eames 0 #26 March 22, 2002 QuoteI have my own seal; it's my ass and since I'm a rigger I can sign it off every 120 days. I know many riggers who do the same thing, including one who never has a reserve repacked - his gets assembled then stays in the container until it's used (once it's used he gets rid of it and buys another).Yeah, I know of quite a few riggers that illegally pencil pack reserves too. I just don't know of many who boast about their violations of FAA regulations in a public forum. Maybe the repack cycle should be longer... but it isn't yet. Wow, you make a great moderator for the Gear and Rigging forum.Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #27 March 22, 2002 Ask around to riggers.... not many actually repack their own rigs on the 120 days... I believe the actual wording is the reserve must be repacked in accourdence to the makers specfications every 120 days... now if the maker of the canopy does not specifically state you have to pull the canopy out and repack it completly then technically you are not breaking an FAR.I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #28 March 22, 2002 QuoteWow, you make a great moderator for the Gear and Rigging forum.My duties as moderator involve attempting to keep the threads on topic. Don't see what that has to do with how I maintain my rig.pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #29 March 22, 2002 Quoterepacked in accourdence to the makers specfications every 120 days...Nope.... That only applies to the AAD:Sec. 105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger.(b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger--(1) Within 120 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or(2) Within 60 days before the date of its use, if it is composed of any amount of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or material not specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section.(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #30 March 22, 2002 QuoteDon't see what that has to do with how I maintain my rig.No, I guess it has nothing to do with that. But on this page it says, "This forum is being moderated by a Senior Rigger." I guess that's not supposed to convince us that we're getting sound advice.... Hmm.Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #31 March 22, 2002 Alan is the main moderator in here... Lisa is just doing this as a helping hand since Alan is often gone for long times due to his real life and Sangiro can't spend all the time moderatoring too.... If I'm understanding everything right.... Skymonkeyone is a moderator too but I'm not sure he's up to date on the camera stuff like Quade is...I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #32 March 22, 2002 I brought up something that happens in the real world. Let's debate it. My current rig was assembled and packed less than 120 days ago. Convince me that what I did with my last rig could have killed me or affected the livelihood of someone else and I'll make a point of paying to have my reserve repacked every 120 days from this point on.pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #33 March 22, 2002 Derek and I have talked alot about this, you as a rigger have every right to do what you want with your rig since it is your ticket on the line. I know a few riggers who the only time they open the reserve is when they use it or get it wet, and other like you, once a year whether it needs it or not. The only concern I would have in the cypres and it's batteries. Not the 2 year battery change, but as we all know batteries can leak and do bad things, but if I remember correct you don't have one so that isn't an issue.I have seen the last 3 or 4 of my repacks come out of the freebag exactly like it went in. Actually my reflex sat in a closet with the reserve poped but still in the freebag for like 3 months cause all we did was take the cypress out to put in my Mirage, and when we pulled it out of the freebag it too looked great.So I have no problem with what Lisa is doing, she isn't going to hurt me if she has a reserve ride, and if she is like most riggers and anal about her gear then she isn't going to be putting it in places that could cause her issues. If she had a cypress then I would say she should open it more often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapper4mpi 0 #34 March 22, 2002 I have no beef with your reserve policies, mine are very similar. I just wanted to know what people were paying for reserve repacks. I pay $25 unless I bring a 6-pack of beer instead, then it is free. The reason? My rigger is a volunteer at a small not-for-profit DZ and he makes his money with a full time job. He's still very good. "There's no place like Malone"-Rap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #35 March 22, 2002 Lisa,See my post above. I seen 2 year old pack jobs that were abused look fine. I've seen 120 pack jobs that might have killed someone, not from the packing but from the changes during the cycle. One of my two reserves takes a much harder "set" and I expect it to take somewhat longer to open, especially at subterminal. That one I do let go long and fluff it up for at least a day. It would depend on your individual canopy/container and how you handle it that would dictate whether I think your practice is safe. I certainly don't believe its legal. The FAR quote above says "packed" within 120 days. Regardless, I think you might keep things where you bend/break the limits to yourself and set a good example for all the 10 day rigging wonders and others that might come here looking for advice. I've always told my rigging customers for the last 18 years that I don't much care what they do as long as they don't forge my name. Then they are ex customers. They may be getting pilots/dz owners in trouble (yes, I know your not) and I don't want to have to write a fatality report, but like I said I don't much care what people do as long as my name isn't on it. Not to mention it will take you a year instead of 4 months and 3 times the jumps to find an error in the last pack job. ;)I have to admit I'm curious why you don't pack your own reserve, and if its because you don't feel current to do your own, if rig for others.BTW to keep people from forging my name I now number all my pack jobs on the card and in my log. I also always use a custom stamp to enter my seal on the card. That way I can more easily prove that I didn't pack it.Terry UrbanSenior Rigger 1985S&TA Member PIA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #36 March 22, 2002 