cpoxon 0 #1 June 22, 2005 A couple of things led me to this post. The first was some cameramen taking the piss out of me this weekend for noting my students' names in my logbook (I now have approximately 1500 skydives in 8 years, 261 of which are tandems - maybe I'll get bored of logging it one day!) The other was a discussion about the male/female ratio in skydiving and whether it is reflected in tandems. There is no reason why it should be, with the ability to walk in off the street to do a tandem, gender should be no barrier, perceived or otherwise. In fact the opposite maybe true; "macho" men may avoid a situation, such as skydiving, where they may not be seen as such. In my experience, women handle tandems better then men. Also, I'm not sure what is worse for a heterosexual, male, whuffo on their first skydive; being strapped to a man or a woman! But that is probably for another post. Also, as a tandem instructor, if find it very difficult to gauge the ratio. I would have said that I take more men than women but I wonder if that is because I would rather take women ;-P I also wonder whether manifest had any influence on my ratio but that is probably just paranoia! For the record, of my 261 tandems, 135 have been male, 111 female, and 15 unknown (either names not logged(to my dismay), or ambiguous), which of the knowns is a ratio of about 1.2 males to 1 female or 6 men to 5 women. So does anyone else have an idea of their ratio? Is it different dependant on location, culture, day of the week?! Is anyone else even logging this sort of stuff? I had a look on Russell's logbook but that just lists "student" although this may be a reduced infoset. I'm almost wishing that I'd logged their weights and heights (they are required to provide it on their medical forms in the UK, but then I'd be getting into Data Protection issues). ;-PSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #2 June 23, 2005 Just did my 319th tandem today, a girl. Out of those 147 are female. I have 596 AFF jumps, but have not yet checked the gender types. My guess is that it's probably the same. Hey, I jump at the home of Chicks Rock!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #3 June 23, 2005 Have a little more than 500 tandems now. I do not know how much was male/female. I do not care. A passenger is a passenger. The only thinks I know out of my head: Age: from 10 till 80years Weight: from 40 till 110kg For the rest my head is filled with beer. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #4 June 23, 2005 QuoteI do not care. A passenger is a passenger. That's where we differ; I treat them as students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 June 23, 2005 for the moment I have 100% male for the moment I have 1 tandem as the pilot... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #6 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI do not care. A passenger is a passenger. That's where we differ; I treat them as students. *********** Thank You! *********** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #7 June 23, 2005 QuoteThat's where we differ; I treat them as students. While I agree with Mark, I think he may not have meant it that way . . . In the military we call them passengers, and we call the jumper wearing the parachute a "Tandem Master." The FAA calls them "Passenger Parachutist" and "Parachutist In Command." I switched to calling myself a "Tandem Instructor" and my customers "Tandem Students." Whether it is a "working" tandem (Tandem Progression) or a "fun" tandem, my customers ALWAYS learn something . . . sometimes about skydiving, but most times they learn something about themselves. I ask my students why they came out to make a skydive, and sometimes the answer allows me to personalize the experience for them. Getting back on topic, I responded that I take more women . . . it's pretty close to even, but I think we get more women at Raeford. Maybe some of the other Raeford TIs have a different perspective.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #8 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's where we differ; I treat them as students. While I agree with Mark, I think he may not have meant it that way . . . Quote I meant it like I wrote. When I ask an average passenger (or potential student) why they want to do a skydive. I mostly get an answer like "I always wanted to do this once, but I do not want to spend a complete day in the classroom" so they are not comming to a DZ with the idea of learning skydiving they only want a nice experience. Although you have some exceptions most tandemjumps are just expensive rollercoaster rides. If you really consider tandemguests as student I assume you do not allow any videoman in front of you that can distract the student from his learning process. Like the AFF student forgetting everything the moment he makes eye contact with the videoman. For your info, the DZ I jump does not offer something like Tandemprogression jumps. We have Tandem, static-line and AFF, no mixes of this. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #9 June 23, 2005 Over the last 19 years, I have seen slightly more male tandem students than female students. But my view is biased because manifest learned - decades ago - that if they send the tall, fat, scared, sweaty, scared, etc. students with Rob, he sucks it up, soldiers on and shows all the students a good time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybum1 0 #10 June 23, 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's where we differ; I treat them as students. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I meant it like I wrote. "If you really consider tandemguests as student I assume you do not allow any videoman in front of you that can distract the student from his learning process. Like the AFF student forgetting everything the moment he makes eye contact with the videoman." This is not a valid argument. The video should be worked into the dive flow for the whole learning experience. etc. IMHO"Remember to be nice to people on your way up cause you meet them on your way down." Jimmy D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #11 June 23, 2005 Quote"If you really consider tandemguests as student I assume you do not allow any videoman in front of you that can distract the student from his learning process. Like the AFF student forgetting everything the moment he makes eye contact with the videoman." Its a "training video" and I can't even count the number of students who have watched their video at the DZ and gone "oh, I guess I didn't have my feet in the right place or an arch, next time I'll besure to hit that neutral body position." Ding, job done, the student continued to learn, even after the skydive, from the video. As for my ratio, I have a bit over 700 tandem jumps and I would say the ratio has been roughly 50/50.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #12 June 23, 2005 QuoteJust did my 319th tandem today, a girl. Out of those 147 are female. I'm glad I'm not the only one logging this sort of stuff!Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #13 June 23, 2005 QuoteAlthough you have some exceptions most tandemjumps are just expensive rollercoaster rides. Hey Ton, So you don't get your students to arch, to bring their arms out at 90 degrees, to steer the canopy after opening?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #14 June 24, 2005 Craig, what we do at Byron is have the student fill in the narrative of the logbook with their feelings about the dive. We make kind of a ceremony out of it: "Bridgette, I ask everyone who jumps with me to sign my logbook. You were on my 1398th skydive, and only you and me in the world can say that. If you have any feelings about the jump, please write them down, and sign in the signature box. Thanks, you really did great today!" "JP was awesome! He really calmed me down when I was thinking about backing out! GREAT fun, everybody should do it! Bridgette." In the event, somewhere down the road, someone has a less than stellar experience with me, I'll have three hundred signed testimonials about how everybody else had fun. As to ratio, about 1/2 and 1/2. As to the poofter discomfort, it's not a factor here in NorCal. Edit: As to training, that's up to them, completely. If they want to learn how to do arm turns I love to teach them, and we'll drive the canopy as hard as they want. I am often last out and first down cause I get some top gun student with an iron stomach. I tell them we can have a fighter pilot canopy ride or a hot air balloon canopy ride, it's up to them. "I'm not having fun if you're not having fun" My anecdotal experience is that just as many women as men want the full-g, yank and bank ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #15 June 24, 2005 QuoteMy anecdotal experience is that just as many women as men want the full-g, yank and bank ride. On a related note, more dudes yack than the girls do. Mostly the tough guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #16 June 24, 2005 QuoteMostly the tough guys The "hero" students. "Yeah, I race motorcycles, bungy jump, hang glide and just got my spine peirced...skydiving should be nothing to me..." Get to the door and see the complete look of a face with no color and fear... Get to the ground and YAK!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #17 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteAlthough you have some exceptions most tandemjumps are just expensive rollercoaster rides. Hey Ton, So you don't get your students to arch, to bring their arms out at 90 degrees, to steer the canopy after opening? Oh yes off course I tell them what to do during exit and freefall. Makes my job a little easier with a good passenger body shape. Hand at 90 degrees, no problem, that brings you in a more level fall position. I also correct the body position if I do not like the position of the legs and arms. Steer the canopy after opening? Only very few students/passengers want to do it. For me that is fine. Allow the student/passenger to assist in landing flare: !!!NEVER!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #18 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteJust did my 319th tandem today, a girl. Out of those 147 are female. I'm glad I'm not the only one logging this sort of stuff! I didn't for awhile. I'd just put a note in my logbook at the end of the day "5 tandems" or something like that. What I do now instead is have each student fill out my logbook for me, writing whatever they want about their jump. If I'm back-to-backing, the manifest bitch takes care of getting them to do it. It's kinda fun to look back and read what they wrote once in awhile. I still don't put male or female, but most names are kinda obvious. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
