Total Malfunction

[SpeedRacer 1]

OK, this came up in the Talkback forum.
Suppose you cannot get your hacky out after 2 or 3 tries. So you have a total mal, not even a pilot chute out.
I was always taught that you go straight for your reserve handle. I think that's what it says in the SIM, and it would be my first gut reaction if I saw nothing overhead.
But another skydiver said that she was taught to cutaway first, then pull the reserve. Her argument was that with one safety procedure, you don't need to waste time deciding "should I cutaway and pull, or just pull"
Personally, I don't think that would be a problem for me. If I had nothing overhead, I would just pull the reserve right away.
What do you think is the right procedure for a total mal?
Speed Racer
"De plaene!! De plaene!!"

[DZBone 0]

What I think only matters for what I am going to do.
The textbook procedure is as you describe it, but if she is going to be more reactive to do it her way, that is how she should do it. If you would rather break it down and add the decision point, that is what you should do.
All things being equal, not cutting away should be safer (less freefall time, higher reserve deployment), but when you add the human factor, everything changes. She will be safer pulling both because that's how she does things. You will be safer pulling only the silver because you will go quicker through the decision process than the time it takes to cutaway.
Me? Who knows. We'll see if/when it happens. I drill to just pull the reserve. If I "screw up" and pull both, who cares?
Carl

[Zennie 0]

Can anybody think of a situation where pulling the cutaway handle in a total mal/pc-in-tow would be bad (other than the time factor)? Quite frankly I'm inclined to pull the cutaway handle cuz I've heard too many horror stories of mains deploying right as the reserve deploys.
It you have it pre-cutaway, I'd think the chances of a main/reserve entaglement (shiver) would be reduced. That's what scares me, not failing to get the reserve out in time.
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[GeekStreak 0]

I am a SL student. Unless I and my JM have failed to attach the static line to the plane, I'll have a reason to chop in a mal.
As a student I need to make my decission to deploy the reserve by 2500' and do it by 2000'. Since I'm jumping at 3500' I make my jump assuming that I'll be executing my emergency procedures and let my main prove me wrong by properly inflating.
Fortunately for me, my altimeter and both handles are on my chest 1111,
GeekStreak

[spectre230 0]

[Zennie 0]

Quote

If you can't find your hackey go for the silver handle.

OK. There's one.
That actually happened to me right after I was off student status. Right as I started reaching for my reserve handle I found the hacky. *WHEW*
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[lazerq3 0]

when I went through my AFP training, the JM told us to pull BOTH handles In a total container lock ,or a hard pull. However once off student status, the chioce was ours but we were told that if we did change the proceedure to make sure to go over and over and over in your head what you are going to do. Just like any emergency proceedure you gotta do what is best for you and what you were taught BUT if you change your proceedure, DRILL DRILL DRILL and then DRILL some more on it! I've drilled myself to just pull the silver in a total mal, but since I havnt had any yet, I'm just trusting myself that that is what I would do.
jason

[des 2]

agree with you zennie,but mike mcgowan could give you a good story about cutting away with a p/c in tow,not a pleasant one either.
there are really too many scenarios to have a hard and fast procedure.do what you think is right at the time.
des

[FallnAngel 0]

I bought new gear earlier this year, and on my first 2 jumps on it, I had a difficult time getting the pc out. On the very first time it happened, I was almost surprised at how clear & quick the descision was in my mind: I had tried once, so one more firm pull on that hacky, and if it wasn't coming out to play, then I was going straight for my reserve. That was the way I was trained, it makes sense to me, and it's the way I practice on the ground when I'm thinking up scenarios and reacting to them. The thing I learned from those hard pulls was that I already had a game plan for the situation before I ever left the ground...granted, you can't cover everything, but the more decisions you have made on the ground, the less time you have to spend deciding in the air (when there's likely to not be much time). Btw, if I encountered a total mal, I would just go to silver, no cutaway.
Blue Skies,
Karen

[Pammi 0]

Quote

It you have it pre-cutaway, I'd think the chances of a main/reserve entaglement (shiver) would be reduced. That's what scares me, not failing to get the reserve out in time.

Exactly. I wrote more on the other post but basically I agree with you. Unless there is a reason NOT to cutaway, that it might be harmful, I have to say that I will always cutaway.
However, I AM open to saying "Doh, I was wrong!" if someone can tell me why this would not be a good idea :)
Pammi
Some new pics.

[PhillyKev 0]

The only reason I wouldn't cut away is if I just can't find the pc and no part of the main is out. If the pc's out but the rest isn't deploying for whatever reason, I'm cutting first.

