jlmiracle 7 #1 November 1, 2004 How many of you teach your students to "lock on" at 6000 ft? I personally have seen a HUGE problem with this. I have been a skydive (I do not teach lock on) and the skydive went perfect til 6000 feet and they "locked on" and stayed "locked on" and missed the wave off, missed the pull signal, and ended up failing for not pulling because they became fixated on their altimeter. Just looking for feed back postive and negative. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 November 1, 2004 This is coming from a working tandem point of view, integrated with our AFF. We've recently changed from "locking on" to at 6k take a deep breath, wave and pull. The breath helps them relax, arch and be stable. It's also just about the right amount of time to put them at 5.5k when they are waving/pulling. So far I've noticed a difference on the tandems, the AFF-I's have noticed a difference as well. A positive difference.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #3 November 1, 2004 That sound great. I don't know when or where this lock on this came about. It showed up at our dz a year or so ago and from what I have seen has cause a more problems than it has helped. I basically tell my students the same as you do with deep breath, wave off and pull. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfrese 0 #4 November 1, 2004 I no longer teach the "lock on" for Cat A and Cat B tandem jumps due to some bizarre behavior I've seen from students lately. Had one guy who did a great job for the whole skydive, "locked on" at 7K, and stayed there with no wave off and no pull (despite pull signal right in his face). During the debrief, I asked him why he didn't pull at 6K per our dive flow. His response: "I couldn't remember which way the needle was turning." Since then, I've been using the same deep breath/pull sequence Dave mentioned, and it's been working a lot better (at leaast on the few Cat A and B jumps I've done).Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 November 2, 2004 Quote We've recently changed from "locking on" to at 6k take a deep breath, wave and pull. The breath helps them relax, arch and be stable. It's also just about the right amount of time to put them at 5.5k when they are waving/pulling. I was quickly transitioned from lock on to that approach, but often I pulled a second or two early, esp if I saw the altimeter at 6250 and then in my mind waited an extra second, but really didn't. Still beats locking on till an IAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #6 November 2, 2004 1) "Lock on @ 6000 FT" is an altitude trigger 2) "Begin pull sequence @ 5500" is another altitude trigger 3) "Decision altitude" @ 2500 FT 4) "Do not cutaway below 1000 FT" are two more. Those are special altitudes that trigger a performance related response. 1) "Watch for my pull altitude" 2) "Wave off & pull" 3) "Make a decision to cutaway or land with a malfunction" 4) "Too low to pull the cutaway handle" We use these at my dropzone, and for the most part they work well. From my experience, people that start out with altitude awareness issues have them regardless of the specific technique. Corrective training on the creeper doing dive flows with a countdown altimeter usually does the trick. If you don't like the verbage, nothing wrong with tweaking it a bit to suit youre technique - as long as your Chief Instructor has no objecttions.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #7 November 2, 2004 John, Well said. We pretty much use the same procedures. I even put up an altitude scale on the board during my FJC. Shark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #8 November 2, 2004 Why give the student 1 more altitude that could infact, make them fixated and not pull. If they are locked on to the altimeter, they aren't going to see any signal you give them because they are locked on to the altimeter. Freefall isn't free and especially for student and I don't think its fair to them. What was wrong with at 5500 arch, wave off and pull. The experiences I've had with students locking have not been very successful or helpful and any way shape or form. I find the students that is "locking on" at 6000 ft are more likely to pull high or get really tense on deployment and unstable. Where in the SIM does it say they should do this? Where did this "locking on" come from? Is this new to the AFFI course? Judy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #9 November 2, 2004 QuoteWhy give the student 1 more altitude that could infact, make them fixated and not pull. If they are locked on to the altimeter, they aren't going to see any signal you give them because they are locked on to the altimeter. Like I said . . . if it doesn't work for you, shift it to a technique that does. QuoteFreefall isn't free and especially for student and I don't think its fair to them. What was wrong with at 5500 arch, wave off and pull. The experiences I've had with students locking have not been very successful or helpful and any way shape or form. I find the students that is "locking on" at 6000 ft are more likely to pull high or get really tense on deployment and unstable. I would much rather have a student pull a few hundred feet too high on the first skydive or two, allowing me to "dial them in," rather than pulling too low or reacting too late causing me to have to pull them out and them having to repeat the skydive. I have tried both, and found that the "lock on" altitude better sets up the student to be safe and succesful. Also, it morphs easily into the "no more turns altitude" for Cat D. QuoteWhere in the SIM does it say they should do this? Where did this "locking on" come from? Is this new to the AFFI course? I don't know where it originated . . . it is printed on the dive flow charts at my dropzone, though. I looked at the dive flows in the SIM and did not see it there. The bottom line for me is that it's a technique, one that works for me consistently, and I will stick with it until I find something that is a marked improvement.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 November 2, 2004 John and I work at the same dropzone. I was taught "lock on at 6k" by my AFF course director, Billy Rhodes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 November 3, 2004 This is the first time I have heard about "locking on." When students instinctively "lock on," we have to retrain them for a more relaxed attitude close to pull altitude. We have great results teaching them a variation on the old AFF "short circles" (of awareness) procedure. "Look at altimeter and realize you are at 6,000 feet. Breath, look at horizon. Look at altimeter. Breath. lookat horizon again. Repeat the process until you reach 5,000, then wave. reach and pull, etc." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #12 November 6, 2004 After reading all of the posts thus far in this thread, I still can't say that I know what "lock on" refers to!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 November 6, 2004 Lock on, aka stare at your alti when it reaches 6k, wait till 5.5k wave and pull.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