QuoteI have to admit I'm curious why you don't pack your own reserve, and if its because you don't feel current to do your own, if rig for others.I don't pack any reserves because a) I'm not current and b) I haven't learned the state of the art packing methods. It's for these very reasons that I don't give advice on rigging methods; I limit my advice here to gear selection related issues. I've never forged anyone's name, and I don't pencil someone else's pack job (using my seal, number and signature) without that person's permission.Perhaps it wasn't in my best interest to bring this issue out in the open, but I know it's done by many people and I am truly interested in finding out what others think about it. I appreciate your comments.pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #37 March 22, 2002 I charge $30 for a repack and inspection, which includes the main canopy, for the people at my DZ. Other people, I charge $40 until I get to know them. It is a small, privately owned student DZ and the people there are my friends. I don't do it for the money, I want them to jump safe, well maintained gear. The extra money is just to keep my workload down, but it doesn't seem to be working. They also get a note of anything I notice during the repack/inspection, trivial or not, which includes a gentle reminder or two about safety items...like inspecting and cleaning the cutaway system at least once a month, or inspecting and changing the closing loop. When I give them the rig, I usually do a quick little safety/information session about something that came to mind during the job. alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #38 March 23, 2002 Oregon is $45.00Now then, I have given some thought to the current issue regarding riggers and "penciling". First if a rigger chooses to do that to their rig that is their choice. My concern here is the picture that is being presented not only to newer skydivers, but to non-skydivers as well. I don't buy the idea that "rules were meant to be broken", and I certainly don't want new skydivers left with the impression that it is o.k. to jump a rig that is out of date. I for one will always have my reserve re-packed on time....I'm taking enough chances without increasing the odds. Just my own Aries opinion........It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #39 March 23, 2002 >You know, I just opened my two rigs after being packed about 8 months.George Galloway has been jumping very old reserve pack jobs for about 10 years now. I think the oldest pack job he's jumped is around 6 years old. No significant difference in reserve opening times. This only applies to Ravens, of course.Personally, I repack my primary-rig reserve every 120 days, mainly for the practice. My backup rig is about once a year, but that's stored pretty carefully and taken out maybe 10 times a year (and jumped even less.) I see two issues - one is the legal issue, and if the pilot has a reasonable assurance that the reserve is in date (i.e. seal is intact and card indicates it is in date) he has fulfilled his responsibility in the eyes of the FAA. Second issue is safety. Mick Cottle told me he'd be OK with a 360 day repack cycle, and PD has said they would be OK with a year as well. I consider the manufacturers of my rig and reserve to be the highest authority when it comes to what's safe and what's not.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #40 March 23, 2002 If PD is ok with it great as that is what I have as a reserve. Let them get the regulations changed, until then I will spend the $ which I would rather use for jumps to have my reserve repacked.Cheers!BIt only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #41 March 23, 2002 Thats the USPA and PIA's job... They need to laoby the FAA to change it and they were not successful the last time doing it. All they wanted to do was take it to 180 days like most of Europe, Canada, etc....I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #42 March 23, 2002 Thanks Phree....I knew that. The point I was attempting to make albeit badly, was perhaps there needs to be more pressure all the way around if this is something that needs to change. The USPA will push harder if it's constituants work harder to bring about change. You seem to have alot of answers/opinions on quite a bit.( No malice intended) What do you think is necessarry for this to happen?It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #43 March 23, 2002 QuoteWhat do you think is necessarry for this to happen?The planets and the stars to be in proper alignment....and a shaman to say a special prayer....LOL...JK...Lobbying is key here......but then again it took the gov't what seemed to be forever for them to acknowlege tandems as a non-experiment....marcBSBD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #44 March 23, 2002 QuoteYou seem to have alot of answers/opinions on quite a bit.far be it for Eric to have an opinion on something...and to have researched it first....marcBSBD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #45 March 23, 2002 If I remember the BOD minutes correctly for the last time the issue came up, the FAA decided not to make the changes because there was not sufficient proof that extending it to 180 days was the best course of action. The manufactors can not seem to agree on an exact time peroid to set the repack cycle. Untill the Manufactors, the lobbists, and the riggers can actually provide enough proof to the FAA that they know the correct length of time and a longer repack cycle is safer then a 120 day, the FAA has no reason to change its stance on the issue. And on Medics thought line, it took over 10 years to get the tandem program moved from expermintal to a valid skydiving form, and that had the majority of the lobbying power behind it. I'm guessing it will take just as long to get the repack cycle lengthened... unless the stars and the sun and the blood of an..... oh you get it....I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #46 March 23, 2002 I hereby nominate PhreeZone to be lobby on behalf of....everything that we want!....And I want what I want when I want it. I want it gift wrapped and delivered too! LOLCheers!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #47 March 24, 2002 mine is $70 a repack :( its aussie dollars also. Opinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwmontreal 0 #48 March 24, 2002 I pay about the about the same as you!! If I pay more, I'll scream. (same DZ and rigger).KW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
