Psycho Packing the Sabre

[Trent 0]

I've been working on better ways to pack my Sabre to both prevent hard openings and to make an easier time of getting it into the bag. I know the popular "roll the nose" trick seems to work, but after reading the PA article on Psycho Packing, I wonder if this would be better. Does anyone Psycho Pack their Sabre? How does it work out? How are the openings? PA likes to only mention their products in the literature, but I'm assuming that it would work just as well with other manufacturers who do not acknowledge that it may be a better way to pack than PRO.
Any thoughts?

[Cacophony 0]

I have psycho packed my Sabre several times. I am planning to solely psycho pack it from now on. It works really good. My openings were right on heading. I definately recommend trying it to see if you like it.
Safe landings,
Alex C-30872

[Merrick 0]

There's a fairly big guy at our DZ who psycho packs his Sabre, and he swears up-n-down by it! I don't even think he can pro-pack. I still haven't tried it with mine yet tho!

[togglekitty 0]

Just curious...what are the reason(s) that you *wouldn't* psycho pack a canopy? I've seen posts in the past (here & on rec.skydiving) where others ask "can I psycho pack such & such canopy". So I'm just wondering what the guidelines are on that. I have a Spectre on it's way to me (first canopy! yea baby!!), any feedback on why I should or shouldn't psycho her?
Blue Skies,
Purrr

[Geoff 0]

Why not to psycho pack?
Interestingly, Icarus, who are normally great proponents of the psycho pack, recommend NOT psycho packing the new Crossfire. Why? Icarus say it makes the openings a little too slow and snivelly. As the Spectre is a slow-opening canopy, you may have the same issue.
Of course opening speed is a matter of personal preference. I'm sure there are people who psycho pack Crossfires and Spectres and are happy with the results.
Personally, I find that psycho-packing tends to give more off-heading and twisty openings when I've tried it on Sabres and Safires.
Geoff

[Dutchboy 0]

I've psycho packed my Hornet a few times. I mostly tried this packing method to make getting it in the bag easier. My Hornet already opens slowly when I PRO pack and just tuck in, but not roll, the nose. I'm probably going to stick with the PRO pack for now because the psycho pack opens too slow.

[Trent 0]

So, basically, we're saying that just try it out and see, huh? From reading the posts, I can see that opinions and experiences range from awesome openings to twisty and off-heading. Guess I'll have to try it for myself then.
I figure that since it is a slower opening pack-job, I wouldn't roll the Sabre's nose at all. I'll experiment and let you all know.
Still, I'd like to hear more opinions, especially from a rigger or someone like that. Is this a GOOD way to pack canopies that tend to snap open? Why wouldn't I want to do it?
Thanks guys!
Trent

[cyberskydive 0]

I'm not a rigger-yet-LOL-but I used to be a full-time packer!-HAHA - I can prolly teach ya how to pro pack a sabre and control the openings a little better. Kinda impossible over the net though I guess. I posted a quick run down of how I pack in another forum, send me a message if you want the URL. This method has worked for me and lots of others very well.
D.Chisolm
[email protected]
http://www.sunraydesigns.com

[Aviatrr 0]

Your Hornet opens too slow when you psycho pack it? How long does it take? Mine opens in 600-700ft consistently. Psycho pack(what I normally use), PRO pack, or flat pack. PRO normally yields off heading openings, while the psycho gives me great on heading openings. I've only been whacked once - when I pulled in a track. It's kind of expected then.
Mike

[Dutchboy 0]

Quote

Your Hornet opens too slow when you psycho pack it? How long does it take? Mine opens in 600-700ft consistently. Psycho pack(what I
normally use), PRO pack, or flat pack. PRO normally yields off heading openings, while the psycho gives me great on heading openings. I've
only been whacked once - when I pulled in a track. It's kind of expected then.

