ladyskydiver 0 #26 November 3, 2004 Thanks, Lew! It's appreciated. The link and visual helps a ton. Glad to hear you're ok from that experience. *shudder*Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #27 November 3, 2004 QuoteQuoteKnow what breakoff altitude is, and anticipate the waveoff. Backslide away maybe 20+ feet, watching the tandem pair, then turn and track. Clarification - reading the above, which is the correct way to read it? aQuoteMy sweet wife ... That's an awesome description of your wife. That was a little ambiguous. Let me try to clarify. The TM should waveoff around 6000-5500, the signal for relative workers to go away. Try to stay altitude aware so it's not a big surprise, because it does come so high. Ask the TM at what altitude he plans to have you leave, and ask what the signal will be. I always brief those points without being asked. Some people, when they turn to track, float up or sink and slide around a little. That's why I think it's safer to back away from the tandem pair 20 feet or so, keeping an eye on them so as to stay level, then turn and track away. My wife is a sweetie pie. I'm very lucky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #28 November 3, 2004 Quote as the videographer goes on their back to watch the tandem, they are blind to any dangers below them. That is why it is very important for a lurker to track effectively away from a tandem. John said about the video,QuoteHe'll open not too far below the tandem. Depending on what you consider "not too far", I disagree with that statement. I allow at least 1000 feet of vertical seperation, for which I am usually on my back for most of that. Thanks, Lew, you said what I meant much better. I meant that the Video owned the airspace under the tandem and the flyers better get out of the way, because the video is doing their thing, not tracking off or looking for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #29 November 3, 2004 Remember to follow the TI's break-off plan. I have allowed some highly competent skydivers to lurk their friend's tandem. For some reason he decided at break-off that I was not waving off and he was going to dock on the tandem and wave at the camera. I was very pissed and told him he's not lurking any of my tandems. Staying altitude aware ond following the established plan is VERY important. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #30 November 4, 2004 Cool! Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate all the info. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #31 November 8, 2004 Vector requires 500 jumps...I *think* they used to require an instructor rating as well. Strong has no such requirements. Anyone that wants to swoop me: 1. Must have proven to me that they can control themselves in freefall. Some sugested buying the TM a jump...Not a bad idea. But if you were at Zhills, I know you and what you can do so that would not be needed. As a Tandem I am a sitting duck....You need to be able to get away from me, and not hit me. 2. They must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. 3. Approach from ON LEVEL from the FRONT where I can see you. 4. Dock on only the PASSENGER and only if you are on level and in control. And only after I nod you in. 5. Let go of grips and slide back 10 feet at +1000 feet before deployment. Stay away from me. If I signal you to leave...leave right then. 6. After I deploy, track away. 7. STAY AWAY from me under canopy. I know this all sounds anal...But #1...It is me, and #2 I am responsible not only for my life, but my passengers life. I'll let you risk mine to a small degree, but not my passenger."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #32 November 8, 2004 Thanks, Ron! Appreciate the info. See you soon, my friend. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tandemphil 0 #33 November 8, 2004 from what I've read so far in this post, your skydiving skills are up to the task of lurking a tandem, so I won't address that issue. One alternative regarding break-off and opening that I have used when accompanied by both a lurker and vidiot is this: At approx. 6500' I'll wave off the lurker who then tracks in a straight line behind me and dumps at about 5700 or 5500. this allows the vidiot to capture your track and opening for the video. once the vidiot has seen your deployment, he gives me a thumbs up and I'll deploy the tandom canopy somwhere between 5000 and 4500. leaving the video man pleanty of time to film the tandem opening and still open at a reasonable altitude, (assuming a good spot). I've done this several times and never encountered a problem. That is not to say that there are no problems to be encountered, just that this has worked for me so far. I'd only do this with people whos abilities and decision making I trust. there you go, one more option to consider. to do is to be to be is to do do be do be do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #34 November 8, 2004 Oooh...that's cool and interesting. Never thought of doing that. Thanks!Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #35 November 8, 2004 QuoteThey must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. How does leaving right after you help avoid that? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #36 November 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteThey must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. How does leaving right after you help avoid that? By "right after" he means allowing a second of seperation on exit. Even a split second after the tandem should be enough seperation because the tandem drops out fast on exit. But for safety, I tell lurkers to leave 1 second after the tandem exit. