Off-heading openings on Sabre2

[FeFe 0]

Demoed Sabre2-135 this weekend, loaded at 1,35. On each of 8 jumps I managed to make on it (until I had to cutaway from a bag-lock - different story ) the canopy tended to deploy off-heading - when sliders was half-down/completely down the lines, canopy dived 90-180 degrees to the right. I had a feeling that the slower were the opening, the stronger was the turn. I am used to compensate off-heading openings on my Spectre by leaning in my harness (I normally transit to sit on deployment). Did not work this time with Sabre - the only way to compensate was to grab rear risers quickly, pull them apart and steer.
My first idea was uneven harness loading, so I paid special attention to it. I am sure that (at least most of the time) I was perfectly stable and even. All packing tricks which used to work fine for original Sabre or my Spectre did not make any difference.
Two other skydivers at my dropzone who jump moderately loaded Sabre2 (one 120, another 135) complain about the same problem.
Any feedback?
bs
PS. nice canopy though… will try 120 next week…

[AggieDave 6]

I put almost 20 jumps on a Sabre2 190 loaded at 1.45 during the past 3 weeks, but didn't have quite the same problem that you did. I did have a couple openings that were very squirrelly, one whipped me around 360 degrees very very quickly (think snap hook) and other I really had to fly the harness on opening. However, for the most part I would say that the Sabre2 opening pretty consistantly. That *did* depend on how I packed and how I opened though. The worst openings were when a packer packed for me.
I remember hearing about some of the first Sabre2's having that exact problem, though, with the diving right turn on opening. The one I jumped was made only a few months ago, it wasn't one of the first production, so I don't know if maybe you had one of the Sabre2's that I heard about or if that is even true.
The point I'm trying to make, is that I didn't experence that when I jumped one and I heard that the first Sabre2's made had that problem.
Aerials
So up high
When you free your lives (the) eternal prize

[Shark 0]

Welcome to the world of Sabre2 openings.I demo'd a 170 and a 150, and probably 70 percent of the openings were "weird" and off-heading. (40 jumps or so.) I found out that there are "stiffeners" on the center cells, a modification because of some erratic openings. It got better when I changed my packing style and after I got an email from John LeBlanc. But by then I had to send it back. Just leave the nose hanging and not push it in. I also ended up buying another Spectre. I'm just a 7 cell dude, but may get the 150 Sabre2 if I go to a 9.

[diver123 0]

aggivedave. you said you were loading a 190 at 1.45 ? That means you're like 275 out the door??? A rig doesn't usually weigh more than 25 lbs so that puts your body weight at 250 ish? Is that correct?
"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[AggieDave 6]

Yup, I'm currently at about 247ish butt naked...I should have that back down to a hard 225 by the end of the summer though.
This does make demoing different canopies hard, i.e. I really want to demo a Cobalt, but the largest one they make is a 170, which is waaaay to loaded for my experience. Aerials
So up high
When you free your lives (the) eternal prize

[ltdiver 3]

FeFe,
I also had a similar problem with a Sabre2 I demoed. The openings were so squirley that I decided against buying one. Sometimes diving to one side so aggresively that it induced line twists! Like you, I also paid special attention to body position and packing. Nothing seemed to help. That canopy, come to find out, was one of the first production Sabre2's. I waited until a brand new Sabre2 came on-line later to demo, and that one was much better. Still had irratic openings at times, but not near the 'fear factor' that the first one gave me.
I also wrote to John LeBlanc. Here is his answer back to me:

Quote

Thanks for the feedback on the Sabre2 demo openings. It certainly sounds unusual.

The Sabre2 is a bit more sensitive to body position than the original Sabre, mainly due to the slower inflation. You already seem to be very aware of what's going on in this respect, however. The only issue in packing that I have seen cause problems is that many people are still shoving the nose into the center of the pack job, which is unnecessary and tends to cause the lines to spread away from the center of the packjob. This can lead to wandering openings.

In this case, it might be more likely that there is something off on this specific canopy. Did you get the demo canopy from us directly, or was it a demo from one of our dealers? I would like to track down the canopy and investigate further.

Thanks again for letting us know. I really appreciate your detailed notes on the openings.

