pyke 0 #1 August 28, 2001 Ok...I have heard it around the DZ a lot...and I would like to ask you all what you think...Do you prefer tube stoes or rubber bands?My rigger believes that you don't get consistent openings with stoes. he uses bands for all his *loops*. I was always told that stoes would last you like 100 jumps or something...and now that I have spectra lines...I don't want to have to be changing my bands all the time.anyone out there like one opposed to the other??? I know this may turn out to be a "if it works for you" discussion, but please...chime in anyway!!!!Cheers,Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #2 August 29, 2001 I LOVE tube stoes! And they do last forever! While everyone else is hunting around for rubber bands, I am packing away! You occasionally hear someone who like bands saying they won't break when they need to and will cause bag lock. But I have tried to intentionally lock those puppies up (not in a pack job but as a test) and I can't!! They just roll off no matter what! And they are super easy on your hands too. Give em a try and see if you like them! I will never go back to rubber bands. I just replaced one tube stoe after 135 jumps!!! Sweet!dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allieram 0 #3 August 29, 2001 While on student status and while learning to pack, the rigs I used had rubber bands. I was replacing some rubber bands on each pack job.As for tube stoes, I have them on my own rig. Even though I bought it used, the only tube stoes I've replaced so far are the ones which were already worn from the previous owner. So far, I've only replaced about 4 tube stoes. I think tube stoes are great!I pack my own chute, so if I need to replace a tube stoe I just go to my gear bag and get one. If I had someone else packing my chute, they would have to come find me or dig in my gear bag to find my tube stoes. I've heard good things about both, rubber bands and tube stoes, but I think one of the reasons why some packers prefer rubber bands over tube stoes is that they usually have a bucket or pocket readily available of rubber bands.allieram Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #4 August 29, 2001 Hmmm... I'm in the mixed category on this one. I like them both but I use Tube Stoes for my locking stows and I use microline rubber bands for the rest of the pack job. That was after having tried just Tube Stoes for a few dozen jumps and just rubber bands for a few dozen and now mixing them is the best solution for me.YMMV,Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #5 August 29, 2001 Bands.... for one reason if none other. Here is a direct quote from Jump Shack on this issue, "Parachute "system" designers develop components based upon the characteristics of the stow band". They want the band to break if the tension level gets too high.Here is a link to the artical. Lots of good rigging info on thier site too.http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=rubber_stow_bands&SortBy=TITLE_ADo I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dutchboy 0 #6 August 29, 2001 I've used tube stows for the last 100 jumps or so on my rig. They do actually break. In that time I have had one of them break so far.I don't know how much faith I'd put in one rig designer making sweeping statements about how other rig designers want you to use their equipment. I could definitely say that most rigs out there were not designed with freeflying in mind (not at the time of original design at least), yet we aren't told not to freefly with the rigs.Based on my understanding of physics, I don't think the stow needs to break. Unlike the band, the lines are more likely to roll out of the stow rather than getting caught somehow.The Dutchboyhttp://www.geocities.com/ppolstra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #7 August 29, 2001 The problem comes that excess tension can lead to bag locks or worse. Most manufactors recommend a specified amount of tension to be placed on lines to get them to release. I remember reading somewhere at Sunpath says the tension should be enough to be able to lift the Dbag by the lines but not so tight that shaking of the lines with the suspended bag keeps the lines stowed. I think its like 15-30 pounds of force. Jumpshack is not the only company that recomends bands. Relative Workshop, Sunpath (at Summerfest they were handing out huge handfulls of the Mil spec bands) and many other manufactors recommend bands for some reason. Personaly, I've ordered a pack of Skybands and I'm looking forward to trying them.An easy trick to put the small bands on your bag is to use you pull up cord. Tie a band on the middle of your pullup cord, feed the cord through the loop and back into the band. Pull it tight.The band will be in place for you now.Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites prost 0 #8 August 29, 2001 I have used tube stows for a long time now and I love them. The biggest thing I like about them is that I seem to have less off heading openings. The lines roll out smoothly and the bag jumps around less as the lines are released. I have had some of the non locking stows last for several hundred jumps before breaking but have learned to replace them after about 100 jumps to keep the performance good. As far as the bag lock issue there is a slightly higher chance of a bag lock. My girlfriend had a bag lock with a tube stow that as so tight we had to cut it out on the ground. This is the only one I have ever seen. I believe that they reduce other mals on high performance canopies (like the canopy spinning up) and this makes them worth it despite the slightly higher risk of a bag lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 4 #9 August 29, 2001 I'll stick with bandsa) they'll break if they have tob) they 'grip' the lines better. Line dump = bad stuffc) c'mon ya lazy freaks! it's takes all of 3 seconds to replace a bandThen, I saw these two guys swoopin across the pond, and I was like 'weeeeeee!!!!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 August 29, 2001 Tube Stoes. Period. I don't have time to go dicking around looking for rubber bands on every jump and I am ALWAYS in a hurry on the DZ. I do have one of the new "super bands" on one of my stows that I got from a guy after finally breaking one of my tube stoes; it is holding up well, so I would not be averse to replacing more as they break. I generally get very long use out of my tube stoes because I take time to install them nice and tight on the stow bars and I have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RemiAndKaren 0 #11 August 30, 2001 QuoteI have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Hey Chuck, dont go keeping secrets from us! Do tell....RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 563 #12 August 30, 2001 You folks are forgetting the most important point.As long as you KEEP YOUR LINE STOWS TIGHT, it really does not matter what type of elastic rubber thingee you use.My main D-bag currently has a Tube Stow, some large rubber bands, some small rubber bands and one of Ralph Ponce's black Sky Stows. They all work, but I usually have to double wrap the big rubber bands to get them tight enough. Most of the time I use the same big rubber bands that we use on the student rigs, just because I have a pocket full of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #13 August 30, 2001 Thanks guys!!!!I guess I will only know for myself by experimenting with both. I have bands on now...but will install stoes (stows?) on to try those out next.Thanks for the comments all!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #14 August 30, 2001 Quotestoes or stows?Tube Stoes (brand name)Stows: what they are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #15 August 30, 2001 Chuck...you're awesome!!Glad to see you got my back!!Got yours too, if she isn't too big or mean looking!!!LOL!!!!rotflmao!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites parduhn 0 #16 August 30, 2001 I use these little black rubber bands, see? They are tough as hell and when they break you can't saw them off which is a bitch. Everyone warns me of bag lock but so far so good. I do make sure the bag closing bands are put nicely around the line loops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freaksister 0 #17 August 31, 2001 Hey Pyke do you still have that bag of tube stoes I gave you a few months ago before you were Mr. Cool and got a Heatwave (when you couldn't use them b/c you had big 'ol lines)? They cost me about 9 bucks so I hope so. Why don't you put them on and see? I bought the Tube Stoes, but then decided to stick with rubber bands. I really like them. They are cheap, they break when they need to, and I am used to them. K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid!I just decided not to bother with the stoes...if I don't have any rubber bands on hand I can get 'em free from anyone. I have 2 huge bags of them though so I don't imagine I will be running out for awhile...SisI lust for the ultimate rush... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #18 August 31, 2001 Yeah..got 'em still. They are the reason for the thread!I put them on last night, so we will see when I jump again how they feel. I put them on the "tighter" method, so hopefully they won't "dump" my lines like I was warned about!We shall see!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbbilly14 0 #19 September 4, 2001 I got my rig from a SEAL last winter, and he had installed stoes all over. As the first one broke, I went into the gear shop to get more. I was told that Tube Stoes were shit, and bands were the way to go. I have since had more hard openings. I will be trying Tubes again, but I think it has more to do with the care of the pack-job than the bands keeping everything in place.I'm open for suggestions here....Love,Billy"Light a candle for the sinners---Set the world on fire!"Marilyn Manson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #20 September 5, 2001 I'm sure that tube stoes are great because they last long, but remember that they also cost money, where-as rubber bands are usually free at the DZ. Its not that hard