Distabled 0 #1 June 8, 2009 Hello there Instructors, I would like your opinions please. I am a paraplegic with no control or feeling from my belly button down. I can not arch at all either. My hip flexor ligaments have shortened due to me sitting in a wheelchair over the last 6 yrs. This gives my legs the knee down position in free fall. I have mesh in between my legs to counteract this. The problem I have been having is that I rock up and down quite a lot in FF and on one jump I flipped over upside down because i rocked myself so much that i went into a stand up posn and then tumbled over onto my back before coming back around belly to earth. I think I have worked out why I am doing this. Please look at the attached picture. It shows me in three different jumps. Jump 10,11 & 12. I have drawn some angles on the pics to help compare the different angles that my legs were in on each jump. Jump 11 was by far the best and I was 100% stable. I have been looking at why this was the case and I think I have worked it out. I think that the leg strap position has been the contributory factor in jumps 10 and 12 being unstable. See how much further down the leg strap is on my thigh in jumps 10 and 12. This then pulls my legs forward more. In jump 11 the straps are much higher and my legs are in a flatter position. I felt so stable and in control on this jump and when i did jump #12 straight after I was expecting that my stability would be the same however it was much worse and I didn't know why. I did the same with my arms but i was far more unstable during jump 12. Here are the videos of each jump. Jump 11 - stability great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNgnq89KRs0 Jump 10 - stability averagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5KG5yj_Ak Jump 12 - stability bad (nearly went over on back) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-swFaf2xk Do you guys think that my leg posn has been changing due to my leg strap position? Thank you for any opinions. DaleGet busy living or get busy dying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #2 June 8, 2009 First off,,Hell yeah man congratulations!!!!! I have taken several paralized people Tandem but none continued further. Now to your question. Yes I think based on the video, the placement of your leg straps seem further down your leg. Therefore restricting the wind from aiding you in your arch and therefore keeping your knees down . Also it looks as if you tried different arm positions rather than straight out above your head you might have been able to compensate for some of the rocking motion you had going on. Just remember that your body works on 2 halves from the pelvis. If any half is moved from the standard NEUTRAL POSITION you will need to move the other half to compensate, so that you remain in a NEUTRAL POSITION,,,free from movement. All I can say is that along your way you will get the feeling for what works for you in situations. Keep up the good work!!!! SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #3 June 8, 2009 You may be right about the leg straps. Another thing to think about is your head position. Keeping your chin up will not only help accentuate the arch in your upper body, but will give you a better reference on the horizon to help you control pitch with your arms. A lot of newer jumpers experience the same type of instability you're experiencing, you just have fewer control surfaces. Overcorrection is a common problem, meaning that when you feel yourself pitching forward, you give input to pitch back, then when you pitch back you give input to pitch forward, and the cycle intensifies. The wind tunnel is a great place to work you how much control input to give, and when. Good luck. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #4 June 9, 2009 Quote I think that the leg strap position has been the contributory factor in jumps 10 and 12 being unstable. I don't know the answers but I can ask the questions: A big one is the chicken or egg question: Did the leg straps cause the body position, or did the body position change, allowing the leg straps to slip down and perhaps make it more difficult for the body position to improve? Is there a butt bungee to help keep the leg straps in place, on that rig with hip rings? (A Y-strap is another option but I can't comment on precisely how useful that would be.) Is the harness the correct size and were the leg straps tight? If a harness is short, then the hip rings are high and leg straps have to 'hang down' further, rather than just going around one's thigh. Then when one dearches they get loose. (But that is most significant if leg straps are tightened when the body is straight, such as for non-wheelies standing up.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gimpboogie 0 #5 June 9, 2009 i think there is much to be said about the head looking higher up comment. in the one you felt most stable-your head was looking farther into the horizon then the other two photos. Also as for the hip flezxors-keep on stretching them daily. get down on the floor-lay flat and then try to just lift your upper body as much as you can-1) it still keeps your legs straight-flat on the floor-and from the chest/niples upwards just try to keep looking up as much as you can-head and shoulders up off the floor. practive it in front of a mirror-head on, and perhaps even ask someone to put a piece of masking tape on the mirror at the place that your shoulders are in the mirror and the top of your head. each time you do it, try to make sure that at least get to the same position on the shoulders and head as the tape-and as time goes on try to get the shoulders and head up higher then the tape and replace the tape to that place.... what I do-is visualizeing (which arching) to 'present'my chest as much as I can-as in pushing my chest out as if to present it.... well i guess you might understand what I mean... i hope... Peter also had lots of issues with the shortened hip flexors-as well as I... now my hip flexors are so loose that i can do this comfortably-it does work but takes some time to get to.... I'm not sure what you mean by the leg straps-in the photos it seems that the leg straps are either attached to you at the hips-or was that just for the presentation-that point of angle at the hips? my leg straps are so loose that the highest amount of arch i can aquire possible-hope that helps somewhat... ? I will try to get you a photo of how my leg straps are now attached-slightly different then previously... and my next goal is to put BOC pockets on the legs-knees upwards and actually 'hide' the straps right inside with a toggle to pull them out of there once under canopy..... when I get that sewn in I will also take photo..,, that may take a while though, working at the DZ n living here-moving into the house is taking a lot of my time... tons of work to do here at the DZ could workTo become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skypilot 0 #6 June 9, 2009 First thing I noticed was the head position. I agree with the comment above that you are looking up and out more. Awesome job. Keep it up. Go big! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 June 9, 2009 (I'm not an instructor.... but) Added to what others said about head position, I think I saw a couple instances where looking at your chest-mounted altimeter seemed to result in your rocking forward. I note you also have a hand-mounted alti; can't you restrict yourself to looking only at that one while in freefall? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #8 June 10, 2009 I would say.... The difference is how low your legs are on 11 vs 12. I had the youtube videos in two windows and paused them and looked at various spots in the dive. But it is more than that... Look at your neck. Put a tattoo point on the side of your neck and draw lines from your torso to it. ON JUMP 11, every place I hit randomly on the time line, your neck was higher than your torso. ON JUMP 12, every place I hit randomly on the timeline, your neck was lower than your torso. As others said, the second you feel that you are unstable, look higher on the horizon and concentrate on bending your head/neck up using all the muscles you have control of. If your leg straps are a concern, ask your rigger for a freefly bungee if you don't have one. If that does not work, you could tie bungies elsewhere on the legstraps to keep them high. Have you worked with a physical therapist to stretch your hip flexor ligaments? Can it be done? I think you will have a bit easier time if you can pop your legs up into an arch just even 10% more. Maybe you could add some bulk to your jumpsuit near your ankles. Spandex near your knees and above your knees. That way the drag would be where it has the highest chance of pulling your legs up. Or even an RW bootie suit. Not saying it will work, just saying maybe one of your friends should try to emulate your body position with various jump suits and see which one works, then let you try? So - how low on your torso do you have control? Can you control the arch of your neck/chest? If so, I think this will be your best tool. Dropped knees are not ideal for fall rate or falling straight down, but is very stable if the torso is in an arch like in jump 10. It will never work when the head is lower than the torso as in jump 12. Just ask an AFF instructor who has experienced their student, "going fetal on exit".... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KathleenL 0 #9 June 10, 2009 Dale, Keep it up. It is amazing to see you skydiving and very inspirational. As for your question about instability I have a few comments. 1. The head position that everyone else mentioned is true. Keep that chin up. 2. It appears from the videos that you are "chipping". Chipping happens from tension in the upper body. Try relaxing your arms some. I see that your profile says you have 50 jumps now so you might have already figured this out. 3. Stretch those hip flexors too. That will be a big help. There is something that concerns me greatly about your leg straps though. What holds you in your harness if you do go on your back. I mean what would keep you from falling out of your harness butt first if you do not have control of your legs? There is a modification that can be made to your gear the will eliminate that possibility. I only say something because that exact thing has happened here in the US. Anyway all this is just my opinion. Be safe and have fun. Blues, kathleen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #10 June 10, 2009 Quote Dale, Keep it up. It is amazing to see you skydiving and very inspirational. As for your question about instability I have a few comments. 1. The head position that everyone else mentioned is true. Keep that chin up. 2. It appears from the videos that you are "chipping". Chipping happens from tension in the upper body. Try relaxing your arms some. I see that your profile says you have 50 jumps now so you might have already figured this out. 3. Stretch those hip flexors too. That will be a big help. There is something that concerns me greatly about your leg straps though. What holds you in your harness if you do go on your back. I mean what would keep you from falling out of your harness butt first if you do not have control of your legs? There is a modification that can be made to your gear the will eliminate that possibility. I only say something because that exact thing has happened here in the US. Anyway all this is just my opinion. Be safe and have fun. Blues, kathleen Kathleen Dale had around 35-40 jumps and A licence I think before his accident. Since his injury he has the number it says on his you tube videos. (AFF jump #) Tdog// Great post. Some excellent stuff to work on there. Keep it up Dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 June 11, 2009 Other posters suggested freefly bungees or a Y-strap (ala. Strong tandem student harness). My advice would be to install a Y-strap that incorporates bungee cord or the triangular piece of elastic seen on some Mirages. That will help keep your leg straps high on your thighs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distabled 0 #12 June 11, 2009 YAY! All sorted! I just did a jump and I fitted a strap across my butt to pull the legstraps in and it worked a treat. This jump was my 13th as a para and my 51st total. I need to go unstable and recover which i did and it was awesome. I have my A licence now! whoo hooo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yfxuktSTBU Thanks for all your great suggestions. It is fantastic to take all these opinions to the DZ and sift through it with my instructor. It raises many good conversations and helps keep what i am doing safe. Rock on! DaleGet busy living or get busy dying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #13 June 12, 2009 Quote I have my A licence now! whoo hooo! Congratulations, Dale! You are an inspiration! May you continue to find success as you progress in this sport. It would be an honor to fly with you, someday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distabled 0 #14 June 12, 2009 Thank you VSG, Ill see you at Perris one day for sure! I have attached my legstrap position from a jump i did yesterday. I made a major effort in positionong them right. It really made a BIG difference. When i get my rig made I will be considering the extra additions I could have to make the legstrap position as good as possible. DaleGet busy living or get busy dying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KathleenL 0 #15 June 12, 2009 Dale that is awesome! Keep it up. I am sooooo glad to see that strap across your butt. I was really worried before. Come and see us at Skydive the Farm if you ever get to the states. I will take you out of the Otter on a four way! I think you could be the inside center position and sit in the door for the exit no problem. Blues, Kathleen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distabled 0 #16 June 12, 2009 Hey Kath! I will do for sure! I would love to jump from the Otter at 14 grand. DaleGet busy living or get busy dying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