Mine opens about the same speed 600-700ft. Seems to be true if I PRO or psycho pack it. What I was trying to say is that it already opens slow, so unlike some other canopies you don't need to psycho pack it to tame the openning. I need to work on my psycho pack. My PRO pack usually opens on heading. I've managed to get line twists a couple times with the psycho pack. I think I twisted the lines at the top while doing the folds. I looked inside one of my psycho packs once I found that I had done this.
Now that I've figured out how to get it in the bag with the PRO pack I don't feel the need to mess with the psycho pack which takes me longer, and I haven't gotten good enough at it yet. BTW, I fold my canopy in reverse order from the standard when I put it in the bag. In other words, I put my knee 1/3 of the way up from the lines and then fold the part closest to the bag in half. I then put that into the bag. Then I grab the canopy by the lines and tuck that into the convienent slot in the bag. Much easier than trying to cram everything in all at once.

[Aviatrr 0]

One of the common mistakes people make when psycho packing is not flipping the bundle the right way after bagging it.. After you flake the canopy, you then flip it over, creating a 180degree line twist.. After bagging the canopy(remember to put the bag on upside down, since the canopy is now upside down), flip it back the other way 180degrees.. Some people mistakenly flip it another 180, giving it a full line twist, then stow the lines. Also, be sure you leave 12-18" of line unstowed so that the bag can lift off your back a good bit before the lines begin to unstow.
Mike

[miked10270 0]

Hi there,
Bear in mind that ideally you should have a bridle extension of about 2 inches longer than bag width between bag & canopy attachment when psycho-packing.
Personally I don't roll the nose on my Sabre, but the slider does get pulled forward and the tail gets rolled big-time & all the way up. To bag the canopy I use the "Wolmari" pack method and I get lovely consistent on heading openings.
BTW, if you have problems getting the whole pack into the bag, one trick is to make the "second" S-fold first and bag that (so you have a 10 inch tail of canopy still out of the bag). then stuff the tail into the centre of the bagged canopy... Same result but in an easier order!
Hope this helps,
Mike D10270.

[Aviatrr 0]

What exactly is this 'Wolmari' pack I see several references to?
Mike

[Trent 0]

Thanks Mike,
Just a couple more questions... why would I NOT want to psycho pack? It seems to me that the overlapping tail seams would be almost the same as twisting them together (as in a PRO pack), in terms of time it takes to un-do them. Then the rest is similar to that Wolmari pack, but upside down (ie - nose up instead of down).
Since I haven't been able to experiment on myself (The weather is sucky in NY), I tried to follow the deployment process on the ground, and logically it looks like it would be a pretty decent opening. The only difference is the way the rolled canopy comes out of the bag and the way the tail is removed from the nose. Is this right?
And... what did you mean about making sure there's enough bridle between the attachment point and the bag grommet?
Thanks,
Trent
PS- when I get a chance to jump more... I'll run an experiment with PRO vs Psycho. I guess I'll have to use my Pro-Track to record the results. I'll post them. Thanks.

[Craig 0]

Hey Mike, the link below shows the Wolmari pack. I have never tried the pack job but this is the only page on the web that I have seen that gives you an idea on how to do it.
Wolmari Pack
Craig
Edited by Craig on 3/4/01 05:00 PM.

[Aviatrr 0]

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And... what did you mean about making sure there's enough bridle between the attachment point and the bag grommet?

Trent-
For psycho packing, it is a good idea to add a bridle extension between the canopy attach point and the 'ring' that rests against the grommet in the bag.. The main reason for this is because you roll the canopy from top to bottom, thereby putting the bridle attachment point(that is on the top of the canopy in the middle) in the middle of the rolled canopy.. You then have a short length of bridle that leads to the 'ring' that is supposed to rest against the grommet inside the bag.. Since the bridle attach point is in the middle of this bundle, you have to route the bridle out the side of the bundle.. If you don't have enough bridle, the ring will not be resting against the grommet.. Well, what happens now is the problem.. During deployment, as the canopy is pulled out of the bag, the ring is being dragged across the canopy, over time causing canopy burns..
This may confuse you more than you were originally.. Ask a rigger or JM to show you this.. A rigger can make you a bridle extension in under 5 minutes..
Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

Hey Mike, the link below shows the Wolmari pack. I have never tried the pack job but this is the only page on the web that I have seen that gives you an idea how to do it.