[skymedic 0]

I was always taught if you havnt been able to touch to first handle(ie cant find the hackey,tough pull) then you go straight to the silver. no reason to cut away comething not there. further more I would think if you cut it away and the main is in the container when it does open up it will go up and into your freshly deploying reserve. I would rather deal with two canopys out than a main-reserve entanglement.
just my thoughts, marc

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The answer for ME is to go straight for the reserve. I do not want the possibility of my risers becoming entangled with any part of my reserve. Now, what I teach my students is to do the standard cutaway procedure. I insist that they do this so that they do not become overloaded with information in their early experiences in the air. After a time, when a person gets their wits about them and is completely heads-up, then they can choose to just go straight for the silver if they like.
Chuck Blue
D-12501
SL-I (over 15 years), TM-I

[tigra 0]

"Can anybody think of a situation where pulling the cutaway handle in a total mal/pc-in-tow would be bad (other than the time factor)? Quite frankly I'm inclined to pull the cutaway handle cuz I've heard too many horror stories of mains deploying right as the reserve deploys.
It you have it pre-cutaway, I'd think the chances of a main/reserve entaglement (shiver) would be reduced. That's what scares me, not failing to get the reserve out in time."
Zennie,
The chances of a main reserve entanglement could be GREATER if you pull the cutaway handle in the case of a total or PC in tow. The lines and risers of the jettisoned main could become entangled and choke off the reserve as it is deploying. Very nasty, and usually impossible to clear.
My recommendation, based on personal experience, and the experience of a friend who did the opposite, and the information and instruction of several jumpmasters I trust and respect, is pull the silver handle first.
If you have a hard pull or misplaced hackey, you haven't dislodged the pin enough to cause the main to deploy. A pc in tow is a little different, because you might have a misrouted bridle, and again in that case you probably have not dislodged the pin, or an uncocked p/c in which case the opening of the reserve could be enough to deploy the main.
IF your main deploys as you reserve deploys, you'll have 2 canopies out, but odds are (based on the dual deployment study PD did) both canopies will deploy cleanly. Then you evaluate the position of the canopies and whether a cutaway is necessary (a side by side or a down plane) and in those configurations, the main SHOULD cut away cleanly.
I guess this is a subject of much debate, and everyone has their own opinion, but why not go with the odds, and learn from the people who have broken bones (or worse) before us?
maura

[hobbes4star 0]

i was taught if nothing is overhead and the hacky is still stowed to go strait for the silver.

[CJM 0]

A PC in tow is an ugly debate all by itself with pretty convincing arguments on both sides, but a total malfunction seems a lot more straight forward. For general purposes, I think you pull silver.
Chuck had a great point about loose main risers snagging a piece of the reserve. The odds of that may be low, but why chance it if you don't have to? The most convincing argument to cut away seems to be so that you don't have to learn a different emergency procedure. That may be valid for students early in training when they've got large amounts of information to digest, but not necessarily for up jumpers who have become more comfortable with their gear and procedures.
There are a lot of emergency procedures that we all learn that don't involve pulling red and then pulling silver. I once made up a personal review sheet that had all of the emergency procedures that I had personally decided to follow for every contingency I could think of and it came out to be four pages long. Think of all the emergency procedures we all know that don't (necessarily) involve cutting away. We have to perform different actions based on the circumstances.
So, I say drill for all contingencies and drill the "book" answer. That will dramatically increase your odds of performing the proper action when the times comes. My humble 2 pennies.
Chris

[slotperfect 7]

My PERSONAL opinion(s)(assuming a BOC):
-Can't find your hacky? Don't panic! Sweep the bottom of the container from left to right with your open right hand. Remain altitude aware (your altimeter hand should be out in front of you anyway). Continue your sweep(s) until your personal decision altitude, then pull the reserve handle. Pulling the cutaway handle costs you time and altitude, and does nothing (if the main container is not open, there is nothing to cutaway). That extra coupla hundred feet might mean you can make the dropzone under your reserve rather than land it (most of us for the first time) in a tight spot with questionable terrain. TIP #1: I fold/stow my pilot chute such that the hacky stays put rather than flop around. TIP #2: I adjust my harness snugly so that the rig stays put on my back. No possibility of the hacky sneaking into the gap between the rig and my lower back.
-What altitude are you pulling at? I used to pull consistently at 2000ft in my younger days. Now I only go down there if I have to to get clear. I am ALWAYS pins out by 2500ft on a routine skydive; 3000ft when I jump camera. Time is your enemy; altitude is your friend! BTW - my personal decision altitude is 1800ft (what I was taught many moons ago). If it ain't broke, don't fix it, cause muscle memory is gonna make you do what you drilldrilldrilled on anyway.
-Finally, the only negative consequence I can think of that might arise by pulling the cutaway handle first: if your rig has questionable riser covers, your risers could work loose and interfere with reserve deployment. Unlikely, but possible.
Food for thought! Great question!
Respectfully,
SP