John LeBlanc

Hope this helps.
Oh, btw, I also jump a Spectre-135 loaded at 1.3.
ltdiver
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[skymama 35]

I love my Sabre2 170, but it is back at PD right now because of the same problem. The strange thing was that I had about 30 jumps on it before I started having the off heading openings. I started having end-cell closure on one side too that would fix when I unstowed the brakes, but those 2 problems were giving me the creeps because they started happening suddenly. It has been test jumped, and the test jumper also experienced 2 off heading openings. It is back at "customer service" right now, and I'll let you know what happens after they test it again. In the meantime, PD gave me a nice Spectre 170 to use, and I've really enjoyed those openings!
Andrea
I'm high as a kite
I just might
Stop and check you out.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

that would fix when I unstowed the brakes,

Very interesting! Unstowing the brakes was the only thing that fixed the openings when the diving and spinning would start. Yes, please let me know what PD finds and fixes with your canopy.
I really loved the landings on the Sabre2-135 I was demoing, but the openings were just scaring the bejesus outta me. Had to grab the rear risers to stop the hard turn from gaining on me, then unstow the brakes (while holding the oppropriate rear riser to keep the canopy on heading while I did that).
ltdiver
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[FeFe 0]

Thanks for the feedback, folks.
Yes, the Sabre2 I demoed was one from the first production. Yes, it may dive hard to induce line-twists (a skysurfer from my DZ had to cutaway once because of the problem).
I never push nose in anyway (otherwise my Spectre may snivel forever ).
Andrea, I would also appreciate results when you get your canopy back from PD.
BS
PS. Lory, bro'! Since we are jumping same canopies at same loadings - didn't you get a feeling that Sabre2-135 flies something 'bigger' than same size Spectre? On my first jump on it I even had a suspicion it was a 150... I will demo 120 in a week. Will keep posted.

[Cessnadog 0]

This thread is very interesting to me. Had my first malfunction last weekend (1200 jumps). Had to cut away a Sabre 2 170 that was spinning on opening. Canopy looked fine except for the line twist…. Yes, I had pushed the nose back into the canopy while packing.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

PS. Lory, bro'! Since we are jumping same canopies at same loadings - didn't you get a feeling that Sabre2-135 flies something 'bigger' than same size Spectre? On my first jump on it I even had a suspicion it was a 150... I will demo 120 in a week. Will keep posted.

Yes, the Sabre2 seemed to fly slower than my Spectre of the same size. However, I attributed it to the fact that the brake lines were set a bit shorter on it than I had on my own canopy. The flare was AWESOME, though. Landings were GREAT. That is why I was so interested in changing canopies.
The landings on my Spectre-135, in hot, no wind conditions, just aren't the best. Kind of loses the ability to plane out. The Sabre2 gave me a very nice surf that seemed to go on forever...then just gently let me touch down and walk away. Now, if we could only figure out what the openings are up to...
btw, I had a rigger check the Sabre2-135 I was demoing (the first one) and everything came back within specs. Even though the brake lines were 4" too short (in mine and other AFFI's opinion).
I hesitate to try the 120 due to the fact that if the 135 behaved so badly, and on so many jumps, wouldn't a smaller canopy (with a higher wing loading) do just to the same....only MORE SO?
ltdiver
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[PhillyKev 0]

I have about 25 jumps on a Saber2 190 loaded at 1.16:1. 10 of those are on a demo from S3 when they first came out, the last 15 on the one I purchased in March. I had one spanking hard opening, but no off heading openings, and maybe a half a line twist once. Suprised to hear about so many problems with it.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I've been having the same problem as well, until a friend demostrated how he pulls the 'spaghetti' up towards the bag when stowing lines, rather than milking the excess down the lines (as I was taught). Since I am still working on this as a new addition to my packing technique - my opennings are varying somewhat in speed but have been consistently on heading since changing to this method of stowing the lines - something to consider?

[PhillyKev 0]

I stand corrected. Had 2 diving openings this weekend. I wonder if it's just that this canopy, being semi-elliptical, is less forgiving of poor body position at opening than the specter I jumped before it.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[tobiasz 0]

you must learn to packing parachute to the bag and to container. that's all. i jumping on my sabre 2 and i love it.

[skymama 35]

Update on my Sabre 2....
I talked to PD today. My Sabre 2 is being relined, along with 3 other canopies that were having the same problem. They told me they spent a lot of R & D on it, and the results just came back yesterday. It will be test jumped again later on this week. I'll let you know what happens.
Andrea
I'm high as a kite
I just might
Stop and check you out.

[flyhi 24]

Quote

I talked to PD today. My Sabre 2 is being relined, along with 3 other canopies that were having the same problem.

Vuja De, Skymama! Our canopies are canoodling! I called about my Vengeance today and they said it was also being relined because of diving, turning openings (Separate post this forum). They said it would take about a week more. Wonder what this will do to the riser-pressure. I thought it was a little high before and then I jumped a Stilleto which confirmed it. Still nice though.flyhi

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

I talked to PD today. My Sabre 2 is being relined...
They told me they spent a lot of R & D on it, and the results just came back yesterday.

So...what did they tell you the problem was coming from? Why did your canopy need relining? Lots of R&D means they got more than a few reports of opening hiccups.
ltdiver
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[bbarnhouse 0]

I jumped a Sabre2 135 loaded @ 1:1; a demo from S2. Each jump had the same result. An off heading 180 degrees to the right.
My friend has had the same issue with her 150. i hope they rectify the situation as I really like this canopy and would like to own one.
Cheers