to change a rubber band but it can be a nuisance. Oh well. I'm just cheap.Safe landings,Alex D-23912 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #21 September 7, 2001 Well, all....I put 'em on and they were great!! My first opening was *really* slow...but I later found out that it was because I had doubled stowed the stoe...and it broke. So, after replacing that one and another one (that broke while trying to put on the second pack) I just wrapped them tighter around the D-bag and single stowed them.ALL of my openings from then on were WONDERFUL!!!! I had been having some hard openings with the bands, and while I agree with Cacophony (I'm cheap too!), these are great.I don't know if I would recommend them, but they are good for me. We'll see as they break if I put on bands and what kind of openings I get.Thanks all for the advice though.Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? 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Dutchboy 0 #6 August 29, 2001 I've used tube stows for the last 100 jumps or so on my rig. They do actually break. In that time I have had one of them break so far.I don't know how much faith I'd put in one rig designer making sweeping statements about how other rig designers want you to use their equipment. I could definitely say that most rigs out there were not designed with freeflying in mind (not at the time of original design at least), yet we aren't told not to freefly with the rigs.Based on my understanding of physics, I don't think the stow needs to break. Unlike the band, the lines are more likely to roll out of the stow rather than getting caught somehow.The Dutchboyhttp://www.geocities.com/ppolstra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #7 August 29, 2001 The problem comes that excess tension can lead to bag locks or worse. Most manufactors recommend a specified amount of tension to be placed on lines to get them to release. I remember reading somewhere at Sunpath says the tension should be enough to be able to lift the Dbag by the lines but not so tight that shaking of the lines with the suspended bag keeps the lines stowed. I think its like 15-30 pounds of force. Jumpshack is not the only company that recomends bands. Relative Workshop, Sunpath (at Summerfest they were handing out huge handfulls of the Mil spec bands) and many other manufactors recommend bands for some reason. Personaly, I've ordered a pack of Skybands and I'm looking forward to trying them.An easy trick to put the small bands on your bag is to use you pull up cord. Tie a band on the middle of your pullup cord, feed the cord through the loop and back into the band. Pull it tight.The band will be in place for you now.Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites prost 0 #8 August 29, 2001 I have used tube stows for a long time now and I love them. The biggest thing I like about them is that I seem to have less off heading openings. The lines roll out smoothly and the bag jumps around less as the lines are released. I have had some of the non locking stows last for several hundred jumps before breaking but have learned to replace them after about 100 jumps to keep the performance good. As far as the bag lock issue there is a slightly higher chance of a bag lock. My girlfriend had a bag lock with a tube stow that as so tight we had to cut it out on the ground. This is the only one I have ever seen. I believe that they reduce other mals on high performance canopies (like the canopy spinning up) and this makes them worth it despite the slightly higher risk of a bag lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 4 #9 August 29, 2001 I'll stick with bandsa) they'll break if they have tob) they 'grip' the lines better. Line dump = bad stuffc) c'mon ya lazy freaks! it's takes all of 3 seconds to replace a bandThen, I saw these two guys swoopin across the pond, and I was like 'weeeeeee!!!!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 August 29, 2001 Tube Stoes. Period. I don't have time to go dicking around looking for rubber bands on every jump and I am ALWAYS in a hurry on the DZ. I do have one of the new "super bands" on one of my stows that I got from a guy after finally breaking one of my tube stoes; it is holding up well, so I would not be averse to replacing more as they break. I generally get very long use out of my tube stoes because I take time to install them nice and tight on the stow bars and I have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RemiAndKaren 0 #11 August 30, 2001 QuoteI have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Hey Chuck, dont go keeping secrets from us! Do tell....RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 563 #12 August 30, 2001 You folks are forgetting the most important point.As long as you KEEP YOUR LINE STOWS TIGHT, it really does not matter what type of elastic rubber thingee you use.My main D-bag currently has a Tube Stow, some large rubber bands, some small rubber bands and one of Ralph Ponce's black Sky Stows. They all work, but I usually have to double wrap the big rubber bands to get them tight enough. Most of the time I use the same big rubber bands that we use on the student rigs, just because I have a pocket full of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #13 August 30, 2001 Thanks guys!!!!I guess I will only know for myself by experimenting with both. I have bands on now...but will install stoes (stows?) on to try those out next.Thanks for the comments all!