Proposed Amendment of BSR concerning TI Medical

[fencebuster 7]

I have submitted a proposal to the BOD to amend the BSR requiring an FAA 3d Class Medical for TIs. The rationale of my proposal is set forth in the March 3, 2015 letter, attached. My proposed amendment is set forth in the March 6, 2015 letter, also attached. I encourage any TI, aspiring TI, interested USPA member or DZO who agrees with my proposal to make their agreement known to your regional directors and/or the members of the USPA Safety and Training Committee prior to the USPA BOD meeting next week. Ours is a membership organization and our Directors were elected to work for the membership and promote skydiving. My proposal gets USPA out of the medical evaluation/approval process altogether, based on the professed claim of concerns of "liability" for USPA.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[riggerrob 558]

As a Canadian-based Tandem Examiner, Strong Enterprises always allowed me a bit more flexibility on medical standards.
I insisted that most of my TI candidates pass a Class 3 medical examination and provide a note signed by a medical doctor. Ideally that doctor was a Transport Canada approved aviation medicine specialist. I did not care if they filed the paperwork with Transport Canada.

The primary goal of a medical to ensure that the TI is healthy enough to
land his student softly.
Local TEs are free to set slightly higher standards. For example, I have refused two TI candidates for psychological reasons.

I have mixed emotions about allowing TIs with drug or alcohol convictions to jump with students. I drank heavily when I was a young TI. The only difference was that I never got caught drinking and driving. I eventually saw the error of my ways and have been sober for 19 years.

May I suggest that USPA amend it's TI standards to include "FAA Class 3 medical or equivalent?"

[parachutist 1]

Lack of alternative employment is a poor reason for downgrading the medical requirements for a TI rating.

I think Mr. Mullins' input was appropriate in the letter that you attached above.

[parachutist 1]

riggerrob

May I suggest that USPA amend it's TI standards to include "FAA Class 3 medical or equivalent?"

'Equivalent' could have alternate meanings here, but if literally interpreted, then all requirements would be the same for a different organization, and the candidate would be denied by the equivalent body. Some argue that other organizations like the DOT would be more strict, but clearly not in all areas if they would approve someone whom the FAA denied. FAA is focused on flight, and that's what we do: fly.

The only usable meaning of equivalent I can think of would be specifically for a non-USA citizen working in his/her own country, and using that country's Aviation Administration medical certificate as the alternate.

Chris

[riggerrob 558]

When I say "FAA Class 3 aircrew medical or equivalent", I mean the same medical standards, just less federal paperwork.

Transport Canada likes to set their standards one or two percent higher than the FAA, but there is no practical difference.

Transport Canada charged me most $100 the last time I re-newed my Class 1 pilot medical. The federal paperwork did not make me any fitter to pilot an airplane. The key point is that a medical doctor wrote that I was fit to fly.

[DBCOOPER 1]

I would not be surprised that the Class 3 medical requirement for GA pilots goes away in the future. There has been no Class 3 medical requirement for the light sport segment of GA for the last 10 years. AOPA and the EAA have been working to eliminate the requirement and congress is on board. It will only be a matter of time.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[AdD 1]

Rob, is there a requirement for cdn TIs to keep the medical current?

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[riggerrob 558]

AdD

Rob, is there a requirement for cdn TIs to keep the medical current?

.......................................................................................
To clarify, CSPA does not train or certify Tandem Instructors. CSPA just trains them up to Coach 1, then sends prospective TIs to a factory-certified Tandem Examiner for training and certification.
CSPA has been deliberately vague about TI medicals. Canadian TIs definitely need to submit a medical (to the factory) when they initially earn their rating.
CSPA has never asked me for an updated medical.

CSPA just mumbles about following manufacturers' instructions. Then recurrence is between the individual TI and the factory that certified him or her.

I sent TI candidates to Transport Canada-certified aero-medical specialists. I just never cared if they got the extra hundred dollars worth of paperwork from TC.
Strong Enterprises never asked for TC paperwork either. SE has always been satisfied with a doctor's note saying they are fit to fly.

Bottom line, manufacturers' medical guidelines keep the fatality rate low, so CSPA has never demanded more (medical exams) that the factory standard.

[catfishhunter 1]

I read most of that and here is what I "read"
Someone got their medical pulled because of DUI's and now cant work as a TI and has no other skills so you want to change the BSR's to allow him to continue to work even though he knew drinking and driving can not only kill people but cause him to lose his employment. Am I correct?

If not please explain as that was what I could gather and if that is so then hell no to changing the BSR's. If your a pilot you must have a class 3 medical. A TI is a for hire PILOT end of story.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[normiss 622]

Wouldn't the FAA then require a class I or II medical if they thought that?

[fencebuster 7]

Actually, a commercial pilot requires a Class I or Class II FAA Medical. A TI is not a commercial pilot. But soon private pilots will not require any medical. What then? Sport Pilots already do not need a medical. The BSR on medicals for regular skydivers is NEVER enforced Did you read it?) and the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[catfishhunter 1]

Ok I'll defer my ignorance on what is required of pilots went off what you wrote in your letter and the replies but back to my question. Why is this an issue? What is keeping TI's from obtaining the medical? How is not being able to pass the medical making TI passengers safer? Is this a major problem in the industry? Or is this as I have ASSumed to be about one TI who has multiple DUI's and can no longer work as a TI?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[normiss 622]

I'm unclear where the "criminal background" check box has ANYTHING to do with my physical health.