riggerrob 558 #9 June 23, 2005 Over the last 19 years, I have seen slightly more male tandem students than female students. But my view is biased because manifest learned - decades ago - that if they send the tall, fat, scared, sweaty, scared, etc. students with Rob, he sucks it up, soldiers on and shows all the students a good time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybum1 0 #10 June 23, 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's where we differ; I treat them as students. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I meant it like I wrote. "If you really consider tandemguests as student I assume you do not allow any videoman in front of you that can distract the student from his learning process. Like the AFF student forgetting everything the moment he makes eye contact with the videoman." This is not a valid argument. The video should be worked into the dive flow for the whole learning experience. etc. IMHO"Remember to be nice to people on your way up cause you meet them on your way down." Jimmy D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 June 23, 2005 Quote"If you really consider tandemguests as student I assume you do not allow any videoman in front of you that can distract the student from his learning process. Like the AFF student forgetting everything the moment he makes eye contact with the videoman." Its a "training video" and I can't even count the number of students who have watched their video at the DZ and gone "oh, I guess I didn't have my feet in the right place or an arch, next time I'll besure to hit that neutral body position." Ding, job done, the student continued to learn, even after the skydive, from the video. As for my ratio, I have a bit over 700 tandem jumps and I would say the ratio has been roughly 50/50.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #12 June 23, 2005 QuoteJust did my 319th tandem today, a girl. Out of those 147 are female. I'm glad I'm not the only one logging this sort of stuff!Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #13 June 23, 2005 QuoteAlthough you have some exceptions most tandemjumps are just expensive rollercoaster rides. Hey Ton, So you don't get your students to arch, to bring their arms out at 90 degrees, to steer the canopy after opening?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #14 June 24, 2005 Craig, what we do at Byron is have the student fill in the narrative of the logbook with their feelings about the dive. We make kind of a ceremony out of it: "Bridgette, I ask everyone who jumps with me to sign my logbook. You were on my 1398th skydive, and only you and me in the world can say that. If you have any feelings about the jump, please write them down, and sign in the signature box. Thanks, you really did great today!" "JP was awesome! He really calmed me down when I was thinking about backing out! GREAT fun, everybody should do it! Bridgette." In the event, somewhere down the road, someone has a less than stellar experience with me, I'll have three hundred signed testimonials about how everybody else had fun. As to ratio, about 1/2 and 1/2. As to the poofter discomfort, it's not a factor here in NorCal. Edit: As to training, that's up to them, completely. If they want to learn how to do arm turns I love to teach them, and we'll drive the canopy as hard as they want. I am often last out and first down cause I get some top gun student with an iron stomach. I tell them we can have a fighter pilot canopy ride or a hot air balloon canopy ride, it's up to them. "I'm not having fun if you're not having fun" My anecdotal experience is that just as many women as men want the full-g, yank and bank ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #15 June 24, 2005 QuoteMy anecdotal experience is that just as many women as men want the full-g, yank and bank ride. On a related note, more dudes yack than the girls do. Mostly the tough guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 June 24, 2005 QuoteMostly the tough guys The "hero" students. "Yeah, I race motorcycles, bungy jump, hang glide and just got my spine peirced...skydiving should be nothing to me..." Get to the door and see the complete look of a face with no color and fear... Get to the ground and YAK!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #17 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteAlthough you have some exceptions most tandemjumps are just expensive rollercoaster rides. Hey Ton, So you don't get your students to arch, to bring their arms out at 90 degrees, to steer the canopy after opening? Oh yes off course I tell them what to do during exit and freefall. Makes my job a little easier with a good passenger body shape. Hand at 90 degrees, no problem, that brings you in a more level fall position. I also correct the body position if I do not like the position of the legs and arms. Steer the canopy after opening? Only very few students/passengers want to do it. For me that is fine. Allow the student/passenger to assist in landing flare: !!!NEVER!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #18 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteJust did my 319th tandem today, a girl. Out of those 147 are female. I'm glad I'm not the only one logging this sort of stuff! I didn't for awhile. I'd just put a note in my logbook at the end of the day "5 tandems" or something like that. What I do now instead is have each student fill out my logbook for me, writing whatever they want about their jump. If I'm back-to-backing, the manifest bitch takes care of getting them to do it. It's kinda fun to look back and read what they wrote once in awhile. I still don't put male or female, but most names are kinda obvious. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