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #37 November 8, 2004 QuoteHow does leaving right after you help avoid that? Good question. By leaving after I go, I will be 15 or so feet away by the time you leave (in one second I will be 32 feet away)...And I will be behind the plane. My drouge will go away from you, not towards you. Think about a group exiting the plane...They go back and down as soon as they leave. If I pitch the drouge even right out the door it will go away from you. If you leave with me, you might end up over me....think funnel. Did that explain it OK?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #38 November 8, 2004 QuoteDid that explain it OK? It does, but i do have another question. Does that only happen exiting certain aircraft? And where would the lurker be positioned during the exit? The times i've jumped with tandems i've always exited the way the TM told me to. Just trying to see how other people do it. If there's a safer way, i'm all about knowing more. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #39 November 9, 2004 QuoteDoes that only happen exiting certain aircraft? Only on a hovering helicopter would it change. As long as the plane is moving forward and you leave after them, you will be away from the drouge. QuoteAnd where would the lurker be positioned during the exit? I have them get behind the Tandem pair inside the plane...This guarantees that they will leave after me. QuoteThe times i've jumped with tandems i've always exited the way the TM told me to. Just trying to see how other people do it. If there's a safer way, i'm all about knowing more. Doing what the TM says is the best way...You might be a good enough freeflyer that I would let you exit any way you want, as long as you do not have grips on me....I know TM that will let certain people take grips on the pair....I will not. Do what the TM says and you will be fine."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #40 November 9, 2004 QuoteYou might be a good enough freeflyer that I would let you exit any way you want, Surely you didn't mean just a freeflyer. Which ever discipline you are good at, just stay away from the drouge should the TM let you exit with them. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #41 November 9, 2004 QuoteSurely you didn't mean just a freeflyer Actually I did. I know a few freeflyers I would let exit from a front float position in a headdown or sit. Only few people would I let do that. Colon Berry or Pip for example. An RW person I would rather they just follow me out."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #42 November 9, 2004 Personally I have three requirements (In addition to the pre-req that I know the lurker and their abilities). One - Do not take me or my camera out. Two - Stay the hell away from my drogue, bridle, and handles. Three - If you are having trouble with fallrate and cannot be level with or slightly lower than me by 6000 feet, I better see you tracking away. If I look up at 5900 feet and someone is still higher than me and not tracking, they'll get an earful on the ground and never lurk another tandem of mine. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LawnDart21 0 #43 November 9, 2004 I keep it simple, if you are lurking my tandem you either: A) Have the letters AFF on your USPA license. B) Are my videographer C) Are my wife D) Have more jumps than me or E) I've seen you naked. (Females only) Gotta keep a level head in all this, after all, skydiving is still supposed to be fun right? -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Samurai136 0 #29 November 3, 2004 Remember to follow the TI's break-off plan. I have allowed some highly competent skydivers to lurk their friend's tandem. For some reason he decided at break-off that I was not waving off and he was going to dock on the tandem and wave at the camera. I was very pissed and told him he's not lurking any of my tandems. Staying altitude aware ond following the established plan is VERY important. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #30 November 4, 2004 Cool! Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate all the info. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #31 November 8, 2004 Vector requires 500 jumps...I *think* they used to require an instructor rating as well. Strong has no such requirements. Anyone that wants to swoop me: 1. Must have proven to me that they can control themselves in freefall. Some sugested buying the TM a jump...Not a bad idea. But if you were at Zhills, I know you and what you can do so that would not be needed. As a Tandem I am a sitting duck....You need to be able to get away from me, and not hit me. 2. They must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. 3. Approach from ON LEVEL from the FRONT where I can see you. 4. Dock on only the PASSENGER and only if you are on level and in control. And only after I nod you in. 5. Let go of grips and slide back 10 feet at +1000 feet before deployment. Stay away from me. If I signal you to leave...leave right then. 6. After I deploy, track away. 7. STAY AWAY from me under canopy. I know this all sounds anal...But #1...It is me, and #2 I am responsible not only for my life, but my passengers life. I'll let you risk mine to a small degree, but not my passenger."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #32 November 8, 2004 Thanks, Ron! Appreciate the info. See you soon, my friend. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tandemphil 0 #33 November 8, 2004 from what I've read so far in this post, your skydiving skills are up to the task of lurking a tandem, so I won't address that issue. One alternative regarding break-off and opening that I have used when accompanied by both a lurker and vidiot is this: At approx. 6500' I'll wave off the lurker who then tracks in a straight line behind me and dumps at about 5700 or 5500. this allows the vidiot to capture your track and opening for the video. once the vidiot has seen your deployment, he gives me a thumbs up and I'll deploy the tandom canopy somwhere between 5000 and 4500. leaving the video man pleanty of time to film the tandem opening and still open at a reasonable altitude, (assuming a good spot). I've done this several times and never encountered a problem. That is not to say that there are no problems to be encountered, just that this has worked for me so far. I'd only do this with people whos abilities and decision making I trust. there you go, one more option to consider. to do is to be to be is to do do be do be do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #34 November 8, 2004 Oooh...that's cool and interesting. Never thought of doing that. Thanks!Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #35 November 8, 2004 QuoteThey must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. How does leaving right after you help avoid that? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #36 November 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteThey must NOT leave at the same time. They can leave right after me, but I have seen people get hit by a drouge. I can't avoid you. How does leaving right after you help avoid that? By "right after" he means allowing a second of seperation on exit. Even a split second after the tandem should be enough seperation because the tandem drops out fast on exit. But for safety, I tell lurkers to leave 1 second after the tandem exit. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #37 November 8, 2004 QuoteHow does leaving right after you help avoid that? Good question. By leaving after I go, I will be 15 or so feet away by the time you leave (in one second I will be 32 feet away)...And I will be behind the plane. My drouge will go away from you, not towards you. Think about a group exiting the plane...They go back and down as soon as they leave. If I pitch the drouge even right out the door it will go away from you. If you leave with me, you might end up over me....think funnel. Did that explain it OK?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #38 November 8, 2004 QuoteDid that explain it OK? It does, but i do have another question. Does that only happen exiting certain aircraft? And where would the lurker be positioned during the exit? The times i've jumped with tandems i've always exited the way the TM told me to. Just trying to see how other people do it. If there's a safer way, i'm all about knowing more. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #39 November 9, 2004 QuoteDoes that only happen exiting certain aircraft? Only on a hovering helicopter would it change. As long as the plane is moving forward and you leave after them, you will be away from the drouge. QuoteAnd where would the lurker be positioned during the exit? I have them get behind the Tandem pair inside the plane...This guarantees that they will leave after me. QuoteThe times i've jumped with tandems i've always exited the way the TM told me to. Just trying to see how other people do it. If there's a safer way, i'm all about knowing more. Doing what the TM says is the best way...You might be a good enough freeflyer that I would let you exit any way you want, as long as you do not have grips on me....I know TM that will let certain people take grips on the pair....I will not. Do what the TM says and you will be fine."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #40 November 9, 2004 QuoteYou might be a good enough freeflyer that I would let you exit any way you want, Surely you didn't mean just a freeflyer. Which ever discipline you are good at, just stay away from the drouge should the TM let you exit with them. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #41 November 9, 2004 QuoteSurely you didn't mean just a freeflyer Actually I did. I know a few freeflyers I would let exit from a front float position in a headdown or sit. Only few people would I let do that. Colon Berry or Pip for example. An RW person I would rather they just follow me out."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #42 November 9, 2004 Personally I have three requirements (In addition to the pre-req that I know the lurker and their abilities). One - Do not take me or my camera out. Two - Stay the hell away from my drogue, bridle, and handles. Three - If you are having trouble with fallrate and cannot be level with or slightly lower than me by 6000 feet, I better see you tracking away. If I look up at 5900 feet and someone is still higher than me and not tracking, they'll get an earful on the ground and never lurk another tandem of mine. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #43 November 9, 2004 I keep it simple, if you are lurking my tandem you either: A) Have the letters AFF on your USPA license. B) Are my videographer C) Are my wife D) Have more jumps than me or E) I've seen you naked. (Females only) Gotta keep a level head in all this, after all, skydiving is still supposed to be fun right? -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