Thanks Craig.. Very interesting.. Just a modification to the PRO-pack, but it seems to help keep all the D and steering lines straight.. I'll have to give this a shot, see what kind of openings it produces.. The PRO-pack always seems to yield off heading openings for me, so I psycho-pack.. I'll try this out tomorrow..
Mike

[miked10270 0]

Hi there,
One of the most common malfunctions is a "line-over" (it's not a line over the canopy, it's (invariably) a brake line that's got in front of the nose during packing (so maybe it should be more accurately termed "nose-foul".
Anyway, every time you dress the canopy to width by rolling the sides around the nose you can risk bringing a brake line around in front of the nose[shock].
with the "Wolmari" pack, you dress the canopy to bag width by folding it into thirds (give or take) AWAY from the nose & toward the tail. As such, any "migrating" brake lines are moved toward the tail and away from the nose. In addition, I personnally find it "less confusing" than the Psycho-pack and it doesn't need the bridle extension or cause potential problems with a kill-line PC.
Mike D10270.

[Alvitz 0]

Aviatrr,
I completely agree with what you say about "fabric burns", but, in my opinion, we should also add that psycho packing WITHOUT the bridle extension could also give you a bad line twist, as if you pull out the ring from the roll, all the rolls you gave to the canopy are transferred to the lines....
BTW, I use to psycho WITH a bridle extension a couple of inches longer than what it should be: in this way I have to pay more attention that it's not going to get messed up with the bridle when I bag the canopy, but I'm sure the roll is definitely out from the bag before starting unrolling.
And... I LOVE the openings it gives me!!
A.

[GRNDPOUNDER 0]

This past weekend, I packed my new Hornet using the wolmari method. I was the only one packing that way but my opening were right on heading and soft. I didn't have to wrestle it in the bag like the traditional Pro-Pack. I guess I'm a convert from now on, really nice method, and ease of mind..

[skipro101 0]

that wolmari link doesnt work anymore...anyone have a different tutorial?

thanks!

[tbrown 26]

Quote

Just curious...what are the reason(s) that you *wouldn't* psycho pack a canopy? I've seen posts in the past (here & on rec.skydiving) where others ask "can I psycho pack such & such canopy". So I'm just wondering what the guidelines are on that. I have a Spectre on it's way to me (first canopy! yea baby!!), any feedback on why I should or shouldn't psycho her?

I've got a Spectre that I psycho pack and the openings are just fine - and no slower. The snivelly part of the opening is when your center cells are inflated anyway, the canopy's struggling to get the slider down like a lunatic in a straight jacket. You'll get that whether you Pro or Psycho pack. A psycho pack is WAY easier to get in the bag and you'll be amazed how much smaller and neater your closed bag is and how nicely it fits in the container.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[adamsr 0]

I noticed a significant slowing down of opening when i started to psycho pack my hornet. While i was pro-packing it i would get really inconsistant openings, sometimes hard, sometimes soft, sometimes diving one way or the other.

Since psycho packing i've had the vast majority nice on heading openings. I did have to tweak the pack jobs a bit and experiment with the nose and slider to speed them up, but now i'm fairly parcticed at it i get nothing but sweet openings.

It confuzes the hell out of a lot of people that watch me pack as well

• Quote

[Chiquita 12]

Here is a link to the wolmari pack, it even has pictures

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity"

[steve1 5]

A lot of people get nice openings on their hornet. Mine openned hard so I started psycho packing. Some openings were still fast and hard, so I started rolling the nose along with psycho packing. I get nice on heading openings now.

I tried the walmari pack on my Falcon canopy. I really liked the way it packed up, and it does keep the lines in right place helping to prevent malfunctions, but it didn't do much to slow down openings. My old Falcon opens hard also, so I quit Walmari packing it....Steve1