freefall stability

[FallingMarc 0]

I'm a little more than halfway through my SL progression. Ooh--I'm gonna get ribbed just for doing SL instead of AFF. Oh well. My problem is thus: I've had some jumpmasters tell me to just let my arms and legs relax when I'm arched, and some tell me to push down against the wind. When I relax, I end up spinning, because I'm still not very aware of the position of my legs, and one gets higher than the other. When I push down, I can hold a heading and control turns, but I get tense and buffet like crazy. I know, my jumpmasters can tell me best, and practice is the best help, but have any of you had a similar problem, or have any tips for keeping myself stable without letting my legs get uneven?
Marc

[skymedic 0]

hey marc,
Relax your upper body and point your toes to the sky.
always worked for me...
marc

[starzwithaz 0]

You are right !!! here is the rib. In my personal opinion SL is B... S... If you can avoid it do. AFF is more safe and is actually skydiving vs a canopy ride.You will progress 100% faster going the AFF route.
My 2 cents
Blue skies and sandy beaches
DSF

[MC208B 0]

hey, there's lots of links on the static line vs AFF around here already. I think Marcs question had to do with a better freefall.
Marc, when I got into freefall progression in the STATIC LINE training I was taking, didn't have much of a problem with spinning, but had a hell of a lot of "chipping". I found that by just relaxing and keeping your eyes on a point of reference on the horizon, it all got good real fast.
Give it a try and see if it works for you too.
Mike
PS, see ya at Archway next weekend!

[Donna 0]

I always did best when I tried to be completely relaxed. When I'd get tense I'd buffet and that would make me more nervous and I'd tense up even more and buffet even more.... vicious circle. I know this sounds corny but I would think... the wind is my friend... and I'd say that to myself and relax and give myself up to it and it helped a lot. You might want to try toe taps to check the position of your legs. Ask your instructors about it.
On the S/L thing, we have both S/L and AFF at our DZ and they both make skydivers out of people. I think it's a personal preference and both have their pros and cons. I went AFF but sometimes I wish I had had the 'balls' to go S/L. I often wished they combined the 2 programs in some way. Some places are doing programs like that (you do a tandem or two, then S/L or IAD for a few then AFF type jumps with usually 1 instructor) and they sound great to me.
Anyway, just have fun out there!
Good luck!
Skies,
D

[Darkzone 0]

Good post!
I am having terrible problems maintaining a heading on my 20 sec delays. One jump I seem to do okay and the next I will be all over the shop! Any good heading seems to be more through luck than judgement. I know that I have a tendency to drop a thigh which will induce a turn and so I conciously raise my thigh to compensate which does help so long as I don't overdo it and start a turn in the opposite direction. The biggest problem I find is the short length of time I have to sort things out and think 'Hey, that's how it should be done, now let's see if I can keep this up' before I have to pull and go through the whole sad routine again (it's taking me far too long to reach Cat. 7).
I was considering going for an AFF level 1 jump which would give me ample time to sort out my position (with help from the JMs).
Anyway, moaning over. Good news is I jumped the Let for the first time on Friday, Awesome!!!
Whooooohooooo!!! Hahahaha!!!

[FallingMarc 0]

Thanks guys! Hopefully with some more practice I'll be able to tell where my legs are a little better. I think the "the wind is my friend" thing might help me a lot actually, that's kind of what it took for me to nail the poised exit--I kept trying to work downward right off the step, and had all sorts of trouble, until I realized the relative wind was right in my face when I left. I had to make myself look straight ahead and consciously think "THAT is what I have to work with!" before I stepped off, but once I thought of it that way, I had no trouble with the exit.
Thanks!
And see ya next weekend Mike!
Marc the Unstable

[gus 1]

Above anything else, the thing that always helped me put on a good arch was concentrating on pointing my toes and keeping my head up. If you do these two things it's more difficult not to arch!
As a last resort if I couldn't stop spinning (which happened at least once) then I moved into a track. When you've got your arms by your side and your legs straight it's easier to maintain a symmetrical body position, which will stop you from spinning.
Just my £0.02 Gus
"If a man hasn't found something to die for, he isn't fit to live"
Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

[FallinWoman 1]

Marc,
I think I was in a plane with you today (or yesterday they are blending together for me) Did you do a 10 sec with Louie?
Small world!!!
Anne

[freeflyguy 0]

Pretend you are in OZ
Look straight ahead, at a reference point, you will be able to see your hands in the proper position out of your periphial vison.
If you start to spin, Click your heels together and say "There's no place like home, there's no place like home."
That tells you where your legs are. Then keep arching, fly right and have fun.
Static line is cool. Besides, you only do 5 static lines, then you freefall anyway. AFF is just different, maybe better for some, but that is cool. I almost feel like doing another static line, just for the hell of it. After 350+ jumps.

[FallingMarc 0]

Anne- actually I think Louie is the one JM at Archway that I have yet to jump with! I was on the load where he and Karen went up and did CRW though, on Saturday. I think her name is Karen anyway. Man, I can't wait to graduate to the King Air, it's hard to meet any of you experienced people when I'm stuck in the Cessna!
Marc
P.S. Only four more jumps required before I start doing coached jumps from the King Air, though... let's hope I don't screw any more up...