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #14 August 30, 2001 Quotestoes or stows?Tube Stoes (brand name)Stows: what they are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #15 August 30, 2001 Chuck...you're awesome!!Glad to see you got my back!!Got yours too, if she isn't too big or mean looking!!!LOL!!!!rotflmao!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites parduhn 0 #16 August 30, 2001 I use these little black rubber bands, see? They are tough as hell and when they break you can't saw them off which is a bitch. Everyone warns me of bag lock but so far so good. I do make sure the bag closing bands are put nicely around the line loops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freaksister 0 #17 August 31, 2001 Hey Pyke do you still have that bag of tube stoes I gave you a few months ago before you were Mr. Cool and got a Heatwave (when you couldn't use them b/c you had big 'ol lines)? They cost me about 9 bucks so I hope so. Why don't you put them on and see? I bought the Tube Stoes, but then decided to stick with rubber bands. I really like them. They are cheap, they break when they need to, and I am used to them. K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid!I just decided not to bother with the stoes...if I don't have any rubber bands on hand I can get 'em free from anyone. I have 2 huge bags of them though so I don't imagine I will be running out for awhile...SisI lust for the ultimate rush... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #18 August 31, 2001 Yeah..got 'em still. They are the reason for the thread!I put them on last night, so we will see when I jump again how they feel. I put them on the "tighter" method, so hopefully they won't "dump" my lines like I was warned about!We shall see!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbbilly14 0 #19 September 4, 2001 I got my rig from a SEAL last winter, and he had installed stoes all over. As the first one broke, I went into the gear shop to get more. I was told that Tube Stoes were shit, and bands were the way to go. I have since had more hard openings. I will be trying Tubes again, but I think it has more to do with the care of the pack-job than the bands keeping everything in place.I'm open for suggestions here....Love,Billy"Light a candle for the sinners---Set the world on fire!"Marilyn Manson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #20 September 5, 2001 I'm sure that tube stoes are great because they last long, but remember that they also cost money, where-as rubber bands are usually free at the DZ. Its not that hard to change a rubber band but it can be a nuisance. Oh well. I'm just cheap.Safe landings,Alex D-23912 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #21 September 7, 2001 Well, all....I put 'em on and they were great!! My first opening was *really* slow...but I later found out that it was because I had doubled stowed the stoe...and it broke. So, after replacing that one and another one (that broke while trying to put on the second pack) I just wrapped them tighter around the D-bag and single stowed them.ALL of my openings from then on were WONDERFUL!!!! I had been having some hard openings with the bands, and while I agree with Cacophony (I'm cheap too!), these are great.I don't know if I would recommend them, but they are good for me. We'll see as they break if I put on bands and what kind of openings I get.Thanks all for the advice though.Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
prost 0 #8 August 29, 2001 I have used tube stows for a long time now and I love them. The biggest thing I like about them is that I seem to have less off heading openings. The lines roll out smoothly and the bag jumps around less as the lines are released. I have had some of the non locking stows last for several hundred jumps before breaking but have learned to replace them after about 100 jumps to keep the performance good. As far as the bag lock issue there is a slightly higher chance of a bag lock. My girlfriend had a bag lock with a tube stow that as so tight we had to cut it out on the ground. This is the only one I have ever seen. I believe that they reduce other mals on high performance canopies (like the canopy spinning up) and this makes them worth it despite the slightly higher risk of a bag lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #9 August 29, 2001 I'll stick with bandsa) they'll break if they have tob) they 'grip' the lines better. Line dump = bad stuffc) c'mon ya lazy freaks! it's takes all of 3 seconds to replace a bandThen, I saw these two guys swoopin across the pond, and I was like 'weeeeeee!!!!