[justme12001 0]

I have never understood that either!

I can understand the FAA wanting medicals to somewhat make sure the TI's are in good (enough) health. I however don't understand what my legal background has to do with health.

If they want to do background checks, then require background checks. If they want to know about my health, do a physical!

I am a TI that can pass my physical, but I still think it shouldn't be required.

[fencebuster 7]

The FAA medical is a vestige from when Tandem was "experimental" and was done under an FAA waiver. The USPA kept the FAA medical requirement that is not now an FAA requirement, according to one BOD member, to "track DUIs." My point was and continues to be that as a DZO, it is none of USPA's business who I hire if they are qualified, medically fit, and they meet my personal expectations as the DZO. If you read the first page of the SIM, USPA disclaims any responsibility for anything relating to skydiving and especially what occurs at any DZ. Yet, the medical requirement for regular skydivers is RARELY if ever enforced. I just want USPA out of the medical certification business for my employees. Whether a guy/gal has made a judgment error and driven with a couple of beers and has a DUI on his driving record has nothing to do with whether he is a safe or capable skydiver. I am more than able to evaluate the people who work for me as a DZO.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[catfishhunter 1]

Your not a USPA group member any longer correct? So how is the USPA dictating anything to you?

Also you danced around my questions but if you could try and answer then it might be helpful in your crusade if not it only sounds like your buddy blew it (literally) and now your on a crusade to get him his job back

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[catfishhunter 1]

I have gone back over and read everything again and this has me questioning your judgment "Whether a guy/gal has made a judgment error and driven with a couple of beers and has a DUI on his driving record has nothing to do with whether he is a safe or capable skydiver"

I completely disagree. He put peoples LIVES at risk. Making that sort of "judgment error" has everything to do with being a safe "pilot" and that is why it is a reason to deny/revoke the medical. Putting peoples lives at risk isn't a poor judgment error I want in the person that has my child strapped to the front of them. Can you really say you would? Before you think I am a holier then thou I just celebrated 13 years clean. I also stood down when the time came that I was "eligible" to become a TI. I really really wanted to be a TI but when I laid it out on paper (yes I really did) it didn't add up. You see I want the very best to be behind my child when/if the shit hits the fan and I had to honestly admit that wasn't me. If this guy is the shit then he should prove it and get his meds back. Changing the system for someone that put peoples LIVES at risk is asinine . Mike Mullins got it right. Show some leadership and clear judgement, your a DZO now act like it.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[normiss 622]

So you would prefer it become a background check.
It has dick to do with physical health.
That's what a physical is for.

[catfishhunter 1]

Maybe you have missed everything. He failed the medical correct? Because this person failed the medical this other person wants to do away with the medical which will make everyone safer if TI's do not have to get medicals.

Is this what YOU think will make people safer?

and before you say alcoholism has dick to do with physical health you should educate yourself. There is a reason this person and everyone else that drives drunk gets their "ticket" pulled. It is a disease that is both physical and mental and speaks volumes to the person decision making process. Changing the rules to allow those with not only a drinking problem but a deadly decision making deficiency to take the lives of unsuspecting people in their hands is extremely selfish and shows a real lack of decision making ability in the OP and anyone that thinks this proposal is a good thing.

And there is already in place a road to recovery and to earn his medical back. Unless this isn't the first or second time. There is as Mike Mullins mentioned a "death" penalty for the unrepentant and if this is the case then things are as they should be.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[normiss 622]

So you do want a background check.
It's dishonest IMO to call it a physical if alcoholism is what you're wanting to find.
A DUI does not equate alcoholism.
A basketful of them, quite possibly.

[RM1 0]

If your goal is to make people safer then we can just strap them to their couch covered in bubble wrap. The mission is to provide tandem skydives to willing participates with as much risk mitigation as possible. To that end I do believe a medical evaluation is a good idea however I do not believe a single DUI offense should cost a TI his job. My single biggest reason I'm in favor of the exam is the applicant is required to disclose to the examiner any previous injuries and medications. Personally I do not want to be the one held responsible to determine if a recent head injury might affect the instructors health. I also have no idea how and SRI might affect a TI's judgement. I prefer to leave that to a medical professional. Another example would be after a TI has a major accident. They are required to go an get a new medical before they can return to jumping.

[catfishhunter 1]

A single DUI costs a pilot his ticket too. These rules are not a surprise the TI knew them and choose to take that risk. There is only one person responsible for losing his job and that is HIM

A single DUI should have much harsher punishment then what is currently being applied. DUI's KILL PEOPLE. I think you should go to Jail the first time not the 4th or 5th time. and this from someone that got away with driving drunk through most of his late teens until he late 20's and again in his mid 30's.

Saying it's JUST one DUI is absurd. You should visit with someone that lost a loved one to a person that it was only their 1st DUI....

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Glitch 0]

A bit judgemental today aren't we?

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[normiss 622]

Some people feel they are above reproach.
"Perfect" if you will.

[catfishhunter 1]

normiss

Some people feel they are above reproach.
"Perfect" if you will.

How did you get that out of my post? Pretty sure I qualified myself as way far from perfect. Driving drunk isn't trivial. It isn't a mistake or a momentary lapse of judgment. It is a deadly decision. How you can sit and justify it like it isn't a big deal is disturbing.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.