the same thing till a few hundred jumps. then take advice to heart from your other jumpers and not keep asking till some one tells you what you want to hear.....
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[iynx 0]

I'll remember that, thank you.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience?- well, that comes from poor judgement.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Not to sound defensive, but I'm not trying to say I know everything or even most things. But when Jimbo says I'm in no position to give any sort of advice at all, it's a little offensive. I may be new, but I like to think my research has at least given the right give some sort of worthy advice, eh?

Let's get one thing straight here, I said you're in no position to be giving advice about canopy selection to another jumper.
I said that because you're not. I'm not trying to put you down, but the reality is that no matter how much research you've done and no matter how much you've read here, and no matter how much people have told you you're still not in a position to give out advice about canopy selection to another young skydiver. That kind of information needs to come from the people who jump with him and the people who have evaluated his abilities. To tell a new jumper that going from a 280 to 170 "isn't gonna be all that dangerous for you" is just wrong. You've never seen him jump, you don't know his limits, you don't know anything about him. The reality is that at this stage of your skydiving career you are in no position to be giving any sort of advice about canopy selection to anyone.
-
Jim

[iynx 0]

Yes, I've figured that out, by now. I posted a response about 2 or 3 below this that says this. I appologize again for my ignorance.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience?- well, that comes from poor judgement.

[billvon 2,400]

>Should I be looking for a canopy control class now, or should I get some more
> jumps under my belt first?
No, the sooner the better. Canopy schools can generally take people at any level, and in some ways, the earlier you start, the less you have to unlearn.
>What is a good sign that one is ready to go down a size?
(I should make a FAQ for this)
If you can:
Flat turn 90 degrees at 50-200 feet (depending on canopy size)
Flare turn 45-90 degrees
Land crosswind
Land uphill and downhill
Turn with rear risers, front risers and your body (depending on canopy size)
Initiate a high performance landing with double fronts/turn to land
Flare with rear risers
You are probably ready to downsize.
-bill von

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

If you can:
Flat turn 90 degrees at 50-200 feet (depending on canopy size)
Flare turn 45-90 degrees
Land crosswind
Land uphill and downhill
Turn with rear risers, front risers and your body (depending on canopy size)
Initiate a high performance landing with double fronts/turn to land
Flare with rear risers
You are probably ready to downsize.

Do you think this applies equally to someone with 19 jumps, not yet off student status, but probably working down from that Raven4 down to a 1.0 wingloading?
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999