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 August 29, 2001 Tube Stoes. Period. I don't have time to go dicking around looking for rubber bands on every jump and I am ALWAYS in a hurry on the DZ. I do have one of the new "super bands" on one of my stows that I got from a guy after finally breaking one of my tube stoes; it is holding up well, so I would not be averse to replacing more as they break. I generally get very long use out of my tube stoes because I take time to install them nice and tight on the stow bars and I have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #11 August 30, 2001 QuoteI have a method of stowing lines that does not stretch the stows unneccesarily.Hey Chuck, dont go keeping secrets from us! Do tell....RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #12 August 30, 2001 You folks are forgetting the most important point.As long as you KEEP YOUR LINE STOWS TIGHT, it really does not matter what type of elastic rubber thingee you use.My main D-bag currently has a Tube Stow, some large rubber bands, some small rubber bands and one of Ralph Ponce's black Sky Stows. They all work, but I usually have to double wrap the big rubber bands to get them tight enough. Most of the time I use the same big rubber bands that we use on the student rigs, just because I have a pocket full of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #13 August 30, 2001 Thanks guys!!!!I guess I will only know for myself by experimenting with both. I have bands on now...but will install stoes (stows?) on to try those out next.Thanks for the comments all!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #14 August 30, 2001 Quotestoes or stows?Tube Stoes (brand name)Stows: what they are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #15 August 30, 2001 Chuck...you're awesome!!Glad to see you got my back!!Got yours too, if she isn't too big or mean looking!!!LOL!!!!rotflmao!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parduhn 0 #16 August 30, 2001 I use these little black rubber bands, see? They are tough as hell and when they break you can't saw them off which is a bitch. Everyone warns me of bag lock but so far so good. I do make sure the bag closing bands are put nicely around the line loops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #17 August 31, 2001 Hey Pyke do you still have that bag of tube stoes I gave you a few months ago before you were Mr. Cool and got a Heatwave (when you couldn't use them b/c you had big 'ol lines)? They cost me about 9 bucks so I hope so. Why don't you put them on and see? I bought the Tube Stoes, but then decided to stick with rubber bands. I really like them. They are cheap, they break when they need to, and I am used to them. K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid!I just decided not to bother with the stoes...if I don't have any rubber bands on hand I can get 'em free from anyone. I have 2 huge bags of them though so I don't imagine I will be running out for awhile...SisI lust for the ultimate rush... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #18 August 31, 2001 Yeah..got 'em still. They are the reason for the thread!I put them on last night, so we will see when I jump again how they feel. I put them on the "tighter" method, so hopefully they won't "dump" my lines like I was warned about!We shall see!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbbilly14 0 #19 September 4, 2001 I got my rig from a SEAL last winter, and he had installed stoes all over. As the first one broke, I went into the gear shop to get more. I was told that Tube Stoes were shit, and bands were the way to go. I have since had more hard openings. I will be trying Tubes again, but I think it has more to do with the care of the pack-job than the bands keeping everything in place.I'm open for suggestions here....Love,Billy"Light a candle for the sinners---Set the world on fire!"Marilyn Manson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #20 September 5, 2001 I'm sure that tube stoes are great because they last long, but remember that they also cost money, where-as rubber bands are usually free at the DZ. Its not that hard to change a rubber band but it can be a nuisance. Oh well. I'm just cheap.Safe landings,Alex D-23912 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #21 September 7, 2001 Well, all....I put 'em on and they were great!! My first opening was *really* slow...but I later found out that it was because I had doubled stowed the stoe...and it broke. So, after replacing that one and another one (that broke while trying to put on the second pack) I just wrapped them tighter around the D-bag and single stowed them.ALL of my openings from then on were WONDERFUL!!!! I had been having some hard openings with the bands, and while I agree with Cacophony (I'm cheap too!), these are great.I don't know if I would recommend them, but they are good for me. We'll see as they break if I put on bands and what kind of openings I get.Thanks all for the advice though.Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke NZPF A - 2584USPA C- ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