[FallinWoman 1]

If ya wanna meet us experienced folk, come hang by Jason's truck between your jumps. That's where I usually am because I like to watch the landings. We won't bite, I promise!
Are you heading out on the Fourth of July? Sounds like they'll be flying the King Air that day. Go get your four in next weekend and jump the big plane on the holiday!!
See ya next weekend!
Anne

[FallingMarc 0]

Between my jumps I'm usually either watching people land from the edge of the fence(yeah, I'm meek, and don't head out to the truck...) or inside struggling to pack a Skymaster. Now that I'm packing, I've noticed that most students don't seem to start packing for themselves till they're off student gear... after doing the big student canopy as well as someone's regular rig(just packing and pulling, while I was learning), I've found out why!
Marc

[chicagoskydiver 0]

I had a lot of problems with spinning due to not having my legs out, which is the most common problem with students. Also, I didn't have my arms back enough, which caused me to backslide, compounding the problem. Then one day a lightbulb turned on and everything clicked. I haven't been spinning since. One thing you can try is rolling up your pants on your jump suit and not wearing socks. It sounds really corny, but that way you can feel the airflow on your legs and it helps you to be more aware of where your legs are. Just a thought.
Blue Skies,
Hackey

[froggie 0]

marc,
i was the typical student~ my legs were up on my butt and too far apart. no matter how many toe taps i did or how many times i got the legs out sign i wasnt getting stable. So my JM and i figured out a new solution: "knee taps". I get the sign and i do a head to toe check. when i get to my legs I say "knee tap" and tap my knees together. then i dont even pull them out. Its really weird looking actually, cause my legs are so close together. but thats what works for me.. its what i need to do to be stable. So get with an instructor, figure out what you need to do. by the way im really short (not sure if that has something to do with why having my knees and legs so close together works for me)
kelly

[FallingMarc 0]

Thanks everyone! Just passed my two 20-second freefalls today, with my turns coming much easier. I still tend to overshoot my heading, but I get stopped within 30-40 degrees, and the rest will come with time I hope. When I felt myself turning, and knew the problem wasn't my arms, I ended up sticking both legs straight out and bringing them together, then very slowly letting them relax back into a normal position... it seemed to work, however slowly.
Also landed on the peas for the first time today... Anne can vouch for me!
Now if I could just get it through my head that on a diving exit, you're *supposed* to go head down...
Marc

[Michele 1]

Congratulations!!!!!!!! I am pleased for you!
ciel bleu
Michele

[FallinWoman 1]

Yep! He was in the peas! It was beautiful.
Never mind the fact that I had just finished bitching about how I need one more accuracy landing for my B liscence. Little show-off with 10 (?) jumps had to make me look bad!!!!
Marc, were you there when Ed tumbled?? After dishing me shit all day he got a little cocky trying to show me how to land in the peas. He's okay, but I am gonna be giving him grief for a while!!!
Blus skies,
Anne

[GeekStreak 0]

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Also landed on the peas for the first time today... Anne can vouch for me!

Um, beer? BTW: Way to go!
1111,
GeekStreak

[NewGuy 0]

Hey Marc,
I started AFF, stopped for 2 years then started up with IAD (similiar to SL). I had an un-intentional rotation to the left in both AFF and IAD. What worked for me was relaxing completely. A very experienced instructor asked me to do an arch on a creeper - he pointed out I was holding my breath. Which I didn't believe until he told me to exhale. What a difference!
Perhaps try the same thing - arch while belly to the ground and exhale. On your skydive, after letting go exhale all your air and relax. This may help. It certainly did for me - no more rotations or chipping.
Cheers,
NewGuy

[Aviatrr 0]

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Now if I could just get it through my head that on a diving exit, you're *supposed* to go head down...

On a diving exit, if you have your legs straight on exit you will go a bit head down while you're on the hill.. If you don't like it, try putting your feet on your butt right out the door.. You won't go nearly as far head down.. Also, if you're launching formations and are a diver, you will probably want to pull your feet up on exit - or else you may blow right past the rest of the formation as you go 'head down'..
Just think.. Now you don't want to go head down - in a few months, you'll be dying trying to get the hang of REAL head down.. Mike

[FallingMarc 0]

I didn't see Ed fall, but on my second dive, (of course, after we talked about all that) I misjudged and tripped on landing. I probably deserved it!

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Um, beer?

Man, that'd be 3 cases I owe! Stupid me, lost my ripcord on the jump after that... and still haven't paid the case for my first freefall... jeez, it's gonna be a hell of a night when I come through and pay up!

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On a diving exit, if you have your legs straight on exit you will go a bit head down while you're on the hill.. If you don't like it, try putting your feet on your butt right out the door.. You won't go nearly as far head down.. Also, if you're launching formations and are a diver, you will probably want to pull your feet up on exit - or else you may blow right past the rest of the formation as you go 'head down'..

What I actually did was "hop" off the step feet first, so the relative wind caught me in the back. Now that I've thought about it a little more, I've got to where it makes sense in my head to actually dive off the step, but when I was first trying it, I was still trying to do it as if I was facing forward. My JM told me it was a perfect exit, if I had been sit-flying...
Marc
P.S. I have 20 jumps now, thank you very much... yes, I should be farther along the progression, but like I said... it's taken me a while to stop spinning!

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